The Taliban are after Valverde!

Big deal. The readers of the Philadelphia Enquirer, which is known as a hotbed of international pro cycling fans, will make a difference. 🙄

The fan base (and sponsorship base) of cycling is and remains Europe. Having to call out the army to control the crowds on the Tre Cime proves that the appeal remains. The error has been the attempt of UCI to turn cycling ' global '.

Powerful Pete said:

Big deal. The readers of the Philadelphia Enquirer, which is known as a hotbed of international pro cycling fans, will make a difference. 🙄

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very, very good.

Powerful Pete said:

The fan base (and sponsorship base) of cycling is and remains Europe. Having to call out the army to control the crowds on the Tre Cime proves that the appeal remains. The error has been the attempt of UCI to turn cycling ' global '.

Correct - the number of people on the Zoncolan finish was huge.
ES took some aerial shots of the crowds leaving at the end of the stage
and there was a huge number of people.

And I agree, the UCI's trying to turn this sport in to a global commodity has been a huge part of recent problems in the sport.

limerickman said:

And I agree, the UCI's trying to turn this sport in to a global commodity has been a huge part of recent problems in the sport.

That has not been a problem. The UCI allowing doping to be part of the sport has been the problem. The "sport" is not just a European sport. In the US we have 60,000 members of our cycling organization. Australia also can claim some similar numbers.
It is the outsiders who are trying to clean the sport up....... T-M who is American controlled and American owned CSC. And Discovery has not been in the news over OP either or any other scandal other then hiring Basso. Only in the forums have they been convicted of anything.
The riders would never want to go back to the days when they were underpaid and treated like [censored]. They were slaves to the team owners. And that was up until Lemond's time. I will give Lemond credit for that. He did more for the riders then anyone since.
What is hurting the sport is the handling of this mess by the power organizers. There is no consistency to anything. Doping is in all professional sports. It's just that cycling has had it's name dragged through the mud on this issue.
The sport was far dirtier in other regards prior to the 1980's. Races given to certain riders, the altering of results to favor nationalism, the stories go on and on.........
Today is nothing but business as usual.

Pro cycling is European. This comes from the history of the sport (and yes, I am familiar with the popularity of racing in the US at the turn of the last century). All the classics, all the monuments, are all European. Australians and North American riders have always been welcome here, but that is not the focus of the sport. In the 50s/60s the Algerians and some African nations produced quality riders also. But the focus remained here. The point is also not the actual number of riders signed up in the national federation, but the people who follow the sport. I wonder whether (although I hope that I am wrong) cycling in the US will remain relatively popular following the retirement of Mr. Armstrong. After all, apparently there are now several very good European players in the NBA, and basketball is quite popular here in Italy. But no one pretends that we will be taking over the game!

I don't follow the references to Lemond. The big changes were already happening when he began to become an important rider. What is he alleged to have done that was so special? I have never come across anything regarding this... but please point me in the right direction, I am curious.

And also, I do not follow your allegations concerning doping in pro cycling. Am I to believe that T-Mobile, CSC and Discovery are leading the way to a clean peloton?

Now now, you know better than that. CSC sponsors Bjarne's team. A rider whose nickname was 'Mr. 60%' while he was still riding. Come on. And now T-Mobile has turned over a new leaf, and is completely new and absolutely clean. After the whole world knew about the doping.

On Discovery you got me. But you must admit that it does seem strange that exclusvely through training in Texas, making fun of European girly-riders and extra hard dedication and training Lance was able to trounce everyone at the tour, year in and year out. When it is clear that everyone else was doped to the gills. A true superman.

wolfix said:

That has not been a problem. The UCI allowing doping to be part of the sport has been the problem.

Agreed - the UCI indulged doping in order to have faster times, to attract more sponsors, to globalise the sport.
Verbruggen stated that it was the UCI's objective to "globalise" cycling.

What he didn't admit was that to do this required riders riding faster - and to dope.

wolfix said:

The "sport" is not just a European sport. In the US we have 60,000 members of our cycling organization. Australia also can claim some similar numbers.

Europe is the home of cycling.
Yes, there may be a lot of people cycling in the USA and other places but realistically, cycling is tiny compared to the generic sports in the USA and other places.
Cycling is huge in countries like Italy, France, Belgium - and it holds it's own compared to football, rugby, F1.
Cycling in the US, for example, cannot compete with Baseball or American Football.

wolfix said:

It is the outsiders who are trying to clean the sport up....... T-M who is American controlled and American owned CSC. And Discovery has not been in the news over OP either or any other scandal other then hiring Basso. Only in the forums have they been convicted of anything.

Look because TMO is headed up by an American - that doesn't make TMO American.
If I tried to contend that Heinz was Irish because Tony O'Reilly ran H J Heinz for 37 years, I'd rightly derided.
Taking that logic, Chevron isn't an American company - it's Irish!
Dave O'Reilly Chevron's CEO is from Blackrock and is Irish.
C'mon.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2006-06-13-chevron-usat_x.htm

wolfix said:

The riders would never want to go back to the days when they were underpaid and treated like [censored]. They were slaves to the team owners. And that was up until Lemond's time. I will give Lemond credit for that. He did more for the riders then anyone since.

Agreed.

wolfix said:

What is hurting the sport is the handling of this mess by the power organizers. There is no consistency to anything. Doping is in all professional sports. It's just that cycling has had it's name dragged through the mud on this issue.
The sport was far dirtier in other regards prior to the 1980's.

Personally I don't think that the sport was dirtier prior to the 1980's.
I don't think that it was whiter than white, let me add.

I think that the sport has become far more devious and corrupt since the late
1980's.

wolfix said:

Races given to certain riders, the altering of results to favor nationalism, the stories go on and on.........
Today is nothing but business as usual.

I think you hit on a crucial point.
Some people tried to allege that riders like Armstrong were setup over the doping issue and that this was down to nationalism.

Nationalism is particularly strong where there are neighbouring countries.
Spain and France are neighbouring countries.
France and Belgium are neighbouring countries.
How come neither Indurain or Merckx fell victim to the French sense of dented nationalism??????
Neither of them were "set up" and they both dominated France's greatest race.

Powerful Pete said:

Pro cycling is European. This comes from the history of the sport (and yes, I am familiar with the popularity of racing in the US at the turn of the last century). All the classics, all the monuments, are all European. Australians and North American riders have always been welcome here, but that is not the focus of the sport. In the 50s/60s the Algerians and some African nations produced quality riders also. But the focus remained here. The point is also not the actual number of riders signed up in the national federation, but the people who follow the sport. I wonder whether (although I hope that I am wrong) cycling in the US will remain relatively popular following the retirement of Mr. Armstrong. After all, apparently there are now several very good European players in the NBA, and basketball is quite popular here in Italy. But no one pretends that we will be taking over the game!

I don't follow the references to Lemond. The big changes were already happening when he began to become an important rider. What is he alleged to have done that was so special? I have never come across anything regarding this... but please point me in the right direction, I am curious.

And also, I do not follow your allegations concerning doping in pro cycling. Am I to believe that T-Mobile, CSC and Discovery are leading the way to a clean peloton?

Now now, you know better than that. CSC sponsors Bjarne's team. A rider whose nickname was 'Mr. 60%' while he was still riding. Come on. And now T-Mobile has turned over a new leaf, and is completely new and absolutely clean. After the whole world knew about the doping.

On Discovery you got me. But you must admit that it does seem strange that exclusvely through training in Texas, making fun of European girly-riders and extra hard dedication and training Lance was able to trounce everyone at the tour, year in and year out. When it is clear that everyone else was doped to the gills. A true superman.

Pete's got his flame thrower working today. Don't let the goof balls get to you. The articles above were from sports writers, their focus is to pick at scabs, stir controversy, paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa....etc. The Mona Lisa is European too, Italian in fact.... (but lives in France)

lw

lwedge said:

Pete's got his flame thrower working today. Don't let the goof balls get to you. The articles above were from sports writers, their focus is to pick at scabs, stir controversy, paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa....etc. The Mona Lisa is European too, Italian in fact.... (but lives in France)

lw

Audrey Tautou is French and she has a little moustache... at least she did in "Dirty Pretty Things" (that was her first English-speaking role I think, she played a Turkish illegal alien in London) - there was a scene where she was bleaching it. She made a great Princess Sophie too in "The Da Vinci Code" where she did some acting next to The Mona Lisa (O Lame Saint!) - the book was better than the movie except for it didn't have Audrey Tautou. I think she's a lot like Audrey Hepburn who is perhaps the most beautiful woman ever to walk the earth and she didn't have a moustache as far as I know.

I had a Persian girlfriend once, she was hairy all over and she spoke French. Did you know the Farsi word for butt hole is "kuun"? Don't ask me how I know.

lwedge said:

Pete's got his flame thrower working today. Don't let the goof balls get to you. The articles above were from sports writers, their focus is to pick at scabs, stir controversy, paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa....etc. The Mona Lisa is European too, Italian in fact.... (but lives in France)

lw

Yes, it was a bad day. Apologies. :o

DiabloScott said:

I had a Persian girlfriend once, she was hairy all over and she spoke French. Did you know the Farsi word for butt hole is "kuun"? Don't ask me how I know.

That was no chick dude.

Europe may have cycling but we got NASCAR and look at our beautiful Rosie. She is better than any terrorist leader..............
What was my point...oh yeah, the UCI's inconsistent handling of various problem have led cycling down the path of destruction.
One day they are rabid outspoken slayers of the doping dragon and the next day they have no balls.
Money corrupts!

What a crock all these main stream sportswriters blasting cycling while they ignore what they know is going on in true BIG money ball sports.

jhuskey said:

Rosie

Jeezus H! That picture is hideous.

lwedge said:

Jeezus H! That picture is hideous.

Well,she looks better with makeup.

limerickman said:

....Verbruggen stated that it was the UCI's objective to "globalise" cycling.

What he didn't admit was that to do this required riders riding faster - and to dope.....

This makes no sense.
How does riders going 5% faster give the sport global appeal?
.
Is it 5%? Maybe 10%? Whatever... those kind of differences do nothing to increase the appeal of cycling. Cycling is all about herculean effort. A few upticks in overall speed add nothing to the sport.

Durangodave said:

This makes no sense.
How does riders going 5% faster give the sport global appeal?
.
Is it 5%? Maybe 10%? Whatever... those kind of differences do nothing to increase the appeal of cycling. Cycling is all about herculean effort. A few upticks in overall speed add nothing to the sport.

I have been trying to convince people that a 10% increase is about the normal for a talent cyclist for a while now, but most want to believe that dope doubles your speed.
10% in endurance and overall speed is however enough to make a signifigant difference in a multi-stage race with a lot of climbing and TT's.
You don't need a transfusion to ride in the pack.

jhuskey said:

You don't need a transfusion to ride in the pack.

You don't need a transfusion to ride in the pack, you need lettuce to win the Tour. How has Valverde maintained his non-implicated Puerto status? (see quote below from: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun06news2
Yesterday, in an interview with L'Equipe, the 29 year-old Manzano talked about Caisse d'Epargne's Alejandro Valverde. "We want to believe that maybe he was the only Kelme cyclist that raced on lettuce alone; it is clear that he is up to his neck in the Fuentes event," said Manzano of his former Kelme teammate.

Valverde is allegedly linked to Operación Puerto, under the code name 'VALV. (PITI)' and the number '18' but he has steadfastly denied ever having any relationships with Fuentes.

Rolfrae said:

How has Valverde maintained his non-implicated Puerto status?

Because his team & the authorities in Spain don't want him implicated. Most of the Spanish riders who took a fall were riding for foreign teams and now are on Spanish teams (e.g. Sevilla, Mancebo, etc.). Everything seems business as usual in Spanish cycling.

Rolfrae said:

You don't need a transfusion to ride in the pack, you need lettuce to win the Tour. How has Valverde maintained his non-implicated Puerto status? (see quote below from: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun06news2
Yesterday, in an interview with L'Equipe, the 29 year-old Manzano talked about Caisse d'Epargne's Alejandro Valverde. "We want to believe that maybe he was the only Kelme cyclist that raced on lettuce alone; it is clear that he is up to his neck in the Fuentes event," said Manzano of his former Kelme teammate.

Valverde is allegedly linked to Operación Puerto, under the code name 'VALV. (PITI)' and the number '18' but he has steadfastly denied ever having any relationships with Fuentes.

No argument here.

jhuskey said:

No argument here.

Manzano is more damaging, he said to L'Equipe something like :

"What do you think of cycling today?
It was my dream, my life but now I'm completely indifferent with it. How could it be otherwise? When I see Valverde, Mancebo or Sevilla winning, I know what is going on. And that kills my love for the sport. Cycling is corrupt. You can see that on the side of the roads there's nobody left backing up cyclists except for TDF. Even cows are not duped.
He has some strong words against Spanish cycling full of corruption. He speaks about how pro-team were warned for the testing by corrupted member of Spanish Federation, how were helped team to beat test by accredited Lab !!!!!!