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The thing about pizza...

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
31 December 2003
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6 January 2004
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Jonathan Mason
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  1. ... is not that it is such a great dish, but that it seems to have been so brilliantly marketed that
    people will quite willingly pay relatively high prices for what is basically not much more than
    Welsh rarebit with tomato sauce added. This phenomenon has spread all over the world, thanks in no
    small part to the pax americana, and no doubt one of the benefits the Iraqi people will soon be able
    to enjoy will be take-home pizza.

    The phenomenal international success of pizza is all the more when you think how suprised you would
    be to find international chains of welsh rarebit takeouts and Welsh rarebit multimillionaires.

    My first experience with pizza was not until I was 19 years old. (I must have had a sheltered life.)
    On a midwinter hitchhike to freezing Milan to see an art exhibition (which turned out to be closed
    over the Xmas holidays!) I had my first slice of pizza in a Milanese pizza shop. Offered various
    types of pizza, I chose a slice of the Neapolitano, not having a clue what that meant, but
    apparently it meant 'with anchovies', which turned out to be a good choice, as I love the flavor of
    anchovies.

    My interest in pizza then lay dormant for about 10 years until I first came to the United States and
    somehow found myself buying pizza, though I don't remember the circumstances. I was asked what
    topping I wanted, so I asked what was available. The girl (or was it a boy?) said that they had
    everything, so I asked for anchovies, which, of course, were not available--and hardly ever are in
    pizza places in the US, though it is a different story in Italian restaurants in the US.

    Recently I decided to make some pizza. Actually I think I made some a few years ago, but it turned
    out less than stellar as the crust was too doughy. So I looked for some recipes, and it struck me
    that it might be better to go with a batter-based dough recipe than a yeast dough-based one, as this
    should produce a crisper crust.

    I found this recipe for the crust on the Internet and made up the batter. Apparently it is called
    'Krazy Crust' and is attributed to B. Crocker, so I guess it is more or less in the public domain.

    1-1/2 cups flour
    1/2 tsp. baking powder 1 tsp. salt
    2/8 tsp. pepper
    3/3 cup milk 2 eggs, beaten

    I also added a tablespoon of chopped garlic.

    I olive oiled a 14" chef's pan that I have, and poured in the batter. (The chef's pan is about $14
    from Wal*Mart and is indispensible, in my opinion.)

    With the oven at 425 degrees, I set the pan at the top of the oven, and withdrew it after 12
    minutes, when the crust was a light gold color. So far, so good.

    Then for the top part I took a jar of Bertolli Mediterranean Olive pasta sauce with Sundried
    Tomatoes and spread about 1/3 of the 26 oz jar on the dough.

    This looked OK, so I then grated up a piece of leftover aged Cheddar cheese (Black Diamond from
    Sam's Club, I believe) and scattered that on top of the tomato stuff. I know that pizza usually
    uses a lot of mozzarella cheese, but I didn't have any, and anyway that stuff always seems pretty
    tasteless to me. Then I looked in the cupboard to see what else I could add, and found some
    Parmesan cheese, which had probably never been anywhere near Parma, but added a bit of an
    Italianesque ambience to the dish. Then I ground some pepper onto the top, and after a last look
    around the kitchen, I had a sense that perhaps some oregano would not go amiss, so I shook some of
    that onto it too.

    Now I put the whole lot into the oven at the same temperature and left it there 10 minutes, until
    all the cheese was melted.

    Results? Pretty depressing, because this ad hoc concoction turned out to be about as good as any
    pizza I had ever had, and certainly much better than what you would get from Domino's or one of the
    other pizza franchises. It had a great aroma, zesty flavor, and the crust was excellent--nice and
    crisp, but not hard to chew, and not soggy in the middle like those pizzas you buy at pizza places.

    Opportunities for improvement? Next time I will add some anchovy paste to the crust batter, or
    perhaps some Thai fish sauce will do the trick. Possibly I will make the pasta sauce from scratch,
    though I am not sure that this would make it taste any better. I don't know whether toppings will
    improve it much. Some nice juicy black olives might give it more plate appeal, but I would think
    that mushrooms and things would just be overwhelmed by the flavor of the cheese and tomatoes.
    Pepperoni? No, no, NO!

    The jar of pasta sauce cost $1.80, and it will make 3 pizzas, so that is pretty good value. I
    probably put $1 worth of cheese into it too. You can figure out the cost of the crust yourself, but
    I suppose the whole thing cost less than $2.50 (plus electricity).

  2. Real pizza can be sublime. The stuff marketed as pizza in the US is for the most part a completely
    different animal than true pizza , and IMO is usually consistently unnapealling. But real Italian
    pizza, whether Neopolitan style (with a thin, tender crust) or Roman style (with the thin crackery
    crust you like) is fantastic, and is all about the crust rather than the toppings.

    Quoted message said:

    ... is not that it is such a great dish, but that it seems to have been so brilliantly marketed
    that people will quite willingly pay relatively high prices for what is basically not much more
    than Welsh rarebit with tomato sauce added. This phenomenon has spread all over the world, thanks
    in no small part to the pax americana, and no doubt one of the benefits the Iraqi people will soon
    be able to enjoy will be take-home pizza.

  3. CapnFntasy said:

    Real pizza can be sublime. The stuff marketed as pizza in the US is for the most part a completely
    different animal than true pizza , and IMO is usually consistently unnapealling. But real Italian
    pizza, whether Neopolitan style (with a thin, tender crust) or Roman style (with the thin crackery
    crust you like) is fantastic, and is all about the crust rather than the toppings.

    Quoted message said:

    ... is not that it is such a great dish, but that it seems to have been so brilliantly marketed
    that people will quite willingly pay relatively high prices for what is basically not much more
    than Welsh rarebit with tomato sauce added. This phenomenon has spread all over the world, thanks
    in no small part to the pax americana, and no doubt one of the benefits the Iraqi people will soon
    be able to enjoy will be take-home pizza.

    You missed the boat. It is about the friends you are sharing this pizza with and the freshest
    possible ingredients in a warm and hospitable environment. What a waste of your trip to Italy. Oh,
    you didn't go? Or were you winoed out?

    jim

  4. x-no-archive: yes

    IMO, pasta sauce from a jar (or any kind of pasta sauce) isn't really designed for topping pizza.
    Mix that with cheddar cheese and-- yeah, you do have a Welsh rabbit.

    I do like the pizza in Rome better than anywhere else-- and there are so many varieties of it-- but
    with a decent oven people approximate it OK in the US. At least one place even grills it.

    Naomi D.

  5. (CapnFntasy) said:

    Real pizza can be sublime. The stuff marketed as pizza in the US is for the most part a completely
    different animal than true pizza , and IMO is usually consistently unnapealling. But real Italian
    pizza, whether Neopolitan style (with a thin, tender crust) or Roman style (with the thin crackery
    crust you like) is fantastic, and is all about the crust rather than the toppings.

    Armageddon tired of "only imitation food in the US." Yes, the giant chains market fast-food
    versions, but there are many, many other pizzas available inside US boundries, from those
    indistinguisable from their Italian counterparts to California-style 'new age' veg creations. (Which
    may not be Italian, but are mighty tasty.)

    There is a vanishingly small number of recipes for *anything* that have not undergone considerable
    change over time and distance. Pizza is far from a single "authentic" recipe. "Real...true pizza" is
    entirely in the eye (or taste preferences, or even memory) of the diner.

  6. Hi Capn, Do you know how to make a good Naples style crust? I travelled there last year and have
    been craving the real thing ever since, but can't find it where I live. I figured I might as well
    make it. Any suggestions?

    Thanks!

    Dina

    [email hidden] (CapnFntasy) wrote in message news:<20031231013330.09540.00001804@mb-
    m17.aol.com>...

    Quoted message said:

    Real pizza can be sublime. The stuff marketed as pizza in the US is for the most part a completely
    different animal than true pizza , and IMO is usually consistently unnapealling. But real Italian
    pizza, whether Neopolitan style (with a thin, tender crust) or Roman style (with the thin crackery
    crust you like) is fantastic, and is all about the crust rather than the toppings.

    Quoted message said:

    ... is not that it is such a great dish, but that it seems to have been so brilliantly marketed
    that people will quite willingly pay relatively high prices for what is basically not much more
    than Welsh rarebit with tomato sauce added. This phenomenon has spread all over the world, thanks
    in no small part to the pax americana, and no doubt one of the benefits the Iraqi people will
    soon be able to enjoy will be take-home pizza.

  7. Naomi Darvell said:

    x-no-archive: yes

    IMO, pasta sauce from a jar (or any kind of pasta sauce) isn't really designed for topping pizza.
    Mix that with cheddar cheese and-- yeah, you do have a Welsh rabbit.

    I do like the pizza in Rome better than anywhere else-- and there are so many varieties of it--
    but with a decent oven people approximate it OK in the US. At least one place even grills it.

    Naomi D.

    Please; a real quick meal for my kids is a pita loaf, topped with some jar sauce and grated mutz.
    They have fun preparing and eating it, and we get a break from having to elaborate a lunch every
    single day. Especially my eldest whose diet consists of spaghetti with "white" sauce, or KFC--I
    don't believe in forcing them to eat something they don't like. My youngest one is more of a
    vegetarian, with an occasional morsel of veal or chicken. She can sit and down a whole C salad and
    still beg for more. I've never seen an 11 year old like greens and salads so much.

    Anyway, they both like the "pitzas", and it's more healthier than fast food.

    Happy New Year to all!

    Rich

    --
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

  8. CapnFntasy said:

    Neopolitan pizza is traditionally cooked in either a wood burning or coal oven, which yields
    infernal temperatures of 900 degrees. It's this high heat and quick cooking time that allows
    Neopolitan crust to be ethereally light and tender. To replicate it at home, use an oven stone. It
    still won't be quite as light and tender as a true Neopolitan, and takes longer to bake, but it
    does yield very good results. Another thing that makes a huge difference is 00 flour, which can be
    found at Italian markets. It is a low gluten flour, which creates a tender dough. If you can't
    find 00 flour, you can approximate it with a combination of 1 cup cake flour (not self-rising) and
    2 1/2 to 3 cups AP flour for the recipe below.

    Neopolitan Pizza Dough

    1 teaspoon active dry yeast 1 1/4 cups warm water (105 to 115 degrees F) 3 1/2-4 cups 00 flour 2
    teaspoons salt Olive oil for the bowl
    1. Sprinkle the yeast over the water. Let stand 1 minute, or until the yeast is creamy. Stir
    until the yeast dissolves.

    2. In a large bowl, combine the cake flour, 2 1/2 cups of the all-purpose flour, and the salt.
    Add the yeast mixture and stir until a soft dough forms. Turn the dough out onto a lightly
    floured surface and knead, adding more flour if necessary, until smooth and elastic, about 10
    minutes.

    3. Lightly coat a large bowl with oil. Place the dough in the bowl, turning it to oil the top.
    Cover with plastic wrap. Place in a warm, draft-free place and let rise until doubled in bulk,
    about 1 1/2 hours.

    4. Flatten the dough with your fist. Cut the dough into 2 to 4 pieces and shape the pieces into
    balls. Dust the tops with flour.

    5. Place the balls on a floured surface and cover each with plastic wrap, allowing room for the
    dough to expand. Let rise 60 to 90 minutes, or until doubled.

    6. Thirty to sixty minutes before baking the pizzas, place a baking stone or unglazed quarry
    tiles on a rack in the lowest level of the oven. Turn on the oven to the maximum temperature,
    500 or 550 degrees F.

    7. Shape the pizzas by stretching with the base of your palm or by roting your knuckles. Do not
    use a rolling pin. Try to obtain pizzas that are about 10 inches in diameter.

    8. Add crushed tomatoes, fresh choped mozzarella, olive oil, and whole basil leaves.

    9. Sprinkly some flour on pre-heated stone and with peel transfer pizza to stone.

    10. Bake for about 3-5 minutes (or longer if you loaded the pizza with toppings).

    -Suzin

    I agree 100% with your recipe.... I would like to add:

    It may take little longer than 5 minutes. To see if the pizza is ready lift one side and check
    the bottom.

    The crushed or finely chopped tomatoes can be seasoned with salt and pepper. I like to add the
    chopped fresh mozzarella (well drained) after about 2-3 minutes, and the fresh basil leaves when I
    remove the pizza from the oven.

    Ciao,

    Anna Maria

    www.annamariavolpi.com

  9. PENMART01 said:
    Richard Periut said:

    My youngest one is more of a vegetarian. I've never seen an 11 year old like greens and salads
    so much.

    Anyway, they both like the "pitzas", and it's more healthier than fast food.

    Um, "more healthier"?!?!? I sure hope that kid hasn't your genes... probably

    Quoted message said:

    ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon
    ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

    Listen up mutant:

    A pita loaf, skim mutz, and a tomato paste sauce is not healthier than KFC and the like?

    Sheldon, you started drinking early again!!! Geez! Cant you wait till dusk!

    UPS driver? Hmm. Both my kids have light blue eyes, and me and my wife have brown. It's
    possible; however my eldest is my spittin image (with the eyes different,) and my youngest has
    some of my features.

    guarantee you that they day I do, I'll have a continuos source of it for free ; ) But I speculate by
    then, they'll have more powerful stuff.

    Happy New Year to you and your family (if you have one.)

    Rich

    --
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

  10. (CapnFntasy) said:

    yep, I don't disagree with that. I love a good NY style pizza and have had some chicago styles
    that, while I don't usually go for them, were very tasty. Alls I was saying was that a lot of pizza
    here has been mutilated to the point where it's understandable that the OP thinks it sucks, because
    it's mostly of the Dominoes, Pizza Hut, etc. variety.

    Well, the OP was making pizza batter (crust) and considering adding anchovie paste to that. :-) Not
    to say this might not be an interesting variation. What *is* pizza? Some kind of flatbread, ranging
    from an inch-thick "deep dish" to a cracker...covered or lightly sauced with tomato something or
    simply brushed with olive oil...topped with one or a dozen combinations of veg, meat, and/or
    herbs...with or without a wilderness of sliced or shredded cheese things. The OP also complained
    about a lack of anchovies, which in my experience are a commonly available topping.

    I've been on an "authentic" crusade recently, which colors my views. I have 3 data points (2 Beijing
    natives and one visitor) who prefer Peking(sic) Duck in Palo Alto over that in the Home Country. I
    have never traveled to renowned foodie sites outside the US (although I had a lot of good food in
    London). I don't like being pushed into a chauvinist corner, nor do I believe American-Italian, or
    -Chinese or -Thai is equal to or "just the same as" the original stuff, but I fail to understand how
    an Italian or Chinese or Thai cook immediately begins cooking pale imitations once he/she steps onto
    US shores rather than cleverly adapting local ingredients to ancient recipes.

    I won't/don't want to defend the excesses of Pizza Hut, nor any fast food chains that sell pop food
    coming from cans and plastic bags and freezer cartons delivered on the Big Truck. What I object to
    is wholesale condemnation of *everything* produced in the US as bogus.

    Which you didn't, really. As long as we can agree that one doesn't have to travel to Naples to have
    a good pizza-type meal, however pleasant that might be, I'll try to smooth my feathers down. :-)

  11. [email hidden] (Jonathan Mason) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    quite willingly pay relatively high prices for what is basically not much more than Welsh rarebit
    with tomato sauce added.

    Huh? Welsh rarebit with tomato sauce? Is this what you're calling the toppings or the sauce or what?
    Welsh rarebit is a thick cheese sauce. I haven't ever had a piece of pizza with anything like welsh
    rarebit on it. Not even the consistency or flavor of it.

  12. PENMART01 said:
    In article said:
    PENMART01 said:

    Richard Periut writes:

    >My youngest one is more of a vegetarian. I've never seen an 11 year old like greens and salads
    >so much.
    >
    >Anyway, they both like the "pitzas", and it's more healthier than fast food.

    Um, "more healthier"?!?!? I sure hope that kid hasn't your genes...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    A pita loaf, skim mutz, and a tomato paste sauce is not healthier than KFC and the like?

    Geeze, you truely are an ignorant [censored]. Didja know that the average normal human being uses 10%
    of their brain, but you only use 1% of your brain... and your brain is only 10% as large as the
    average normal brain... meaning yours is truly a pea brain... "more healthier"!

    Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

    ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon
    ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

    Sheldon, I've told you to check your lithium levels; it seems you are in manic phase today.

    HNY,

    Rich

    --
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

  13. Wot youz uze fer a brain, dikhed?

    PENFART01 said:


    In article said:
    PENMART01 said:

    Richard Periut writes:

    >My youngest one is more of a vegetarian. I've never seen an 11 year old like greens and salads
    >so much.
    >
    >Anyway, they both like the "pitzas", and it's more healthier than fast food.

    Um, "more healthier"?!?!? I sure hope that kid hasn't your genes...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    A pita loaf, skim mutz, and a tomato paste sauce is not healthier than KFC and the like?

    Geeze, you truely are an ignorant [censored]. Didja know that the average normal human being uses 10%
    of their brain, but you only use 1% of your brain... and your brain is only 10% as large as the
    average normal brain... meaning yours is truly a pea brain... "more healthier"!

    Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

    ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon
    ```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  14. To learn pizza, get Peter Reinheart's new book "American Pie", then, you can make your own pizza and
    astound your family and friends. Pizza is its own food group. I know, I make an awesome pizza.

  15. [email hidden] (Carmen Dioxide) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Jonathan Mason) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    quite willingly pay relatively high prices for what is basically not much more than Welsh
    rarebit with tomato sauce added.

    Huh? Welsh rarebit with tomato sauce? Is this what you're calling the toppings or the sauce or
    what? Welsh rarebit is a thick cheese sauce. I haven't ever had a piece of pizza with anything
    like welsh rarebit on it. Not even the consistency or flavor of it.

    Welsh rarebit can be made in various different ways, but in its simplest format it is just melted
    cheese on toast, which is basically what pizza is, with some additions. The other big difference is
    that pizza is a multi-billion dollar industry, whereas Welsh rarebit is a snack.

  16. On 5 Jan 2004 10:59:22 -0800, [email hidden] (Jonathan Mason)

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Carmen Dioxide) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Jonathan Mason) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    quite willingly pay relatively high prices for what is basically not much more than Welsh
    rarebit with tomato sauce added.

    Huh? Welsh rarebit with tomato sauce? Is this what you're calling the toppings or the sauce or
    what? Welsh rarebit is a thick cheese sauce. I haven't ever had a piece of pizza with anything
    like welsh rarebit on it. Not even the consistency or flavor of it.

    Welsh rarebit can be made in various different ways, but in its simplest format it is just melted
    cheese on toast, which is basically what pizza is, with some additions. The other big difference is
    that pizza is a multi-billion dollar industry, whereas Welsh rarebit is a snack.

    Well, except that rarebit is more a gently-cooked savory sauce using cheddar-type cheese that's
    draped over a piece of toast or English(sic) muffin, and pizza is a yeast dough baked at high
    temperature together with various sauces and meat/veg additions and one or more Italian cheeses that
    melt but don't combine with the sauce, yes, of *course* they're the same thing. So is a grilled
    cheese sandwich -- bread, cheese, and heat.

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