The Trike Phenomina

Quoted message said:

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

Technical reasons. 20" wheels are stronger then 26" wheels. Most important thing is the ability to
withstand lateral forces which are common on trikes, but are seldom seen on singletrack vehicles.

--
--
Adam Kad³ubek | TTD Site: www.ttdeluxe.strategie.pl uz - a.t - katowice - d.o.t - msk - d.o.t - pl
Nie krêcê ¶redniej 35 kmh ale mam tytanowe ¶rubki ;o)

bentcruiser must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

I was at Stephens Point, WI this last week at the recumbent rally. I had the opportunity to test
ride many bikes I do not have in my area including trikes. The trikes seemed extremely popular as
I saw many on the various rides as well.

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

I go a lot faster on my Burley than my last bent. I would hate to switch to a trike and drip back
to mediocracy.

Incidentally, I do know Windcheetah and ICE make big drive wheeled trikes, but they are out of
my reach.

--
- - - - Derek Burley Canto, modified

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

Take a look at

catrike.comcatrike.comOpen ↗

Good price, great company, superb product.

Ian

bentcruiser said:

I was at Stephens Point, WI this last week at the recumbent rally. I had the opportunity to test
ride many bikes I do not have in my area including trikes. The trikes seemed extremely popular as
I saw many on the various rides as well.

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

I go a lot faster on my Burley than my last bent. I would hate to switch to a trike and drip back
to mediocracy.

Yes, all bikes with small wheels are slow - that is why I easily out coast all uprights and
recumbents with bigger wheels such as the P-38 and GRR on my Sunset.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Quoted message said:

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels >all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

HI Derek, three 20" wheels give the trike a MUCH needed lower CG, which helps keep you from flipping
over when screaming around corners, which is so much fun that everyone winds up doin it at some
point on trikes. Also, a big drive wheel can cause you to nose-dive under heavy braking.

Quoted message said:

I go a lot faster on my Burley than my last bent. I would hate to switch to a trike and drip back
to mediocracy.

Back to mediocracy? Didn't you once say that your BikeE was faster than an Optima Baron or a Faired
GRR? You must be "the man" on that Canto!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shwackman
Back to mediocracy? Didn't you once say that your BikeE was faster than an Optima Baron or a Faired GRR?

No, that was not me. My BikeE was super slow.

bentcruiser <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I go a lot faster on my Burley than my last bent. I would hate to switch to a trike and drip back
to mediocracy.

I don't wish to stir up a hornet's nest but I think it is safe to say that you will be slower on a
trike than you will be on a 2-wheeler ... although sometimes it seems like you are faster on the
trike because you are so low to the ground! I think the main reason to get a trike is for the fun of
it and not having to balance. You can be totally relaxed on a trike like you can never be on a
2-wheeler.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Only advantage I can see is you don't need to carry different sizes of tubes and tires if all 3
whhels are the same size...usually 406mm. I am not going to touch on side rolling with a 559mm
(since I seldom experience it).

Newer trikes favor smaller wheels and OSS...and some with a single tiller. Seems everyone is
trying for the lightest and less complicated machine they can design. First time I saw a Catrike
Speed...kept wondering where are the carrying straps...any smaller and the trike becomes "Carry
On" luggage.

I prefer the "Mother of All" rear wheels on a tadpole...the bigger the better. Bontrager 28s,
Michelin 29s...might even try a Monster 36 inch someday...but I also favor slapping on E-Motors and
the bigger the wheel..the faster you go. Wet Dream = 36 inch wheel on a Dragonflyer with a 1,000
watt E-Motor...just cannot figure out how to mount the parachte to dtop the sucker.
******************************
"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bentcruiser said:

I was at Stephens Point, WI this last week at the recumbent rally. I had the opportunity to test
ride many bikes I do not have in my area including trikes. The trikes seemed extremely popular
as I saw many on the various rides as well.

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most
people here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike.
Is a trike's performance that much better?

I go a lot faster on my Burley than my last bent. I would hate to switch to a trike and drip
back to mediocracy.

Yes, all bikes with small wheels are slow - that is why I easily out coast all uprights and
recumbents with bigger wheels such as the P-38 and GRR on my Sunset.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

bentcruiser said:

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

There are many reasons:

1) Trikes don't lean, so there is a lot of lateral force on the wheels during turns. Smaller wheels
are stronger against lateral force.

2) There's also a lot of stress on the frame during non-leaning turns. Imagine grabbing the bottom
end of the wheel and pulling sideways. A larger wheel gives you more leverage to twist the frame.

3) Trike wheels stick out to the sides, so they are a big source of air resistance. You want to
minimize this by using small wheels. It's less significant on a bike because the frontal area of
the wheels overlap with that of the rider/frame and with each other.

4) A trike should have a low center of mass to avoid flipping over in a tight turn. It's hard to
make a low trike with large wheels.

5) A small rear wheel can be positioned closer to the seat. This improves weight distribution.

6) A large front wheel can't be turned very far before it hits the seat. A smaller front wheel
results in better turning radius. (You can also improve turning radius by making the trike wider,
but that would increase weight and aero drag even further.)

I love big wheels on 2-wheel bikes, but I have no complaints about my 20" Greenspeed. If I were to
buy another trike I'd probably go with 20" rear and 16" front, or 16" all round.

Ken Kobayashi [email hidden] solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jppersonalOpen ↗

Out of my "fleet" the Catrike is extremely quick handling. I rode that old delta for 19 years using
27" 10 speed wheels, but the S&B had a 26", then the 20" Thebis changed my mind; so I decided rim
size wasn't that big a deal! The Catrike Speed 20" wheel is every bit as fast as my old 27s were. It
will not beat my motorized TerraTrike (20"😉 , but will out-manouever (sp) out-stop, and literally
shock people stealthing out of nowhere!

My Optima Rider is a totally different beast. smoooth, heavy- more an imported cruiser. FWIW: it has
a 26" back tire, 27 gears.

Different horses for different courses!

Chris Jordan Santa Cruz. CA.

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Only advantage I can see is you don't need to carry different sizes of tubes and tires if all 3
whhels are the same size...usually 406mm. I am not going to touch on side rolling with a 559mm
(since I seldom experience it).

Newer trikes favor smaller wheels and OSS...and some with a single tiller. Seems everyone is
trying for the lightest and less complicated machine they can design. First time I saw a Catrike
Speed...kept wondering where are the carrying straps...any smaller and the trike becomes "Carry
On" luggage.

I prefer the "Mother of All" rear wheels on a tadpole...the bigger the better. Bontrager 28s,
Michelin 29s...might even try a Monster 36 inch someday...but I also favor slapping on E-Motors
and the bigger the wheel..the faster you go. Wet Dream = 36 inch wheel on a Dragonflyer with a
1,000 watt E-Motor...just cannot figure out how to mount the parachte to dtop the sucker.
******************************
"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bentcruiser said:

I was at Stephens Point, WI this last week at the recumbent rally. I had the opportunity to
test ride many bikes I do not have in my area including trikes. The trikes seemed extremely
popular as I saw many on the various rides as well.

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most
people here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike.
Is a trike's performance that much better?

I go a lot faster on my Burley than my last bent. I would hate to switch to a trike and drip
back to mediocracy.

Yes, all bikes with small wheels are slow - that is why I easily out coast all uprights and
recumbents with bigger wheels such as the P-38 and GRR on my Sunset.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

The big wheel Vs. small wheel on a tadpole trike has always been a controversy.

First, I'll concede that the smaller wheels on the front of a tadpole are a requirement. Side
loading, small turning radius, and less frontal aerodynamic drag are the advantages. However, on the
rear, it is best to have a large diameter wheel, as the issues mentioned above do not apply.

Our current line of trikes are available with either 20 or 24" rear tires. We should start shipping
at the end of this month (we have lead time issues with parts). Next year we plan to release a 26"
version of our trike.

Regards,

Rickey Horwitz hellbentcycles.comhellbentcycles.comOpen ↗

Rickey Horwitz

"bentcruiser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was at Stephens Point, WI this last week at the recumbent rally. I had the opportunity to test
ride many bikes I do not have in my area including trikes. The trikes seemed extremely popular as
I saw many on the various rides as well.

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

I go a lot faster on my Burley than my last bent. I would hate to switch to a trike and drip back
to mediocracy.

Incidentally, I do know Windcheetah and ICE make big drive wheeled trikes, but they are out of
my reach.

--
- - - - Derek Burley Canto, modified

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

Hellbent Rick said:

However, on the rear, it is best to have a large diameter wheel, as the issues mentioned above do
not apply.

I'm no expert but I did back-to-back tests of the Trice Monster and XXL, which are essentially the
same machine, one with a full-size rear wheel and the other with 20" and suspension. The full-size
rear wheel on the Monster was more responsive but the back end was less tight - the longer rear
suspension arms had more flex. When the chips are down I prefer the full-size rear, but the smaller
wheel does appear to have its merits if handling is at a premium.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

whoops...should have been more specific here Ricky. I didn't mean the Trice Monster. There is or was
an Upright bike that came out a couple of years ago using what they called Monster Wheels. These
have 36 inch diameter wheels. Imagine twin 20 inch front wheels and a 36 inch diam. back wheel.
****************************************
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hellbent Rick said:

However, on the rear, it is best to have a large diameter wheel, as the issues mentioned above do
not apply.

I'm no expert but I did back-to-back tests of the Trice Monster and XXL, which are essentially the
same machine, one with a full-size rear wheel and the other with 20" and suspension. The full-size
rear wheel on the Monster was more responsive but the back end was less tight - the longer rear
suspension arms had more flex. When the chips are down I prefer the full-size rear, but the
smaller wheel does appear to have its merits if handling is at a premium.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

I understand that your concerns are confined by your exeperiences with the Trice. However, our
design is not based on the Trice, it is based on my design which places much emphasis on the
stiffness of the rear end of the trike. We have many of our first trikes slated for editorial
review. Therefore, we will allow these reviews to speak in our behalf.

Regards,

Rickey Horwitz

hellbentcycles.comhellbentcycles.comOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hellbent Rick said:

However, on the rear, it is best to have a large diameter wheel, as the issues mentioned above do
not apply.

I'm no expert but I did back-to-back tests of the Trice Monster and XXL, which are essentially the
same machine, one with a full-size rear wheel and the other with 20" and suspension. The full-size
rear wheel on the Monster was more responsive but the back end was less tight - the longer rear
suspension arms had more flex. When the chips are down I prefer the full-size rear, but the
smaller wheel does appear to have its merits if handling is at a premium.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

That would have one heck of a long wheelbase!!!

Rickey Horwitz hellbentcycles.comhellbentcycles.comOpen ↗

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

whoops...should have been more specific here Ricky. I didn't mean the Trice Monster. There is
or was an Upright bike that came out a couple of years ago using what they called Monster
Wheels. These

have

Quoted message said:

36 inch diameter wheels. Imagine twin 20 inch front wheels and a 36 inch diam. back wheel.
****************************************
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hellbent Rick said:

However, on the rear, it is best to have a large diameter wheel, as the issues mentioned above
do not

apply.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm no expert but I did back-to-back tests of the Trice Monster and XXL, which are essentially
the same machine, one with a full-size rear wheel and the other with 20" and suspension. The
full-size rear wheel on the Monster was more responsive but the back end was less tight - the
longer rear suspension arms had more flex. When the chips are down I prefer the full-size rear,
but the smaller wheel does appear to have its merits if handling is at a premium.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

Ken Kobayashi said:

bentcruiser said:

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

There are many reasons:

1) Trikes don't lean, so there is a lot of lateral force on the wheels during turns. Smaller
wheels are stronger against lateral force.

2) There's also a lot of stress on the frame during non-leaning turns. Imagine grabbing the bottom
end of the wheel and pulling sideways. A larger wheel gives you more leverage to twist the
frame.

3) Trike wheels stick out to the sides, so they are a big source of air resistance. You want to
minimize this by using small wheels. It's less significant on a bike because the frontal area
of the wheels overlap with that of the rider/frame and with each other.

Excuse this outsider's question, but given everything you mention, why does anyone want to ride on
_three_ wheels ?

Jacques

The advent of the lowracer has brought the recumbent bike to new levels in high performance.
However, some folks do not feel comfortable balancing a bike with a very low angle seat. A high
performance trike allows the rider to recline 38 degrees or steeper with a seat hieght of only 175mm
from the ground. With weights now below 30 lbs. (13.6 Kg), the trike is becoming a formidable option
to the low racer. Did I mention that they are a real blast to ride?

R. Horwitz

hellbentcycles.comhellbentcycles.comOpen ↗

"jacques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ken Kobayashi said:

bentcruiser said:

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most
people here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike.
Is a trike's performance that much better?

There are many reasons:

1) Trikes don't lean, so there is a lot of lateral force on the wheels during turns. Smaller
wheels are stronger against lateral force.

2) There's also a lot of stress on the frame during non-leaning turns. Imagine grabbing the
bottom end of the wheel and pulling sideways. A larger wheel gives you more leverage to twist
the frame.

3) Trike wheels stick out to the sides, so they are a big source of air resistance. You want to
minimize this by using small wheels. It's less significant on a bike because the frontal area
of the wheels overlap with that of the rider/frame and with each other.

Excuse this outsider's question, but given everything you mention, why does anyone want to ride on
_three_ wheels ?

Jacques

"Our current line of trikes are available with either 20 or 24" rear tires. We should start shipping
at the end of this month (we have lead time issues with parts). Next year we plan to release a 26"
version of our trike."

Regards,

Rickey Horwitz hellbentcycles.comhellbentcycles.comOpen ↗

Rickey will your 26" be in the RS model? Will your RS frame still be heat treated?

"jacques" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Ken Kobayashi said:

bentcruiser said:

My question is why do most of the more common ones use 20" wheels all the way 'round? Most people
here seem to gritch about the smaller wheeled bents but have no problem riding a trike. Is a
trike's performance that much better?

There are many reasons:

1) Trikes don't lean, so there is a lot of lateral force on the wheels during turns. Smaller
wheels are stronger against lateral force.

2) There's also a lot of stress on the frame during non-leaning turns. Imagine grabbing the
bottom end of the wheel and pulling sideways. A larger wheel gives you more leverage to twist
the frame.

3) Trike wheels stick out to the sides, so they are a big source of air resistance. You want to
minimize this by using small wheels. It's less significant on a bike because the frontal area
of the wheels overlap with that of the rider/frame and with each other.

Excuse this outsider's question, but given everything you mention, why does anyone want to ride on
_three_ wheels ?

Jacques

ahhh, a virgin! Let me try... it takes a certain amount of physical and mental effort/energy to
balance on two wheels. Even though it feels perfectly natural and becomes unnoticed, the effort is
still there. All you have to do is watch someone's first efforts on a bike to see that. WHEN you get
on a trike there is a perceptable relaxation that takes place as your mind/body realizes it doesn't
have to worry about balancing on this thing. THAT little bit of extra relaxation SEEMS to translate
into a little extra joy in the riding. It's just a little more fun, and a little less work. Or so it
seems to me. And apparently to almost everyone that gets on a trike, at least most of the ones that
have been on mine.

Good question! The 26" rear wheel was originally intended for a front suspension only version of the
Diablo. The RS is intended to be extremely high performance trike. Although the 26" wheel has a much
better selection of tires and will prove to have superior rolling resistance, the frame will need to
be stronger and require a longer wheel base (~45"😉 with a maximum recline of 38 deg.. If we can keep
the curb weight below 30 lbs. (the RS is
28.7lbs) and the handling is not impaired, it may be designated as an RS. At this moment, we really
don't know where it fits into our strategy.

Regards,

R. Horwitz

hellbentcycles.comhellbentcycles.comOpen ↗

"EdVB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Our current line of trikes are available with either 20 or 24" rear

tires.

Quoted message said:

We should start shipping at the end of this month (we have lead time

issues

Quoted message said:

with parts). Next year we plan to release a 26" version of our trike."

Regards,

Rickey Horwitz hellbentcycles.comhellbentcycles.comOpen ↗

Rickey will your 26" be in the RS model? Will your RS frame still be heat

treated?