The *ultimate* newbie question.

Buck Rogers said:

All things being equal, can a MTB match a roadster in terms of speed?

no
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

It depends how big and chunky the bike is. If it's a total anvil, you might have some problems, and you'll definitely have troubles going up hills.

Here's a site that calculates how certain forces effect speed and output.
You'll notice that weight is not that important on flat ground.
kreuzotter.deespeed.htmOpen ↗

If you're on a flat road, the only things that will noticeably slow you down are the tyres and the non-aero, upright postion

Peter McCallum said:

no
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

beg to differ. I drop roadified commuters all the time
("He's pushing a MONSTER gear..."😉

i run 1.25 100psi specialized slicks which are dang fast.
when pannier-fied its tuff as i tend to carry quite a bit of weight (oh on me too 🙄 ) but the only real holdup is lower gearing when the flat-n-fast get going. the longer cranks dont help to spin fast

Buck Rogers said:

All things being equal, can a MTB match a roadster in terms of speed?

The reason I ask is that I've never been able to keep up with a lycra
rider on a roadster, when I'm riding my mtb.

Ok, I'm a newbie, so my fitness level is not that spectacular, and my
MTB is probably only slightly larger than kid size, so the roadsters
have bigger wheels as an advantage.

However, if you put a the same rider on a mtb, then on a roadster, which
machine would be faster? Why? I know the MTB wheels are about 3 times as
wide as the roadsters, so there's drag(however slight), and more contact
with the ground.

What other factors come into play? Do the roadsters have better gear
ratios?

Just curious, because one day, when my fitness level is at it's peak, I
would like to be able to chase down ALL roadsters on my little MTB. 😉)

Get some narrower tyres and pump thm up to 100 psi and you'll be able to
keep up with them.Pumping up fat tyres to that pressure may split your
rim in half.

Zoom

Buck Rogers said:

All things being equal, can a MTB match a roadster in terms of speed?

The reason I ask is that I've never been able to keep up with a lycra
rider on a roadster, when I'm riding my mtb.

Ok, I'm a newbie, so my fitness level is not that spectacular, and my
MTB is probably only slightly larger than kid size, so the roadsters
have bigger wheels as an advantage.

However, if you put a the same rider on a mtb, then on a roadster, which
machine would be faster? Why? I know the MTB wheels are about 3 times as
wide as the roadsters, so there's drag(however slight), and more contact
with the ground.

What other factors come into play? Do the roadsters have better gear
ratios?

Just curious, because one day, when my fitness level is at it's peak, I
would like to be able to chase down ALL roadsters on my little MTB. 😉)

Greetings,
Apart from rolling resistance, the increased rotating weight of the
heavier wheels, and the heavier frame, I would have thought it would
have been self-evident that an MTB would have no chance of out-running a
racing bike. Fitness is only part of the picture, I don't bother
attempting to out-run these guys on my hybrid as it's a complete waste
of time.
Regards,
Ray

flyingdutch said:

Peter McCallum said:

no
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

beg to differ. I drop roadified commuters all the time
("He's pushing a MONSTER gear..."😉

i run 1.25 100psi specialized slicks which are dang fast.
when pannier-fied its tuff as i tend to carry quite a bit of weight (oh
on me too 🙄 ) but the only real holdup is lower gearing when
the flat-n-fast get going. the longer cranks dont help to spin fast

--
flyingdutch

right but if we're just talking bikes, and not the people driving
them...

.... why don't the tdf riders use mtb's?...

.... road bikes go faster...

Tam

Tamyka Bell said:

.... why don't the tdf riders use mtb's?...

.... road bikes go faster...

Tam

you obviously dont remember Dave Watson, Alp Dewez, '03 😄

flyingdutch said:

Peter McCallum said:

no
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

beg to differ. I drop roadified commuters all the time
("He's pushing a MONSTER gear..."😉

i run 1.25 100psi specialized slicks which are dang fast.
when pannier-fied its tuff as i tend to carry quite a bit of weight (oh
on me too 🙄 ) but the only real holdup is lower gearing when
the flat-n-fast get going. the longer cranks dont help to spin fast

He said, "all things being equal". If you did say a one hour time trial
on a road bike and, under the same conditions, on a MTB, you would
definitely be faster on the road bike. You'd have less weight, wind
resistance, rolling resistance. Maybe you would have the added incentive
to prove the experts wrong on the MTB but I can't think of anything that
would actually make you faster.

Peter (who rides his comfort bike like a turtle)
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

flyingdutch said:

Tamyka Bell said:

.... why don't the tdf riders use mtb's?...

.... road bikes go faster...

Tam

you obviously dont remember Dave Watson, Alp Dewez, '03 😄

Nor does Google
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Peter McCallum said:

>

Quoted message said:

you obviously dont remember Dave Watson, Alp Dewez, '03 😄

Nor does Google
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

you kiddin me?

why does 'my' google work better???

here's one link (out of approx 112)

velonews.com4666.0.htmlOpen ↗

flyingdutch said:

Peter McCallum said:

Quoted message said:

you obviously dont remember Dave Watson, Alp Dewez, '03 😄

Nor does Google
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

you kiddin me?

why does 'my' google work better???

here's one link (out of approx 112)

http://www.velonews.com/race/mtn/articles/4666.0.html

--
flyingdutch

Why does 'my' browser work worse? *crash*

Tam

Buck Rogers said:

All things being equal, can a MTB match a roadster in terms of speed?

No.

For a whole swag of reasons.

Wheel rolling resistance is greater (even with slicks, they drag
more than 700c23's)

They're always heavier (marginal on the flat, but does slightly
increase rolling resistance)

Gearing is a lot lower - you don't have a 53 tooth big ring on
a MTB, so you're never going to get the same top speeds.
flinging a MTB along at 50km/h would call for some
pretty serious cadence!

Aerodynamics - while most road bikes aren't particularly
aerodynamic (compared to a TT bike etc) they are a -lot-
more aero than a sit up and beg with yuor arms out wide MTB
position. Aerodynmaics is the limitingfactor for most high speed
riding. You simply can't get very aerodynamic on a MTB with
standard MTB position and equipment.

Quoted message said:

Just curious, because one day, when my fitness level is at it's peak, I
would like to be able to chase down ALL roadsters on my little MTB. 😉)

If you want to beat the roadies on the road, get a road bike.

The only place a MTB has much of a chance is on an uphill,
and even then, only if it's *Really* steep - where the Uberlow gear
ratios mean yuo can spin up the hill which makes up for the
greater weight.

"Buck Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:opsut1s0qr6fh0xf@buck-lou6cy5bth...

Quoted message said:

All things being equal, can a MTB match a roadster in terms of speed?

The reason I ask is that I've never been able to keep up with a lycra
rider on a roadster, when I'm riding my mtb.

Ok, I'm a newbie, so my fitness level is not that spectacular, and my
MTB is probably only slightly larger than kid size, so the roadsters
have bigger wheels as an advantage.

However, if you put a the same rider on a mtb, then on a roadster, which
machine would be faster? Why? I know the MTB wheels are about 3 times as
wide as the roadsters, so there's drag(however slight), and more contact
with the ground.

What other factors come into play? Do the roadsters have better gear
ratios?

Depends where you're riding. Off road, the mtb will be better. ;^) On road,
schmoadies win out. Light weight (much lighter than mtbs), big gears, no
suspension induced loss of pedalling power (bob), higher pressure tyres, no
knobs (but you can get slicks).

That said, I have beaten schmoadies up hills on road (sure, he mightn't have
known I was racing him, and sure, he might have been nearing the end of a
100 km spin, not near the start of a 10 km blat, but I beat him! ;^) ). I
also noticed the TdF commentators ummm... commenting... that mtb experience
helps schmoadies go down hills faster. I know I overtook a lot on the
downhills last time I entered the Sydney/Gong ride, but again, it wasn't a
race, plus there are lot of inexperienced riders involved.

I do wonder about schmoadie stability on downhills - the guy we passed
heading down Lappo the other day (I was in the car) seemed to be having
trouble holding a line - *lots* of corrections.

But really, it's horses for courses.

Tony F
who should add that he was overtaken off road by a roadie in last year's
Woodford 2 Glenbrook Classic, but got him back when he pinchflatted...

tony f wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I do wonder about schmoadie stability on downhills - the guy we passed
heading down Lappo the other day (I was in the car) seemed to be having
trouble holding a line - *lots* of corrections.

<snip>

The only time I've been faster downhill (onroad) on my mtb than on my
roadie was because of the trouble holding a line - truing my roadie's
wheels did wonders for this problem. The roadie is generally easier and
I think it's because it's rigid. Haven't ridden a full rigid mtb since I
was a kid.

Tam

flyingdutch said:

Peter McCallum said:

Quoted message said:

you obviously dont remember Dave Watson, Alp Dewez, '03 😄

Nor does Google
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

you kiddin me?

why does 'my' google work better???

dunno. i tried "dave watson" "alp dewez" and got nothing. tried "dave
watson" "dewez" and got nothing. tried "dave watson" and got 43,600
pages.

Quoted message said:

here's one link (out of approx 112)

http://www.velonews.com/race/mtn/articles/4666.0.html

crazy man. obviously beat the roadies to the casualty ward.
any photos?
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

tony f said:

I do wonder about schmoadie stability on downhills - the guy we passed
heading down Lappo the other day (I was in the car) seemed to be having
trouble holding a line - *lots* of corrections.

I regularly descend around 75-80km/h with no stability problems on
my roady when cornering. Not all roadbikes are the same geometry
though ...

Big skinny wheels, those funny drop ‘bars, them fancy 10 speed cassettes & big chainwheels, nano weight technology in composite frame construction - Road bike riders have it easy.

Grinding away at a slick-shod MTB doing big miles on the road shows that you’re hard in all the right places (& soft in those not worth worrying about).
😉

Marx SS said:

Big skinny wheels, those funny drop ?bars, them fancy 10 speed cassettes
& big chainwheels, nano weight technology in composite frame
construction - Road bike riders have it easy.

Grinding away at a slick-shod MTB doing big miles on the road shows
that you?re hard in all the right places (& soft in those not worth
worrying about).
😉

--
Marx SS

Really? I thought the way to show you're hard in all the right places
was to leave your knobbies on and take the bugger offroad.

Tam...

developing hard spots from too many bruises from falling off again, and
again, and again...

Marx SS said:

Big skinny wheels, those funny drop ‘bars, them fancy 10 speed cassettes & big chainwheels, nano weight technology in composite frame construction - Road bike riders have it easy.

Grinding away at a slick-shod MTB doing big miles on the road shows that you’re hard in all the right places (& soft in those not worth worrying about).
😉

10 speed cassettes? How about the 27 gears on most MTB's. Are you sure that's enough for you. And bouncy springs to protect your tush and dainty arms. You have it so easy.

How about a single gear. Make that fixed, no brakes. Wooden rims. Solid tires. With a tag-along and a trailer. Now you're talking hard in all the right places. 😉