The placebo effect

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skepdic.complacebo.htmlOpen ↗ The placebo effect
is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is
believed by many

people

Quoted message said:

to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A
placebo (Latin

for

Quoted message said:

"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment
believed by the

administrator

Quoted message said:

of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be
sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and
"fake" psychotherapy are considered placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to
patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is
garnered in this way. Those

who

Quoted message said:

believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo
effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a
control group treated with a

placebo.

Quoted message said:

Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy,
would be effective

is

Quoted message said:

not

yadda yadda......

In the main, an excellent and thorough account. It makes two
common oversights. Firstly, in many contexts patients
improvements are due to spontaneous fluctuations in symptom
severity. The irritable bowel symdrome is a condition where
symptoms typically come and go quite quickly and this is why
up to 80% of patients in controlled trials will report to be
improved or symptom free after a period on a dummy pill.

Secondly, it does not emphasise sufficiently that placebo
influences are limited, in the main, to subjective benefits,
i.e. how patients feel, rather than on disease processes.
Thus a cancer patient may feel better with a placebo
treatment even as their cancer is getting worse.

Peter Moran

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:08:14 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

skepdic.complacebo.htmlOpen ↗ The placebo effect is
the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health
not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by
many people to be due to the placebo itself in some
mysterious way. A placebo (Latin for "I shall please"😉 is a
medication or treatment believed by the administrator of
the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be
sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake"
psychotherapy are considered placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to
patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is
garnered in this way. Those who believe there is scientific
evidence for the placebo effect point to clinical studies,
many of which use a control group treated with a placebo.
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would
be effective is not

yadda yadda......

Thanx for your important, insightful and terse contribution
to the discussion of this article.

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Anth

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

A very effective natural treatment without using drugs. So
effective is this natural treatment that drugs try to
compete with it's effects and are considered ineffective
unless they faire better.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QfidnUj6aacFp-HdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skepdic.complacebo.htmlOpen ↗ The placebo effect
is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is
believed by many

people

Quoted message said:

to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A
placebo (Latin

for

Quoted message said:

"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment
believed by the

administrator

Quoted message said:

of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be
sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and
"fake" psychotherapy are considered placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to
patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is
garnered in this way. Those

who

Quoted message said:

believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo
effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a
control group treated with a

placebo.

Quoted message said:

Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy,
would be effective

is

Quoted message said:

not

yadda yadda......

Anth

You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine. Anth

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anth said:

skepdic.complacebo.htmlOpen ↗ The placebo effect
is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is
believed by many

people

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A
placebo (Latin

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment
believed by the

administrator

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may
be sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and
"fake" psychotherapy are considered placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos
to patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is
garnered in this way. Those

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo
effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a
control group treated with a

placebo.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy,
would be effective

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not

yadda yadda......

Thanx for your important, insightful and terse
contribution to the discussion of this article.

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Anth

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

You're just a a [censored] because you want a big strong lad
like me. Anth

"I Dream of Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine. Anth

That attitude is (one of the reasons) why you've never
slept with the same woman twice.

Quoted message said:

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:08:14 +0100, "Anth"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QfidnUj6aacFp-HdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skepdic.complacebo.htmlOpen ↗ The placebo effect
is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is
believed by many

people

Quoted message said:

to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way.
A placebo (Latin

for

Quoted message said:

"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed
by the

administrator

Quoted message said:

of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may
be sugar pills

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake"
psychotherapy are

considered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos
to patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect
is garnered in this way. Those

who

Quoted message said:

believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo
effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a
control group treated with a

placebo.

Quoted message said:

Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy,
would be effective

is

Quoted message said:

not

yadda yadda......

In the main, an excellent and thorough account. It makes
two common oversights. Firstly, in many contexts patients
improvements are due to spontaneous fluctuations in
symptom severity. The irritable bowel

symdrome

Quoted message said:

is a condition where symptoms typically come and go quite
quickly and this is why up to 80% of patients in
controlled trials will report to be

improved

Quoted message said:

or symptom free after a period on a dummy pill.

Secondly, it does not emphasise sufficiently that placebo
influences are limited, in the main, to subjective
benefits, i.e. how patients feel, rather than on disease
processes. Thus a cancer patient may feel better with a
placebo treatment even as their cancer is getting worse.

Other interesting sources of bias are experimenter bias -
where a proponent is more likely to show positive results
even in double blind trials, whereas a non proponent is not.
I'm not sure how they would sort this source of bias out, I
mean what if you have 2 equally valid studies done by A + B
where each are valid and show effect and no effect. Could
this be the source of the bias in double blind acupuncture
and homeopathy studies? Who do you believe - the proponent
or the sceptic?

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran

Anth

The human body is a fantastic processing plant and is capable of
repairing itself. There are so many factors that go into the
biocontrols that can seemingly cause the body to repair itself. What
goes into the mouth has a direct baring on the effectiveness of the
repair process. If while taking a test sugar pill the tester feels
good about themself and just happens to eat more nutritious food, the
tester will infact start to repair their own body. Fresh produce
freshly picked and then consumed contains the nutrients to effect the
biocontrols and thus repair the body. If some how a similar thing
happens in the use of a placebo, the body may temperally start to heal
itself.
This is why doctors are starting to believe that the mind set of a
sick person is very important before an important operation. If the
will to live is present a patient has a better chance to survive a
tough situation. The placebo gives the recipient of the placebo added
faith that a healing will occur.
"Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A very effective natural treatment without using drugs. So
effective is this natural treatment that drugs try to
compete with it's effects and are considered ineffective
unless they faire better.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QfidnUj6aacFp-HdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skepdic.complacebo.htmlOpen ↗ The placebo effect
is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is
believed by many

people

Quoted message said:

to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way.
A placebo (Latin

for

Quoted message said:

"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed
by the

administrator

Quoted message said:

of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may
be sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and
"fake" psychotherapy are considered placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos
to patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect
is garnered in this way. Those

who

Quoted message said:

believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo
effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a
control group treated with a

placebo.

Quoted message said:

Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy,
would be effective

is

Quoted message said:

not

yadda yadda......

Anth

Doctors are starting to believe in "Holistic" medicine? That
ancient practice that goes back beyond human thought?.

Geeez. the doctors may be right if they ever reinvent
the wheel.

"Peter Blackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The human body is a fantastic processing plant and is
capable of repairing itself. There are so many factors
that go into the biocontrols that can seemingly cause the
body to repair itself. What goes into the mouth has a
direct baring on the effectiveness of the repair process.
If while taking a test sugar pill the tester feels good
about themself and just happens to eat more nutritious
food, the tester will infact start to repair their own
body. Fresh produce freshly picked and then consumed
contains the nutrients to effect the biocontrols and thus
repair the body. If some how a similar thing happens in
the use of a placebo, the body may temperally start to
heal itself. This is why doctors are starting to believe
that the mind set of a sick person is very important
before an important operation. If the will to live is
present a patient has a better chance to survive a tough
situation. The placebo gives the recipient of the placebo
added faith that a healing will occur. "Gymmy Bob"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A very effective natural treatment without using drugs.
So effective is

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

natural treatment that drugs try to compete with it's
effects and are considered ineffective unless they faire
better.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QfidnUj6aacFp-HdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skepdic.complacebo.htmlOpen ↗ The placebo effect
is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

health not attributable to treatment. This effect is
believed by many

people

Quoted message said:

to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious
way. A placebo

(Latin

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for

Quoted message said:

"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment
believed by the

administrator

Quoted message said:

of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos
may be sugar pills

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake"
psychotherapy are

considered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

placebos.

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give
placebos to patients. Anecdotal evidence for the
placebo effect is garnered in this way.

Those

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who

Quoted message said:

believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo
effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a
control group treated with a

placebo.

Quoted message said:

Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy,
would be

effective

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

not

yadda yadda......

Anth