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The Role of Exercise

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21 July 2005
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Pete
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  1. I've been wondering about this lately. What is the view on how exercise
    assists low-carb weight loss. Is it simply a matter of calories burnt or
    are there other metabolic effects. For instance, I could imagine that
    regular exercise could increase the efficiency of energy expenditure.
    The reason I ask is that I have struggled to find time to exercise
    regularly over the last few weeks (aerobic-type) and continue to lose
    weight, albeit probably at a slower rate. All speculation, conjecture,
    and even informed opinions are welcome.
    --
    All the best,
    Pete

    ------------------------------------------------
    Home Page: http://users.bigpond.com/lansma
    Location: 42°53'S; 147°19'E

  2. Regular exercise can help keep your T3 levels up to par, and also give your
    body a reason to hold on to muscle tissue. Weight-bearing exercise does
    these things better than aerobic-type exercise.

    --

    Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

    --
    "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've been wondering about this lately. What is the view on how exercise
    assists low-carb weight loss. Is it simply a matter of calories burnt or
    are there other metabolic effects. For instance, I could imagine that
    regular exercise could increase the efficiency of energy expenditure.
    The reason I ask is that I have struggled to find time to exercise
    regularly over the last few weeks (aerobic-type) and continue to lose
    weight, albeit probably at a slower rate. All speculation, conjecture,
    and even informed opinions are welcome.
    --
    All the best,
    Pete

    ------------------------------------------------
    Home Page: http://users.bigpond.com/lansma
    Location: 42°53'S; 147°19'E

  3. I think I can now answer my own question. It seems that exercise pushes
    down insulin levels:

    http://www.mercola.com/2005/jul/21/aspirin_cancer.htm

    Now I am finding mercola.com to be a very useful source of
    health-related information. Slightly fanatical, which C. G Jung would
    agree is a sure sign of neuroticism, but helpful nonetheless.

    --
    All the best,
    Pete

    ------------------------------------------------
    Home Page: http://users.bigpond.com/lansma
    Location: 42°53'S; 147°19'E

    Pete said:

    I've been wondering about this lately. What is the view on how
    exercise assists low-carb weight loss. Is it simply a matter of
    calories burnt or are there other metabolic effects. For instance, I
    could imagine that regular exercise could increase the efficiency of
    energy expenditure. The reason I ask is that I have struggled to find
    time to exercise regularly over the last few weeks (aerobic-type) and
    continue to lose weight, albeit probably at a slower rate. All
    speculation, conjecture, and even informed opinions are welcome.

  4. It strengthens the response of the insulin receptors rather than pushing
    down insulin levels per se. In conjunction with a low carb diet, this works
    very well. You can still screw up your insulin response, even if you
    exercise, if you choose an unhealthy way of eating.

    --

    Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

    --
    "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I think I can now answer my own question. It seems that exercise pushes
    down insulin levels:

    http://www.mercola.com/2005/jul/21/aspirin_cancer.htm

    Now I am finding mercola.com to be a very useful source of
    health-related information. Slightly fanatical, which C. G Jung would
    agree is a sure sign of neuroticism, but helpful nonetheless.

    --
    All the best,
    Pete

    ------------------------------------------------
    Home Page: http://users.bigpond.com/lansma
    Location: 42°53'S; 147°19'E

    Pete said:

    I've been wondering about this lately. What is the view on how
    exercise assists low-carb weight loss. Is it simply a matter of
    calories burnt or are there other metabolic effects. For instance, I
    could imagine that regular exercise could increase the efficiency of
    energy expenditure. The reason I ask is that I have struggled to find
    time to exercise regularly over the last few weeks (aerobic-type) and
    continue to lose weight, albeit probably at a slower rate. All
    speculation, conjecture, and even informed opinions are welcome.

  5. If you are building muscle, the muscle has weight, which may make progress
    appear to slow on the scale. However, it is likely you have continued to
    lose fat. My impression is that weightloss from calorie expenditure during
    exercise tends to be overestimated. Extreme long hours of exercise can
    produce significant weightloss. It was demonstrated in the TV series The
    Biggest Loser. However, I have my doubt about 30 minutes twice a week
    making much difference. For those on a controlled calorie input, extra
    exercise should create a net loss. However, many dieters are eating ad-lib
    with respect to calories. I suspect the body recognizes the increased
    demands from light exercise and adjusts caloric intake upward. (-just a
    guess)

    Both fat and muscle burn calories just by being there. The bigger you are
    the higher your BMR.

    I tried a period of weight training. During a period of restricted calories
    and moderate protein, I found an initial period of strength increase was
    followed by a topping out effect. I suspect that a high protein change
    might have been needed. Instead, I recognized my increasing boredom and
    frustration with exercise, and abandoned the exercise effort.

    I like to note that it is possible to lose weight without extra exercise.
    Caloric restriction works. Low carb reduces appetite making caloric
    restriction easier.

    Caloric restriction is very unpopular. The low calorie USENET group is
    dead. Yahoo groups has a CRON group that believes in caloric restriction.
    However, after reading for a while in that group, I found that most
    participants were overweight and regarded a reduction of 10% from their 3000
    calories per day to be caloric restriction. They constantly review
    scientific studies supporting a practice, which most of them do not actually
    follow.

    "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've been wondering about this lately. What is the view on how exercise
    assists low-carb weight loss. Is it simply a matter of calories burnt or
    are there other metabolic effects. For instance, I could imagine that
    regular exercise could increase the efficiency of energy expenditure.
    The reason I ask is that I have struggled to find time to exercise
    regularly over the last few weeks (aerobic-type) and continue to lose
    weight, albeit probably at a slower rate. All speculation, conjecture,
    and even informed opinions are welcome.
    --
    All the best,
    Pete

    ------------------------------------------------
    Home Page: http://users.bigpond.com/lansma
    Location: 42°53'S; 147°19'E

  6. Quoted message said:

    From The New York Times this morning.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/fashion/thursdaystyles/21Fitness.html?July
    21, 2005

    Weight-Loss Theory Is Losing Some of Its Strength
    By MARTICA HEANER

    BARBARA WOODWORTH, 35, a social worker in Seattle, wanted to drop 40
    pounds. Alisa Rivera, 39, a college adviser at the University of
    California, Los Angeles, also wanted to lose weight. She also wanted to
    build long, lean muscle. So the two women routinely began to lift
    weights. But like many of the other 36 million women nationwide who
    each year pick up dumbbells hoping to lose pounds or develop a
    sculptured body, both Ms. Woodworth and Ms. Rivera ended up
    disappointed because the strategy is not as simple - or as effective -
    as it sounds.

    Personal trainers, fitness instructors, magazines and books have sold a
    double-barreled promise that any strength training builds muscle and
    that having more muscle dramatically speeds metabolism, increasing the
    calories a person burns while at rest. With all that extra calorie
    burning, the story goes, excess weight comes off effortlessly.

    The story is wrong in two ways, researchers say. First, muscle is not
    such an amazing calorie burner. "Even if weight training increases
    muscle and metabolism, there is little evidence showing that it is
    enough to cause weight loss," said Joseph Donnelly, the director of the
    Energy Balance Laboratory at the University of Kansas, who has
    extensively reviewed studies on the link between resistance training
    and weight loss.

    And second, many who try weight training - especially women - fail to
    do what it actually takes to build more muscle. They lift too light a
    weight, or they neglect to progress to heavier weights as they grow
    stronger. And often, women who take up weight lifting also diet. In
    fact, it is nearly impossible to increase muscle while cutting
    calories.

    Regular resistance training, done correctly, has many benefits. It can
    prevent some of the muscle loss that occurs with weight loss. It can
    also lower body fat levels and even help preserve bone mass. But the
    idea that it can magically increase calorie-burning is "a very big
    stretch," said Edward Melanson, an assistant professor in the division
    of endocrinology, diabetes and metabolism at the University of Colorado
    Health Sciences Center in Denver. Claims that resistance training can
    send metabolism skyrocketing are easy to find. A Google search using
    the terms "metabolism" and "weights" produces thousands of Web sites,
    many of which say that anyone can lose weight and build muscle through
    strength training, even doing routines that aren't particularly
    strenuous.

    Books like Kathy Smith's "Lift Weights to Lose Weight" also perpetuate
    the myth that building muscle supercharges metabolism and quickly leads
    to weight loss. In "Smart Girls Do Dumbbells," Judith Sherman-Wolin
    claims that resistance-training can "melt away those stubborn pounds
    you've been trying to lose all your life." And Jorge Cruise's best
    seller, "8 Minutes in the Morning," advises readers to forget aerobics
    or grueling workouts because doing his two strength-building exercises
    a day "will help you firm up five pounds of lean muscle within the
    first few weeks, allowing your body to burn an extra 250 calories per
    day." Ms. Woodworth of Seattle said, "Practically every fitness book
    and magazine I ever read said strength training boosts metabolism so
    you lose weight easier and faster."

    Before taking up weight lifting, she had already lost 15 pounds in
    about three months by cutting calories and walking and running for an
    hour three times a week. With 40 pounds still to shed, she turned to
    what she had heard was the magic bullet.

    Her trainer advised her to lift four times a week, cut her
    cardiovascular exercise to less than 30 minutes but still keep dieting.
    After six weeks, she was frustrated to find she had gained two pounds.
    That added weight probably wasn't muscle. Decreasing her
    high-calorie-burning walks and runs was the more likely culprit.
    Lifting weights burns few calories - "at least the way the average
    nonathlete does it and certainly the way most women tend to do it,
    using relatively low weights and few sets," Dr. Donnelly said. The same
    time spent an aerobic workout could double the calorie burn.

    Once Ms. Woodworth increased her time on cardio, she lost the added
    weight.

    Proponents of the theory that weight lifting leads to weight loss argue
    that it is the long-term effect of gaining more muscle, which burns
    more calories at rest, that causes weight loss. Still, that has never
    been proven in studies.

    Studies show that even women who do what it takes to get stronger
    develop only two to four pounds of muscle after six months of
    progressive lifting. Given that one pound of muscle burns between 7 to
    13 calories a day (as determined by studies that measured oxygen and
    blood flow to tissues), that means the average boost in metabolism is
    only 14 to 52 calories a day, said Dympna Gallagher, the director of
    the body composition unit at the New York Obesity Research Center in
    Manhattan.

    The effect of weight lifting "on metabolism is minor and certainly not
    the savior of dieters," said William Kraemer, a professor of physiology
    and neurobiology at the University of Connecticut.

    A recent yearlong study of 59 sedentary women at the University of
    Pittsburgh demonstrated what little difference weight training can make
    in weight loss. About a third of the women lifted weights three times a
    week, another third did yoga three times a week, and the last third did
    neither. All the women followed a daily diet of 1,200 to 1,500 calories
    for the entire year and walked five days a week. In the end, those who
    had lifted weights or practiced yoga lost as much weight and fat - but
    no more - than those who only dieted and walked.

    Surprisingly, many of the women became no stronger. "We were looking at
    whether women would stick to the routine, and if so, would they
    resistance train intensely enough," explained Kara Gallagher, the lead
    researcher. "It appears that many did not."

    When people lift light weights and fail to progressively increase the
    load, they only increase endurance, Dr. Kraemer said.

    After turning "doughy," Ms. Rivera of Los Angeles followed a few
    workouts using five-pound weights that she'd seen in Glamour and Shape
    magazines. "After three months the scale hadn't budged," she said. "I
    didn't see much of a difference in muscle tone."

    Eventually she realized that light weights were not enough. "When I
    progressed from a five-pound dumbbell and began to lift heavier, my
    arms and butt got firmer within three weeks, although I still did not
    lose weight," she said.

    For those looking to build a more sculptured body, dieting may be
    counterproductive. "To create new muscle tissue you need to eat enough,
    not cut calories, to fuel the process," said Karen Reznik Dolins, the
    director of nutrition at Altheus, a sports center in Rye, N.Y., and a
    nutrition adviser to the New York Knicks.

    Genetics can also help determine the impact that weight lifting can
    have on muscle development and metabolism.

    Researchers at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst looked at
    almost 600 men and women who did a strenuous, progressive resistance
    routine for three months, according to a study in this month's Medicine
    & Science in Sports & Exercise. Three percent were "high responders,"
    some of whom doubled their strength. One percent were "low responders,"
    who became only 1 percent stronger than they were when they started.
    The majority of men and women increased muscle size 15 to 25 percent;
    and most men improved their muscle strength 40 percent while women
    increased theirs 65 percent.

    Shannan Catlett, a fashion sales executive in Manhattan, said lifting
    heavy weights helped tone her slimmer body. After she lost 50 pounds by
    using the elliptical machine and treadmill and by following a healthier
    diet, she improved her muscle definition with weights.

    "I never lost weight from strength training, but my butt got smaller
    and I got stronger and firmer all over," Ms. Catlett, 41, said. "I
    still have to make sure that I'm always fit in regular cardio to
    maintain my weight."

    Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company Home Privacy Policy Search
    Corrections XML Help Contact Us Work for Us Back to Top

  7. Hey Catherine,

    Thanks for posting this, I hadn't seen the article, but it comes rather
    timely for me. I have some comments interspersed below.

    Catherine. said:
    Quoted message said:

    From The New York Times this morning.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/fashion/thursdaystyles/21Fitness.html?July
    21, 2005

    Weight-Loss Theory Is Losing Some of Its Strength
    By MARTICA HEANER


    [snip]

    Quoted message said:


    Personal trainers, fitness instructors, magazines and books have sold a
    double-barreled promise that any strength training builds muscle and
    that having more muscle dramatically speeds metabolism, increasing the
    calories a person burns while at rest. With all that extra calorie
    burning, the story goes, excess weight comes off effortlessly.

    The story is wrong in two ways, researchers say. First, muscle is not
    such an amazing calorie burner. "Even if weight training increases
    muscle and metabolism, there is little evidence showing that it is
    enough to cause weight loss," said Joseph Donnelly, the director of the
    Energy Balance Laboratory at the University of Kansas, who has
    extensively reviewed studies on the link between resistance training
    and weight loss.

    The funny thing about this was that I posted a few months ago about
    starting a weight training program. I specifically wanted to gain muscle
    from the program and one of the reasons was the oft-cited incentive that a
    pound of muscle, even at rest, burns far more than a pound of fat. Only
    after I'd started working out did I do some research and find that while
    that's still accepted as true, now the numbers have been changed. I'd seen
    numbers as high as 50 calories/day for each pound of muscle v. 3
    calories/day for a pound of fat. Now, I'm seeing numbers like 14
    calories/day for a *kilogram* of muscle. It still outperforms fat, but
    even if I achieve my original goal or replacing 10 lbs of fat w/ muscle
    (and I still do want to do that) that'll increase my total BMR by less
    than 100 calories/day. So, that inducement to gain muscle becomes less
    compelling. Of course, doing the work to build the muscle (and maintain
    and then build some more) is a pretty good calorie burner.

    Quoted message said:

    And second, many who try weight training - especially women - fail to
    do what it actually takes to build more muscle. They lift too light a
    weight, or they neglect to progress to heavier weights as they grow
    stronger. And often, women who take up weight lifting also diet. In
    fact, it is nearly impossible to increase muscle while cutting
    calories.

    Well, this ignores newbie gains, but of course that period doesn't last
    forever. My progress is slower than I'd like, but I am finding that I can
    not only do things I couldn't do before, but I'm moving up the row on the
    dumbbells

    Quoted message said:

    Regular resistance training, done correctly, has many benefits. It can
    prevent some of the muscle loss that occurs with weight loss. It can
    also lower body fat levels and even help preserve bone mass. But the
    idea that it can magically increase calorie-burning is "a very big
    stretch," said Edward Melanson, an assistant professor in the division
    of endocrinology, diabetes and metabolism at the University of Colorado
    Health Sciences Center in Denver. Claims that resistance training can
    send metabolism skyrocketing are easy to find. A Google search using
    the terms "metabolism" and "weights" produces thousands of Web sites,
    many of which say that anyone can lose weight and build muscle through
    strength training, even doing routines that aren't particularly
    strenuous.

    Yeah, I don't say we're looking for a free ride - I mean we're willing to
    put in the effort to build the muscle - but the lure of getting more out
    of your exercise than you put in is attractive.

    Quoted message said:

    Books like Kathy Smith's "Lift Weights to Lose Weight" also perpetuate
    the myth that building muscle supercharges metabolism and quickly leads
    to weight loss. In "Smart Girls Do Dumbbells," Judith Sherman-Wolin
    claims that resistance-training can "melt away those stubborn pounds
    you've been trying to lose all your life." And Jorge Cruise's best
    seller, "8 Minutes in the Morning," advises readers to forget aerobics
    or grueling workouts because doing his two strength-building exercises
    a day "will help you firm up five pounds of lean muscle within the
    first few weeks, allowing your body to burn an extra 250 calories per
    day." Ms. Woodworth of Seattle said, "Practically every fitness book
    and magazine I ever read said strength training boosts metabolism so
    you lose weight easier and faster."

    Before taking up weight lifting, she had already lost 15 pounds in
    about three months by cutting calories and walking and running for an
    hour three times a week. With 40 pounds still to shed, she turned to
    what she had heard was the magic bullet.

    Her trainer advised her to lift four times a week, cut her
    cardiovascular exercise to less than 30 minutes but still keep dieting.
    After six weeks, she was frustrated to find she had gained two pounds.
    That added weight probably wasn't muscle. Decreasing her
    high-calorie-burning walks and runs was the more likely culprit.
    Lifting weights burns few calories - "at least the way the average
    nonathlete does it and certainly the way most women tend to do it,
    using relatively low weights and few sets," Dr. Donnelly said. The same
    time spent an aerobic workout could double the calorie burn.

    Yes, I have to admit I got caught in this one, myself. I'd been doing an
    hour/day on the elliptical at or over 6mph (yes, I know that's not all
    that fast, but if you keep going long enough it starts to add up to real
    miles). When I started weight training, I ditched the cardio except to the
    extent that my workouts include cardio components. Between that and
    finding myself somewhat hungrier, I've added a few pounds back. Some of
    that's probably muscle, but I know some is fat, too. To correct for that,
    I've gone back to either doing cardio or swimming for at least an hour on
    non-workout days.

    Quoted message said:

    Once Ms. Woodworth increased her time on cardio, she lost the added
    weight.

    Proponents of the theory that weight lifting leads to weight loss argue
    that it is the long-term effect of gaining more muscle, which burns
    more calories at rest, that causes weight loss. Still, that has never
    been proven in studies.

    No, and if the studies citing 14 calories/kg of muscle are right, you'd
    need to build a *ton* of muscle for it to be significant.

    Quoted message said:

    Studies show that even women who do what it takes to get stronger
    develop only two to four pounds of muscle after six months of
    progressive lifting. Given that one pound of muscle burns between 7 to

    Just as a side note, Lyle does reference one study in which women did make
    more impressive muscle gains than that.

    Quoted message said:

    13 calories a day (as determined by studies that measured oxygen and
    blood flow to tissues), that means the average boost in metabolism is
    only 14 to 52 calories a day, said Dympna Gallagher, the director of
    the body composition unit at the New York Obesity Research Center in
    Manhattan.

    The effect of weight lifting "on metabolism is minor and certainly not
    the savior of dieters," said William Kraemer, a professor of physiology
    and neurobiology at the University of Connecticut.

    A recent yearlong study of 59 sedentary women at the University of
    Pittsburgh demonstrated what little difference weight training can make
    in weight loss. About a third of the women lifted weights three times a
    week, another third did yoga three times a week, and the last third did
    neither. All the women followed a daily diet of 1,200 to 1,500 calories
    for the entire year and walked five days a week. In the end, those who
    had lifted weights or practiced yoga lost as much weight and fat - but
    no more - than those who only dieted and walked.

    Surprisingly, many of the women became no stronger. "We were looking at
    whether women would stick to the routine, and if so, would they
    resistance train intensely enough," explained Kara Gallagher, the lead
    researcher. "It appears that many did not."

    Two different Gallaghers cited in the article. Hmm.

    No surprise on the results, though. Getting women to weight train goes
    against cultural norms and few people (of either sex) really like working
    as hard as it takes. Given that the women weren't for the most part
    working hard enough, then it isn't really surprising that they didn't have
    gains (or increased loss) from what they were doing.

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    For those looking to build a more sculptured body, dieting may be
    counterproductive. "To create new muscle tissue you need to eat enough,
    not cut calories, to fuel the process," said Karen Reznik Dolins, the
    director of nutrition at Altheus, a sports center in Rye, N.Y., and a
    nutrition adviser to the New York Knicks.

    Yeah, and that's where it does get tricky.

    Quoted message said:

    Genetics can also help determine the impact that weight lifting can
    have on muscle development and metabolism.

    Researchers at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst looked at
    almost 600 men and women who did a strenuous, progressive resistance
    routine for three months, according to a study in this month's Medicine
    & Science in Sports & Exercise. Three percent were "high responders,"
    some of whom doubled their strength. One percent were "low responders,"
    who became only 1 percent stronger than they were when they started.
    The majority of men and women increased muscle size 15 to 25 percent;
    and most men improved their muscle strength 40 percent while women
    increased theirs 65 percent.

    Shannan Catlett, a fashion sales executive in Manhattan, said lifting
    heavy weights helped tone her slimmer body. After she lost 50 pounds by
    using the elliptical machine and treadmill and by following a healthier
    diet, she improved her muscle definition with weights.

    "I never lost weight from strength training, but my butt got smaller
    and I got stronger and firmer all over," Ms. Catlett, 41, said. "I
    still have to make sure that I'm always fit in regular cardio to
    maintain my weight."


    Those are the results I want, so it looks like strength training plus
    cardio is the ticket.

    Martha Gallagher

    --
    Sig pending

  8. I think there is something to the mantra of "eating less and
    excercising more." In terms of excercising more, I think there's too
    much obsession about what kind of excercise is best (cardio vs.
    weightlifting? low-impact vs. high impact? etc). The best kind of
    excercise is the kind you can do 4-6 times a week, for 45-60 minutes at
    a time, and keep up for the long term.

    For me, its distance running (e.g., 5-7 miles a session currently).
    For others, its weight training. For my wife, its working out with
    weight machines in combination with an elliptical trainer (I hate those
    damn things). The point is to find what works for you, make sure you
    sweat and breathe hard when you do it, and do it regularly for
    sustained periods.

    In terms of the comment about cardio vs. weightbearing excercise, I
    think to a certain degree its an artificial distinction... because of
    all of the running I do, my legs are very muscular. After all, if
    pulling this hulk of a body of mine around for 5-7 miles a pop isn't
    weightbearing, I don't know what is.

  9. You have the right idea, but weightbearing exercises for the upper body are
    important also. Something as simple as a consistent regimen of pushups will
    do a world of good.

    --

    Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

    --
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I think there is something to the mantra of "eating less and
    excercising more." In terms of excercising more, I think there's too
    much obsession about what kind of excercise is best (cardio vs.
    weightlifting? low-impact vs. high impact? etc). The best kind of
    excercise is the kind you can do 4-6 times a week, for 45-60 minutes at
    a time, and keep up for the long term.

    For me, its distance running (e.g., 5-7 miles a session currently).
    For others, its weight training. For my wife, its working out with
    weight machines in combination with an elliptical trainer (I hate those
    damn things). The point is to find what works for you, make sure you
    sweat and breathe hard when you do it, and do it regularly for
    sustained periods.

    In terms of the comment about cardio vs. weightbearing excercise, I
    think to a certain degree its an artificial distinction... because of
    all of the running I do, my legs are very muscular. After all, if
    pulling this hulk of a body of mine around for 5-7 miles a pop isn't
    weightbearing, I don't know what is.

  10. I agree so much with the previous posters

    Low carb and exercise can be difficult because exercise needs energy
    and that is normally taken from carb?

    www.fitnessbegin.com

  11. You need to quote what you're replying to.

    And also, you don't think that fat provides energy? What's it there for
    then?

    --
    Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I agree so much with the previous posters

    Low carb and exercise can be difficult because exercise needs energy
    and that is normally taken from carb?

    www.fitnessbegin.com

  12. To make you fat and clog your arteries, of course. Don't you listen to your
    dietician?

    "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    You need to quote what you're replying to.

    And also, you don't think that fat provides energy? What's it there for
    then?

    --
    Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I agree so much with the previous posters

    Low carb and exercise can be difficult because exercise needs energy
    and that is normally taken from carb?

    www.fitnessbegin.com

  13. "Catherine." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From The New York Times this morning.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/fashion/thursdaystyles/21Fitness.html?July
    21, 2005

    Weight-Loss Theory Is Losing Some of Its Strength
    By MARTICA HEANER


    Sounds to me like these ladies were still looking for that easy way out. You
    can't drop your cardio to next to nothing, and think that 30 min of pink
    dumbells is going to make up the difference! And of course diet counts,
    can't do even an intense workout and then head for the Oreo Double
    Stuffs<LOL>

    I haven't lost weight, but I've definitely lost BF and gained muscle over
    the past 4-5 mos. Now I"m upping my cardio AND my lifting to start dropping
    more of the fat, and I've cut my calories. As far as I can tell, all three
    are really required for the optimum results. There just *isn't* a magic
    bullet!

    Lynne A
    [email hidden]

  14. Dietician? What kind of psuedo-scientist is that?

    --

    Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

    --
    "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    To make you fat and clog your arteries, of course. Don't you listen to
    your
    dietician?

    "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    You need to quote what you're replying to.

    And also, you don't think that fat provides energy? What's it there for
    then?

    --
    Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I agree so much with the previous posters

    Low carb and exercise can be difficult because exercise needs energy
    and that is normally taken from carb?

    www.fitnessbegin.com

  15. You didn't see my tongue in my cheek?

    In news:[email hidden],
    JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
    | Dietician? What kind of psuedo-scientist is that?
    |
    | --
    |
    | Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW
    |
    | --
    | "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    | news:[email hidden]...
    || To make you fat and clog your arteries, of course. Don't you listen
    || to your
    || dietician?
    ||
    || "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    || news:[email hidden]...
    || You need to quote what you're replying to.
    ||
    || And also, you don't think that fat provides energy? What's it there
    || for then?
    ||
    || --
    || Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that.
    || -- MFW
    ||
    ||
    || <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    || news:[email hidden]...
    ||| I agree so much with the previous posters
    |||
    ||| Low carb and exercise can be difficult because exercise needs energy
    ||| and that is normally taken from carb?
    |||
    ||| www.fitnessbegin.com

  16. You don't understand a reply in kind?

    --

    Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

    --
    "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    You didn't see my tongue in my cheek?

    In news:[email hidden],
    JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
    | Dietician? What kind of psuedo-scientist is that?
    |
    | --
    |
    | Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW
    |
    | --
    | "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    | news:[email hidden]...
    || To make you fat and clog your arteries, of course. Don't you listen
    || to your
    || dietician?
    ||
    || "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    || news:[email hidden]...
    || You need to quote what you're replying to.
    ||
    || And also, you don't think that fat provides energy? What's it there
    || for then?
    ||
    || --
    || Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that.
    || -- MFW
    ||
    ||
    || <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    || news:[email hidden]...
    ||| I agree so much with the previous posters
    |||
    ||| Low carb and exercise can be difficult because exercise needs energy
    ||| and that is normally taken from carb?
    |||
    ||| www.fitnessbegin.com

  17. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Low carb and exercise can be difficult because exercise needs energy
    and that is normally taken from carb?

    Unless you're exercising at athlete levels, your liver can cope with normal
    exercise demands.

    Nicky.

    --
    A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
    1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
    95/76/72Kg

  18. The appropriate tongue in cheek response would have been: Oh, I'm sorry.
    I forgot to check with her, my brain must be starved for carbs.

    In news:[email hidden],
    JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
    | You don't understand a reply in kind?
    |
    | --
    |
    | Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW
    |
    | --
    | "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    | news:[email hidden]...
    || You didn't see my tongue in my cheek?
    ||
    || In news:[email hidden],
    || JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
    ||| Dietician? What kind of psuedo-scientist is that?
    |||
    ||| --
    |||
    ||| Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW
    |||
    ||| --
    ||| "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ||| news:[email hidden]...
    |||| To make you fat and clog your arteries, of course. Don't you
    |||| listen to your
    |||| dietician?
    ||||

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