The Olympic road race - a modest proposal

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:42:49 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay, so at the Olympic RR (and also, really, at the World RR
championship race), the traditional problem

This is a problem for who?

JT

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Okay, so at the Olympic RR (and also, really, at the World RR
championship race), the traditional problem

This is a problem for who?

My impression is that an Olympic RR medal has less value than a stage win in
the TdeF.

Watching the Olympic RR is interesting, watching critical stages in the Tour
is a Matter of Life and Death, and the respective "values" of a win reflect
that IMHO. Fab, ever a commentator on relative measures of cool, may have a
view on this if he can get out of his oxygen tent long enough to reply.

Given that the Olympic RR is a one stage, one day event it would maybe make
it more interesting to give national teams (all of the riders) a recognised
role and reward - Ryan's idea supports this.

One other idea would be to run it over a few more days with differing and
perhaps more interesting terrain - sort of a classic format.

You would not believe the course they were going to run the Olympic RR in
Sydney until the cyclists here said it was flat, boring and unchallenging
for recreational riders, let alone pro's. Olympic sports administrators do
not necessarily understand cycling.

While the course they finally ran was more interesting I could not help feel
it was not really much of a test as to who was the worlds "best" all round
road cyclist.

The Tour leaves you in no such doubt.

best, Andrew (remove the .x1 for email)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Andrew Price said:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Okay, so at the Olympic RR (and also, really, at the World RR
championship race), the traditional problem

This is a problem for who?

My impression is that an Olympic RR medal has less value than a stage win in
the TdeF.

Quoted message said:

You would not believe the course they were going to run the Olympic RR in
Sydney until the cyclists here said it was flat, boring and unchallenging
for recreational riders, let alone pro's. Olympic sports administrators do
not necessarily understand cycling.

While the course they finally ran was more interesting I could not help feel
it was not really much of a test as to who was the worlds "best" all round
road cyclist.

The Tour leaves you in no such doubt.

One issue with any test of road racing is that it's more than one kind
of racing. The skills overlap, but GC riders in the grand tours train
for that, and there's a reason why the same Dutch monsters who do so
well in the Classics fall away in the tours.

A really flat, boring course is just an invitation to sprinters. A
really hilly, selective course plays into the hands of the angels. Throw
in cobblestones, and you favor strong men on breakaways. Never mind
criteriums, pure hillclimb road races, and the other even more special
kinds of road races.

The Olympic RR cannot be all things to all riders. There are only two
road events, the RR and the TT, and any riders who want more events than
that are invited to learn enough bike-handling to ride XC mountain bikes
(though from the rumors I've heard, this year's XC course may be about
as technically challenging as the RR course 🙂.

But that's another story. Back to John's question, it's a problem for
spectators. If we're being sold the fiction that this is a team sport,
then wouldn't it be nice if it wasn't a fiction? If this is just an
individual race, then it's one tempered by the value of teamwork,
however ad hoc.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:42:49 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay, so at the Olympic RR (and also, really, at the World RR
championship race), the traditional problem

This is a problem for who?

Well, I think for the spectators. And for the sporting nature of the
event. I appreciate gleefully mercenary riding. I think pro teams are
great; I'm no Henri Desgranges. The problem is that if Rider A from
country X and Rider B from country Y are cooperating tactically because
they both ride for Team Z and their racing is tempered by the idea that
it is prudent for the career of B that he help A win rather than take
his honest chances, I don't think that's ideal for the sporting nature
of the event.

I guess the question comes down to this: is road racing a team event?
Should we treat it as such?

In the Tour, we more or less do treat it as a team sport, and the teams
(by their organization and prize-sharing) are even more team-oriented
than fans.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Andrew Price said:

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote

Quoted message said:

>Okay, so at the Olympic RR (and also, really, at the World RR
>championship race), the traditional problem

This is a problem for who?

My impression is that an Olympic RR medal has less value than a stage

win in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the TdeF.

Quoted message said:

You would not believe the course they were going to run the Olympic RR

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sydney until the cyclists here said it was flat, boring and

unchallenging

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for recreational riders, let alone pro's. Olympic sports administrators

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not necessarily understand cycling.

While the course they finally ran was more interesting I could not help

feel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it was not really much of a test as to who was the worlds "best" all

round

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

road cyclist.

The Tour leaves you in no such doubt.

Results seem pretty good to me

1 Jan Ullrich (Ger) 5.29.08 (43.64 km/h)
2 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) 0.09
3 Andreas Kloeden (Ger) 0.12
4 Michele Bartoli (Ita) 1.26
5 Laurent Jalabert (Fra)
6 Frank Hoj (Den)
7 Piotr Wadecki (Pol)
8 George Hincapie (USA)
9 Paolo Bettini (Ita)
10 Dmitri Konychev (Rus)
11 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) 1.29
12 Axel Merckx (Bel)
13 Lance Armstrong (USA)
14 Erik Zabel (Ger) 1.38
15 Max Van Heeswijk (Ned)

Peter

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:06:18 GMT, "Andrew Price"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[about Sydney Olympic RR]

Quoted message said:

While the course they finally ran
was more interesting I could not help feel
it was not really much of a test as to who
was the worlds "best" all round
road cyclist.

Ullrich, Vinokourov, Kloden, Bartoli and Jalabert were the first five.
Bettini and Hincapie were also in the first ten. That's a pretty good
selection to me.

JT

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:19:52 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:42:49 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay, so at the Olympic RR (and also, really, at the World RR
championship race), the traditional problem

This is a problem for who?

Well, I think for the spectators.

? Spectators are upset by seeing "new" national teams. I doubt tha.

Quoted message said:

And for the sporting nature of the
event. I appreciate gleefully mercenary riding. I think pro teams are
great; I'm no Henri Desgranges. The problem is that if Rider A from
country X and Rider B from country Y are cooperating tactically because
they both ride for Team Z and their racing is tempered by the idea that
it is prudent for the career of B that he help A win rather than take
his honest chances, I don't think that's ideal for the sporting nature
of the event.

I guess the question comes down to this: is road racing a team event?
Should we treat it as such?

Hmm. In Sydney we saw the Germans working together, aided by a trade
teammate of their from another country who is clearly the best rider
from his country. We saw two Italians working together in the finale
(Bartoli and Bettini -- I'm not sure if they were trade teammates).
And we saw a US team dominated and controlled by USPS working fairly
well together, or at least the problems they had were not trade team
rivalry.

I really don't understand what these problems are.

What Olympic (or even pro/elite RR champions) in the last several
years have been adversely affected by trade team rivalries? I can't
think of any. Maybe the Italian Mapei guy who chased Simoni in
Portugal? For sure, there have been internal rivalries in national
teams, but those have been by riders riding for themselves rather than
their teammates.

JT