General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

The placebo effect

Anth · 2004-04-13T19:08:14+00:00

http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many people to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin for "I shall please") is a medication or treatment believed by the administrator of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered placebos. Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients. Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those who believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a placebo. Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective is not yadda yadda...... Anth

Started by Anth · 13 April 2004 · Last activity 14 April 2004 · 13 posts · 301 views

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Original section: General fitness, health and nutrition
Published: 13 April 2004
Last activity: 14 April 2004
Original author: Anth
Posts: 13
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 301
Views / 30 days: 0

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Original post
Anth
Archived post

13 April 2004, 19:08 UTC #1

http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many people
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin for
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the administrator
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those who
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a placebo.
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective is
not
yadda yadda......
Anth

Report
Peter Moran
Archived post

13 April 2004, 21:23 UTC #2

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many

people
Quoted message said:
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin

for
Quoted message said:
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the

administrator
Quoted message said:
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those

who
Quoted message said:
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a

placebo.
Quoted message said:
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective

is
Quoted message said:
not
yadda yadda......
In the main, an excellent and thorough account. It makes two common
oversights. Firstly, in many contexts patients improvements are due to
spontaneous fluctuations in symptom severity. The irritable bowel symdrome
is a condition where symptoms typically come and go quite quickly and this
is why up to 80% of patients in controlled trials will report to be improved
or symptom free after a period on a dummy pill.
Secondly, it does not emphasise sufficiently that placebo influences are
limited, in the main, to subjective benefits, i.e. how patients feel,
rather than on disease processes. Thus a cancer patient may feel better
with a placebo treatment even as their cancer is getting worse.
Peter Moran

Report
Rich.@.
Archived post

13 April 2004, 21:37 UTC #3

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:08:14 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many people
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin for
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the administrator
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those who
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a placebo.
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective is
not
yadda yadda......
Thanx for your important, insightful and terse contribution to the
discussion of this article.
Aloha,
Rich
Quoted message said:

Anth
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance

Report
Gymmy Bob
Archived post

13 April 2004, 21:45 UTC #4

A very effective natural treatment without using drugs. So effective is this
natural treatment that drugs try to compete with it's effects and are
considered ineffective unless they faire better.
"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many

people
Quoted message said:
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin

for
Quoted message said:
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the

administrator
Quoted message said:
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those

who
Quoted message said:
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a

placebo.
Quoted message said:
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective

is
Quoted message said:
not
yadda yadda......
Anth

Report
Anth
Archived post

13 April 2004, 23:50 UTC #5

You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine.
Anth
<Rich.@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:08:14 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many

people
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin

for
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the

administrator
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those

who
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a

placebo.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective

is
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
not
yadda yadda......
Thanx for your important, insightful and terse contribution to the
discussion of this article.
Aloha,
Rich
Quoted message said:

Anth
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance

Report
I Dream of Ilsa9
Archived post

14 April 2004, 00:16 UTC #6

Quoted message said:
You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine.
Anth
That attitude is (one of the reasons) why you've never slept with the same
woman twice.
Quoted message said:
<Rich.@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:08:14 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Report
Jan
Archived post

14 April 2004, 00:34 UTC #7

Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: The placebo effect
From: [email hidden] (I Dream of Ilsa9)
Date: 4/13/2004 7:16 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine.
Anth
That attitude is (one of the reasons) why you've never slept with the same
woman twice.
And Andrew hasn't once.
Jan

Report
Anth
Archived post

14 April 2004, 02:34 UTC #8

You're just a a [censored] because you want a big strong lad like me.
Anth
"I Dream of Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine.
Anth
That attitude is (one of the reasons) why you've never slept with the same
woman twice.
Quoted message said:
<Rich.@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:08:14 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Report
Anth
Archived post

14 April 2004, 03:53 UTC #9

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many

people
Quoted message said:
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin

for
Quoted message said:
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the

administrator
Quoted message said:
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills

or
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are

considered
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those

who
Quoted message said:
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a

placebo.
Quoted message said:
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective

is
Quoted message said:
not
yadda yadda......
In the main, an excellent and thorough account. It makes two common
oversights. Firstly, in many contexts patients improvements are due to
spontaneous fluctuations in symptom severity. The irritable bowel

symdrome
Quoted message said:
is a condition where symptoms typically come and go quite quickly and this
is why up to 80% of patients in controlled trials will report to be

improved
Quoted message said:
or symptom free after a period on a dummy pill.
Secondly, it does not emphasise sufficiently that placebo influences are
limited, in the main, to subjective benefits, i.e. how patients feel,
rather than on disease processes. Thus a cancer patient may feel better
with a placebo treatment even as their cancer is getting worse.
Other interesting sources of bias are experimenter bias - where a proponent
is more likely to show positive results even in double blind trials, whereas
a non proponent is not.
I'm not sure how they would sort this source of bias out, I mean what if you
have 2 equally valid studies done by A + B where each are valid and show
effect and no effect.
Could this be the source of the bias in double blind acupuncture and
homeopathy studies?
Who do you believe - the proponent or the sceptic?
Quoted message said:
Peter Moran
Anth

Report
Peter Blackman
Archived post

14 April 2004, 04:16 UTC #10

The human body is a fantastic processing plant and is capable of
repairing itself. There are so many factors that go into the
biocontrols that can seemingly cause the body to repair itself. What
goes into the mouth has a direct baring on the effectiveness of the
repair process. If while taking a test sugar pill the tester feels
good about themself and just happens to eat more nutritious food, the
tester will infact start to repair their own body. Fresh produce
freshly picked and then consumed contains the nutrients to effect the
biocontrols and thus repair the body. If some how a similar thing
happens in the use of a placebo, the body may temperally start to heal
itself.
This is why doctors are starting to believe that the mind set of a
sick person is very important before an important operation. If the
will to live is present a patient has a better chance to survive a
tough situation. The placebo gives the recipient of the placebo added
faith that a healing will occur.
"Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
A very effective natural treatment without using drugs. So effective is this
natural treatment that drugs try to compete with it's effects and are
considered ineffective unless they faire better.
"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many

people
Quoted message said:
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin

for
Quoted message said:
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the

administrator
Quoted message said:
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are considered
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those

who
Quoted message said:
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a

placebo.
Quoted message said:
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective

is
Quoted message said:
not
yadda yadda......
Anth

Report
Jan
Archived post

14 April 2004, 07:29 UTC #11

Quoted message said:
Subject: Re: The placebo effect
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 4/13/2004 9:34 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>
You're just a a [censored] because you want a big strong lad like me.
Anth
Ain't it the truth.
Jan
Quoted message said:
"I Dream of Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine.
Anth
That attitude is (one of the reasons) why you've never slept with the same
woman twice.
Quoted message said:
<Rich.@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:08:14 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>

Report
I Dream of Ilsa9
Archived post

14 April 2004, 13:47 UTC #12

Quoted message said:
You're just a a [censored] because you want a big strong lad like me.
Anth
Yes, you're ever so butch and the fact that you feel that you need to "cleanse"
yourself is icing on the cake.
Quoted message said:
"I Dream of Ilsa9" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
You're entirely welcome - the pleasure is mine.
Anth
That attitude is (one of the reasons) why you've never slept with the same
woman twice.
Quoted message said:
<Rich.@.> wrote in message

Report
Gymmy Bob
Archived post

14 April 2004, 23:27 UTC #13

Doctors are starting to believe in "Holistic" medicine? That ancient
practice that goes back beyond human thought?.
Geeez. the doctors may be right if they ever reinvent the wheel.
"Peter Blackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The human body is a fantastic processing plant and is capable of
repairing itself. There are so many factors that go into the
biocontrols that can seemingly cause the body to repair itself. What
goes into the mouth has a direct baring on the effectiveness of the
repair process. If while taking a test sugar pill the tester feels
good about themself and just happens to eat more nutritious food, the
tester will infact start to repair their own body. Fresh produce
freshly picked and then consumed contains the nutrients to effect the
biocontrols and thus repair the body. If some how a similar thing
happens in the use of a placebo, the body may temperally start to heal
itself.
This is why doctors are starting to believe that the mind set of a
sick person is very important before an important operation. If the
will to live is present a patient has a better chance to survive a
tough situation. The placebo gives the recipient of the placebo added
faith that a healing will occur.
"Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
A very effective natural treatment without using drugs. So effective is

this
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
natural treatment that drugs try to compete with it's effects and are
considered ineffective unless they faire better.
"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement

in
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many

people
Quoted message said:
to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo

(Latin
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
for
Quoted message said:
"I shall please"😉 is a medication or treatment believed by the

administrator
Quoted message said:
of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills

or
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake" psychotherapy are

considered
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
placebos.
Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.
Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way.

Those
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
who
Quoted message said:
believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to
clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a

placebo.
Quoted message said:
Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be

effective
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
is
Quoted message said:
not
yadda yadda......
Anth

Report

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