The real loser

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

What about Mancebo? If things were only a little different HE would have
won.

"Scott" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Doesn't work that way. Take out Landis and the "gift" to Pereiro, and you
would have had a different race. Perhaps CSC would have attacked Kloden when
he was in trouble to give Sastre more time on him and Sastre would have won.
etcetera.

Plus Kloden can't be the rightful winner when his team is the one that gave
Pereiro the gift as much as anyone. Phonak figured that giving Oscar a
minute wouldn't be a threat to Floyd, and they were right. TMO on the
otherhand were wrong in their tactics. So no, Kloden is not any sort of
rightful winner. However, he definitely qualifies for his second virtual TDF
victory.

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Well, the loser is Wim Vansevenant, as he was the only one who didn't dope
and should have been the rightful winner.

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Hah.

Landis let Oscar gain a half hour on himself.

Kloden let Oscar gain time on himself and that's his own damn problem.

Kloden can't blame someone else for giving up time to one of his rivals.

Ron

Scott a écrit :

Quoted message said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

The rider crossing the line at the end with the least elapsed time is
the winner. Or are you looking for excuses why you don't manage to win ?

Sandy said:

Scott a écrit :

Quoted message said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

The rider crossing the line at the end with the least elapsed time is
the winner. Or are you looking for excuses why you don't manage to win ?

I have seen Scott manage to win with my own eyes, so that's not it.

Back to the original subject, I have come to the conclusion that I am
the real loser. I had Pereiro on my fantasy team and I see no sign that
they're going to recalculate the points.

Bret

Scott said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Kloden never wore yellow and didn't win a stage so it's unlikely he was
ever dope tested. Could be a good strategy.

Geraard Spergen said:

Scott said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Kloden never wore yellow and didn't win a stage so it's unlikely he was
ever dope tested. Could be a good strategy.

Well, never wearing the yellow might make it a little bit hard to win
the thing.

Wait a minute ... unless they guys finishing in front of you get
retroactively disqualified, right?

I think you are on to something. Watch out, Pereiro.

Geraard Spergen said:

Quoted message said:

Kloden never wore yellow and didn't win a stage so it's unlikely he was
ever dope tested. Could be a good strategy.

Ernst Noch said:

Well, never wearing the yellow might make it a little bit hard to win
the thing.
Wait a minute ... unless they guys finishing in front of you get
retroactively disqualified, right?
I think you are on to something. Watch out, Pereiro.

So where was the delayed Vuelta winner Menchov placed ?

Sandy said:

Scott a écrit :

Quoted message said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

The rider crossing the line at the end with the least elapsed time is
the winner. Or are you looking for excuses why you don't manage to win ?

I wasn't looking for an excuse for anything, except for an excuse for a
topic of discussion.

By the way, I won a 10 lap tempo race on the track last week. First
win in longer than I care to remember. I don't think my T/E ratio had
anything to do with it, but I can assure you I had a ragingly high
testosterone level afterwards! Strong, like bull! Funny how winning
makes you feel strong.

hmmmm, maybe I'm on to something. Perhaps it was the win that lead to
Floyd's skewed T/E ratio, not the other way around???? Anybody got any
contact info for his legal team? I'd like to share my thoughts with
them. Being a self-appointed RBR expert, my theory will surely hold up
in court, right?

Scott

On 1 Aug 2006 12:33:05 -0700, "Scott" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Being a self-appointed RBR expert, my theory will surely hold up
in court, right?

Funny how "holding up in court" and "being held up in court" sound a
lot alike, but mean entirely different things.

If you would prefer that it not be self-appointed, a four pack of a
good ale distributed to the right people will get you a Livedrunk(tm)
appointment and endorsement. We can be bought and bought cheap. If we
knew anything, we would also leak it for a small liquid remuneration,
but actually, we don't so we can't.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

in message <[email hidden]>, Scott

(') said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Oh, don't be ridiculous. T-Mo didn't have to wait for Phonak to chase on
stage 13, they could have chased themselves. They didn't. They chose not
to. Tough. Pereiro worked hard for his victory, never gave up, and
deserves what he has got.

The real people who were cheated out of a chance of winning are Jan
Ullrich and Ivan Basso, neither of whom have failed a drugs test, and
Vinokourov against whom no investigation has been brought. The fact that
they were excluded while Landis was allowed to race is outrageously
unjust.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; this is not a .sig

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Kloden never wore yellow and didn't win a stage so it's unlikely he was
ever dope tested. Could be a good strategy.

I believe the process is that they normally drug test the 1st, 2nd and 3rd
places and so many others based mostly on chance.

Kloden finished 2nd on stage 19. Moreover, if you look at Kloden's results
they are very unimpressive.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, don't be ridiculous. T-Mo didn't have to wait for Phonak to chase on
stage 13, they could have chased themselves.

I think that T-Mobile used up all of their chasing skills at the Tour in
'01.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Scott

(') said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

Oh, don't be ridiculous. T-Mo didn't have to wait for Phonak to chase on
stage 13, they could have chased themselves. They didn't. They chose not
to. Tough. Pereiro worked hard for his victory, never gave up, and
deserves what he has got.

The real people who were cheated out of a chance of winning are Jan
Ullrich and Ivan Basso, neither of whom have failed a drugs test, and
Vinokourov against whom no investigation has been brought. The fact that
they were excluded while Landis was allowed to race is outrageously
unjust.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; this is not a .sig

Your mention Vinokourov brings to mind the recent report that his
teammates have been exonerated by the Spainish judge. They have
petitioned to be reinstated. It would seem that these circumstances
would be of interest on rbr, but there has been only silence. Is
this of no consequence?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Scott said:

Sandy said:

Scott a écrit :

Quoted message said:

in all of this (assuming Landis loses his title) is Kloden. Were it
not for Landis and Phonak giving Pereiro 30 minutes, he'd have finished
back around 20th place (or worse). But, thanks to the gift from the
alleged doper, he finds himself in 2nd w/ Kloden in 3rd.

Take out Landis, and the gift to Pereiro, and you have Kloden, the
rightful winner.

The rider crossing the line at the end with the least elapsed time is
the winner. Or are you looking for excuses why you don't manage to win ?

I wasn't looking for an excuse for anything, except for an excuse for a
topic of discussion.

By the way, I won a 10 lap tempo race on the track last week. First
win in longer than I care to remember. I don't think my T/E ratio had
anything to do with it, but I can assure you I had a ragingly high
testosterone level afterwards! Strong, like bull! Funny how winning
makes you feel strong.

Hmm, sounds like a reference to the '88 Ronde Van Vlaanderen and Eddy Planckaert
on its way...

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 22:23:01 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com>

Quoted message said:

Kloden finished 2nd on stage 19. Moreover, if you look at Kloden's results
they are very unimpressive.

I'm SO unimpressed:

Official Results - Stage 19

1. Sergei Gontchar (Ukr), T-Mobile, 57km in 1:07:45 (50.479kph)
2. Andréas Klöden (G), T-Mobile, at 00:41

Quoted message said:

Your mention Vinokourov brings to mind the recent report that his
teammates have been exonerated by the Spainish judge. They have
petitioned to be reinstated. It would seem that these circumstances
would be of interest on rbr, but there has been only silence. Is
this of no consequence?

If I understand correctly, and there's a huge probability that I don't,
the Spanish judge has only cleared them from the perspective of
compliance with Spanish law. He has no jurisdiction nor has he claimed
any, to release them from any potential violations of UCI/WADA rules.
They're separate issues and perhaps they haven't been completely
exonerated from that suspicion.

Scott

Scott said:

Quoted message said:

Your mention Vinokourov brings to mind the recent report that his
teammates have been exonerated by the Spainish judge. They have
petitioned to be reinstated. It would seem that these circumstances
would be of interest on rbr, but there has been only silence. Is
this of no consequence?

If I understand correctly, and there's a huge probability that I don't,
the Spanish judge has only cleared them from the perspective of
compliance with Spanish law. He has no jurisdiction nor has he claimed
any, to release them from any potential violations of UCI/WADA rules.
They're separate issues and perhaps they haven't been completely
exonerated from that suspicion.

Scott

I think your interpertation is absolutely correct. The basis for my
question though is that since the envolvement in the Spanish case was
the basis for their suspension the removal of the basis would impact
their participation. An arcance system this guilty by suspicion.
Do you feel comfortable with it? Does it concern you that so much
is being surrender for the sake of minor an interest as "sports
integrity"?