The Times on Tammy Thomas

And she has this comment as well:

Being treated as an outcast makes her cringe, but when asked whether steroid
use is wrong, she said: "Is it cheating if everyone does it? I devoted 10
years of my life to this sport. Why me? Why me? Why can other athletes live
a glorified life and my life is tainted forever?"

"Mister Max" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."

It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
- or you could buy the paper.

She's now a power lifter and looks it.

"track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."

--
MisterMax
http://buten.net/max/
(Yes,RemoveDoubles is part of my email address. The double letters in my
last name are not.)

What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
deception, the hopeless lawsuits...

The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob Schwartz

Quoted message said:

What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
deception, the hopeless lawsuits...

The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.

....and still in search of an electric razor that shaves as close as a
blade.

-WG

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
deception, the hopeless lawsuits...

The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

But......she's applying to law school in Mississippi. Reminds me of an old
issue of National Lampoon devoted to lawyers. They had a mock cover of the
Miss. Bar Journal "The Mississippi Bartender. Tending the Needs of the
Mississippi Bar."

"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>...

Quoted message said:

And she has this comment as well:

Being treated as an outcast makes her cringe, but when asked whether steroid
use is wrong, she said: "Is it cheating if everyone does it? I devoted 10
years of my life to this sport. Why me? Why me? Why can other athletes live
a glorified life and my life is tainted forever?"

Look out -- she's likely headed to Law School too.

-Ken

Quoted message said:

"Mister Max"@216.196.97.136...

Quoted message said:

"Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."

It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
- or you could buy the paper.

She's now a power lifter and looks it.

"track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."

Mister Max <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."

It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
- or you could buy the paper.

She's now a power lifter and looks it.

"track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."

very interesting article - thanks for posting this.

-RJ

Mister Max <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous cheers.
Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."

It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's New
York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
- or you could buy the paper.

She's now a power lifter and looks it.

"track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."

That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
that she cheated. She'd rather spend her energy pursuing legal
battles against the people who exposed her for the cheat that she is.

What a pathetic example of humanity.

What a sad and pathetic person the article depicts. And she's now
competing in a sport without dope testing.

It's not hard to understand why Dr. Catlin has her picture posted at
the lab...

Zub

Her delusion can be summed up in one paragraph:

"she occasionally takes ephedra, an adrenaline-like stimulant that has been
linked to cases of heart attack, stroke and sudden death. The sale of
ephedra has been banned by the Food and Drug Administration. "I haven't
taken it in a couple of weeks," she said. "Isn't that good?" "

-T

"burt hoovis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mister Max <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Once one of the world's top sprint cyclists, she rode to raucous

cheers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now, she is still. Once she had Olympic dreams. Now, they are like
delusions. Suspended from competition for life in 2002 after testing
positive for steroids, Tammy Thomas is 34 years old, lonely, all but
broke, and adrift in troubles, most of them her own making."

It's the top story, more than a page long, by Juliet Macur in today's

New

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

York Times. I think you'll need to register to read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/sports/othersports/10thomas.html
- or you could buy the paper.

She's now a power lifter and looks it.

"track cycling delivers little in either attention or money."

That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
that she cheated.

Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes that
all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While she
has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a law
that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice becomes
the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.

She'd rather spend her energy pursuing legal

Quoted message said:

battles against the people who exposed her for the cheat that she is.

Wait till she gets out of law school.........

Quoted message said:

What a pathetic example of humanity.

Among many, and not nearly as bad as some.

B. Lafferty said:

Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes that
all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While she
has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a law
that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice becomes
the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.

IANAL, but the way I know this is as a principle in law that you don't
pass laws which a lot of people won't obey, as enforcing that law leads
to uncontrollability of the executive branch. Basically they then can
chose against whom they apply this law. Like the theory that THEY can
get everyone for breaking tax law, if they really want badly enough. Cf.
Al Capone Tax evasion theory.

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What a sad and disturbing article. The desperation, the capacity for self
deception, the hopeless lawsuits...

The inability and unwillingness to move on... all very sad.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

I feel sorry for her, but she did it to herself. She's not the most
self-aware person in the world. And she still takes drugs, so it makes you
wonder. It's kind of pathetic when someone's life revolves around only one
thing.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And she has this comment as well:

Being treated as an outcast makes her cringe, but when asked whether

steroid

Quoted message said:

use is wrong, she said: "Is it cheating if everyone does it? I devoted 10
years of my life to this sport. Why me? Why me? Why can other athletes

live

Quoted message said:

a glorified life and my life is tainted forever?"

And she is right of course. For instance, a Belgian journalist I know well
has discovered that a female discus-thrower living in Berkeley had been
caught at the Mexican-American border with 800 tablets Winstrol (a steroid
usually only used for horses). Because she claimed it was for personal use
(in fact it was for the whole team) she had only to pay a fine. But of
course the fact that she had been in possession of steroids she was
registered in police records. Nevertheless, she didn't have any trouble, she
wasn't suspended or anything like that and she was free to participate to
the Olympics in Los Angeles - where she won a gold.

Benjo Maso

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
that she cheated.

Quoted message said:

Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes that
all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While she
has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a law
that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice becomes
the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.

That's a [censored] excuse, or rationalization, on her part. She can't
_know_ that everyone else is doping. She does know that it's still
cheating, and rationalizes her own weakness and abuse of herself and
the sport by the "everyone is doing it" defense. If everyone else is
cheating, quitting is more honorable than joining the cheaters - what
is the value of a goal achieved by cheating? Other than getting
yourself on the Wheaties box, which I don't think TT was ever a prime
candidate for.)

It's widely claimed that clean riders retired in the early 90s because
they didn't want to keep up with the EPO abuse they suspected in the
peloton - I think you've cited Hampsten as one, and held him up as an
exemplar. That was more honorable than joining in the EPO blitz, IMO.

Now, if Thomas wanted to complain because she was treated more harshly
than track and field superstars, or baseball players, guilty of similar
abuse, that might have some validity. But blaming her competitors
(anyone remember all the [censored] Witty had to put up with to get to the
Olympics?) and suing Catlin and the testing lab is BS. TT places blame
on the testers rather than on the people who introduced her to the drugs
(whom she could presumably name, which might be interesting).
Unfortunately, it's not clear that she's learned anything.

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

That article made me want to puke about five different times when I
read it. No where does she express an ounce of remorse for the fact
that she cheated.

Quoted message said:

Remorse comes from feeling that what you did was wrong. She believes

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all top competitors are doping, therefore doping isn't cheating. While

she

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has major mental problems, some probably drug induced, she does have a
point. There is an old debate in jurisprudence about the validity of a

law

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that's on the books that nobody obeys. Off the top of my head, I don't
recall the precise legal term for it, but at some point the practice

becomes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the law. So *if* everyone at her level was doping, and that practice is
accepted by the participants, it is no longer cheating.

That's a [censored] excuse, or rationalization, on her part. She can't
_know_ that everyone else is doping.

You do recall that Dickey V. basically said that it was normal preparation
in cycling to use drugs. He didn't consider it cheating. It was
"preparation."

Quoted message said:

She does know that it's still
cheating, and rationalizes her own weakness and abuse of herself and
the sport by the "everyone is doing it" defense.

It's only cheating because those in control of the sport have said it is.
Consider that some claim that those at the top of certain national sports
federations have turned a blind or complicit eye to the use of drugs (UCI
and US Track and Field, East Germany as a few examples)

Quoted message said:

If everyone else is
cheating, quitting is more honorable than joining the cheaters - what
is the value of a goal achieved by cheating?

Or, do as everyone else and make big $$$$$$ which is really the goal. The
evidence would support the argument that "cheating" is quite effective in
acheiving the $$ goal.

Quoted message said:

Other than getting
yourself on the Wheaties box, which I don't think TT was ever a prime
candidate for.)

The pecuniary rewards vary. In TT's case she would have been able to
continue making something resembling a "living" as a cyclist with that
lifestyle intact. With a Gold she might even publish as training
book---wouldn't that have been interesting?

Quoted message said:

It's widely claimed that clean riders retired in the early 90s because
they didn't want to keep up with the EPO abuse they suspected in the
peloton - I think you've cited Hampsten as one, and held him up as an
exemplar. That was more honorable than joining in the EPO blitz, IMO.

A number of riders did retire at the beginning of the 90s. Hampsten did not
retire because of EPO, IIRC. In an interview with Cycling Weekly in the
mid-1990s, he spoke of knowing of drug use early on and deciding, with the
support and encouragement of Dr. Max Testa, to redefine his goals and make
the most of his natural abilities. He did fairly well by anyone's
standards. Many of the others who go out at that time, were of "retirement
age" anyway. Certainly there has been no problem getting new blood in who
are willing to manipulate their blood.

Quoted message said:

Now, if Thomas wanted to complain because she was treated more harshly
than track and field superstars, or baseball players, guilty of similar
abuse, that might have some validity.

She has.

Quoted message said:

But blaming her competitors
(anyone remember all the [censored] Witty had to put up with to get to the
Olympics?) and suing Catlin and the testing lab is BS. TT places blame
on the testers rather than on the people who introduced her to the drugs
(whom she could presumably name, which might be interesting).
Unfortunately, it's not clear that she's learned anything.

I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she did
just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school. She made
her decisions and should just live with them.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she

did

Quoted message said:

just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school.

What makes you think she'll become a trial lawyer?

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she

did

Quoted message said:

just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school.

What makes you think she'll become a trial lawyer?

Because it's easier to be a [censored] trial lawyer than a good lawyer of any
other specialization. I'd be very surprised if she gets into law school, let
alone makes it through.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she did
just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school. She made
her decisions and should just live with them.

The Moral Character Determination form might be the most difficult for
her to "pass" if she does make it through law school. California's is
20+ pages in length. Maybe Mississippi Bar doesn't require something
like that?

-Ken

"K. J. Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I agree with you completely. She should take responsibility for what she

did

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

just like Virenque and Zulle and get on with life. She'll make for an
interesting courtroom presence if she makes it through law school. She

made

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

her decisions and should just live with them.

The Moral Character Determination form might be the most difficult for
her to "pass" if she does make it through law school. California's is
20+ pages in length. Maybe Mississippi Bar doesn't require something
like that?

-Ken

There was a guy back in the late 1970s who went to law school and "forgot"
to put his felony conviction on his application to the school. He got his
JD and suddenly remembered when he applied for NY Bar admission. Don't know
what he's doing now. Maybe practicing somewhere without a license.
As long as she hasn't been charged or convicted of a crime..........Isn't
she really a victim? ;-)