The new groups

OK I'll admitt right upfront that I'm biased totaly towards Campagnolo, I've never actually owned a Road Bike with Shimano & never would, going straight from Suntour Superbe to Campag back in the early nineties.

You've got to ask why are you changing anyway, is the existing Drivetrain wornout & need replacing?

What Shimano Groupset have you got 105/Ultegra?

Even though Centaur is 3rd in Line in Campag Group sets and therefore would be considered equavilant to Shimano 105 I and many others would consider Campag Centaur closer to Ultegra in quality etc. Others may disagree.

The general thought is that Campag lasts longer and with Centaur and above you can change up or down more than 1 gear at a time ie 3 or 4 gears, great if you need to jump onto that sprint breakaway or quickly change down as the bunch has suddenly slowed etc.

Of course you can also look at the Sram stuff, a friend really likes his new Force Groupset although still getting used to it.

AussieRider said:

OK I'll admitt right upfront that I'm biased totaly towards Campagnolo, I've never actually owned a Road Bike with Shimano & never would, going straight from Suntour Superbe to Campag back in the early nineties.

You've got to ask why are you changing anyway, is the existing Drivetrain wornout & need replacing?

What Shimano Groupset have you got 105/Ultegra?

Even though Centaur is 3rd in Line in Campag Group sets and therefore would be considered equavilant to Shimano 105 I and many others would consider Campag Centaur closer to Ultegra in quality etc. Others may disagree.

The general thought is that Campag lasts longer and with Centaur and above you can change up or down more than 1 gear at a time ie 3 or 4 gears, great if you need to jump onto that sprint breakaway or quickly change down as the bunch has suddenly slowed etc.

Of course you can also look at the Sram stuff, a friend really likes his new Force Groupset although still getting used to it.

I have 105, and only want to replace, if anything, the shifters, rear derailleur and if essential the cassette. The 105 front derailleur shifting is beginning to become different and hard to keep adjusted. They are also very heavy and if they do break, are not rebuildable.

I can get 07 campag at a pretty decent price, and the ergopowers for centaur look beautiful, (i can get them for ,<$200 AUD) and the new rear derailleur does too. It will save about 250g, which is quite significant. But it is definitely not essential, and i just would like to see opinions on whether it is a ridiculous idea or if it has some sense.

(Plus, I think Shimano and BMC don't mix)

Centaur maybe 3rd in line in the Campy group but it is not to be compared to the 3rd in line of Shimano, certainly not in terms of quality. Current centaur is chorus of 2 years ago and same with current chorus which is record of 2 years ago. Record just keeps on improving and this technology is trickled down to the next in line grouppo after a couple of years.

bobbyOCR said:

I am thinking of making the slight change from Shimano to Centaur (budget issue). It is only slight because I want to keep my beloved HollowtechII crankset. The parts I would change are the RD, the cassette (duh, and therefore the rear freehub at least) and the shifters. I have a KMC X10SL chain coming so i don't need to worry.

My question is, is this worth it at all. Is Campagnolo any better than Shimano, or is it a pointless change?

It is not pointless if you want a new group. So what if your current group is fine and you want a new one.....go and get your new one. If you feel bad about the money sell you old one on ebay and will you get some money of it it.

i would say go ride a campy bike at your LBS see what u like better. i have ridden campy and shimano and like campy better, but it's all personal preferance, the 07 centaur is neat tho with the carbon upgrades. i believe centaur is exactly like chorus but uses a bushing instead of a sealed bearing to shift.

AussieRider said:

The general thought is that Campag lasts longer and with Centaur and above you can change up or down more than 1 gear at a time ie 3 or 4 gears, great if you need to jump onto that sprint breakaway or quickly change down as the bunch has suddenly slowed etc.

Just be careful here. Campag did some design/function changes to their 2007 range of shifters from Centaur and down. The improved mechanism in them is supposedly simpler, lighter but lost the multi-shift ability. Record and Chorus preserved the multi-shift capability. So I'd suggest bobbyOCR should search for one of those heavily discounted 2006 shifter in the Centaur line, or go for Chorus 2007 shifter instead. They are far less expensive on eBay and OS mail-order places. In any case, AFAIK, 2007 Centaurs are not locally available yet in Oz.

I replaced my Ultegra shifters with a pair of Chorus carbon shifters (the ultegras went on another bike).

I have to say that there wasnt much difference in the efficiency and reliability of shifting. But the feeling of the shift is different. I liked the braking of the Campy levers better than the Shimano.

The shape of the hoods are also different, and for me I had to reduce the length of my stem slightly.

I did not swap any other part of the drivetrain, and used the Jtek shiftmate device. This allows you to retain your shimano wheelset, cassette and chain. They are much cheaper than the equivalent Campy alternatives. Those are the parts that will need most likely need replacement due to usage, rather than the shifters.

Bear in mind, the cable routing will be different as well, and you will need new cables (they should be supplied with your new Campy shifters tho).

bobbyOCR said:

I have 105, and only want to replace, if anything, the shifters, rear derailleur and if essential the cassette. The 105 front derailleur shifting is beginning to become different and hard to keep adjusted. They are also very heavy and if they do break, are not rebuildable.
<snip>
But it is definitely not essential, and i just would like to see opinions on whether it is a ridiculous idea or if it has some sense.

If it were me, I'd keep riding it until I wore out the parts on my existing drivetrain.

Don't really see the sense of dropping cash for stuff you don't *need*. Sure you can get some of it back by selling your existing gear second hand, but whether how much you would spend/get back, and the value of the time you put in is woth it is for you to decide.

n

AussieRider said:

... with Centaur and above you can change up or down more than 1 gear at a time ie 3 or 4 gears, great if you need to jump onto that sprint breakaway or quickly change down as the bunch has suddenly slowed etc.

You can do that with ANY current shape campag ergos from Record all the way down to Xenon (not including some forthcoming 2007 kit which I know nothing about).

bobbyOCR said:

The 105 front derailleur shifting is beginning to become different and hard to keep adjusted.

Try cleaning & lubing the cables ... OR, replacing the cables & housing.

Don't forget the short piece of housing that feeds into the rear derailleur.

alfeng said:

Try cleaning & lubing the cables ... OR, replacing the cables & housing.

Don't forget the short piece of housing that feeds into the rear derailleur.

I have just replaced all of those, and also spent a few rides and 1/2 hour off the bike compressing the housings. The issue I have is the FD cable has no adjuster anywhere along the cable on the SL01, so i think the campy style would be alot simpler. I have also had to replace the left hand shifter because of a cracked internal which stopped the indexing from working, that cost about $200. I also don't like the look of 105 on the SL01 (excluding the cranks) and think the new carbon on centaur would look very nice.

The JTek, does that mean I can use a campy derailleur/shifter with a shimano cassette? If it does, that would be excellent.

The multi shift would be handy in a crit. But where can I get Chorus cheaply?

I like the idea of non-front indexing and the rebuildability. I think they would pay for themselves after a few seasons.

bobbyOCR said:

The multi shift would be handy in a crit. But where can I get Chorus cheaply?

Just need to further clarify what I wrote earlier regarding Campag 2007 shifters. The new Escape shifter mechanism in Centaur and below actually permits up to 2 cog downshift rather than the maximal 9 cogs downshift that's possible on Chorus and Record shifters. There's a nice article here,

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/features/campaggroups2007

As for cheaper components, I'd suggest that you go and search eBay, especially eBay US's site. There are many sellers who are happy to ship internationally for around US$25-30. Overall, you'll still be on top.

bobbyOCR said:

The JTek, does that mean I can use a campy derailleur/shifter with a shimano cassette? If it does, that would be excellent.

The Jtek device allows you to use your whole drive train with the Campy shifters. You only need to get the Campy shifter and the Jtek device. Essentially it modifies the cable pull ratio of the Campy shifter to match that of the Shimano shifter.

bobbyOCR said:

I like the idea of non-front indexing and the rebuildability. I think they would pay for themselves after a few seasons.

The Campy front is indexed, but in smaller steps ... if that makes any sense. You have several clicks before the click that actually shifts the chain.

Think of it as several of those trimming clicks that you have on the Shimano shifters.

thomas_cho said:

The Campy front is indexed, but in smaller steps ... if that makes any sense. You have several clicks before the click that actually shifts the chain.

Think of it as several of those trimming clicks that you have on the Shimano shifters.

I know exactly what you mean. They are between full indexing and friction shifting. The Shimano trimming feature is next to useless.

thomas_cho said:

The Jtek device allows you to use your whole drive train with the Campy shifters. You only need to get the Campy shifter and the Jtek device. Essentially it modifies the cable pull ratio of the Campy shifter to match that of the Shimano shifter.

Maybe, but I want the new centaur carbon 😎 derailleur, not the shimano one. I am asking is it possible to use a Jtek with campag shifter and derailleur to achieve shimano indexing.

thomas_cho said:

The Campy front is indexed, but in smaller steps ... if that makes any sense. You have several clicks before the click that actually shifts the chain.

Think of it as several of those trimming clicks that you have on the Shimano shifters.

The trimming clicking action is commonly referred to as index shifting, invented by Suntour. Those clicks are indexes.

Pre-2005 record/chorus/centaur... FDs have the spring set on too hard so riders with shorter fingers or weaker wrist action find it harder/tiresome to shift. For 2005 and beyond, campy actually detuned the spring to make it softer.

bobbyOCR said:

I know exactly what you mean. They are between full indexing and friction shifting. The Shimano trimming feature is next to useless.

Maybe, but I want the new centaur carbon 😎 derailleur, not the shimano one. I am asking is it possible to use a Jtek with campag shifter and derailleur to achieve shimano indexing.

Yes you can.

thomas_cho said:

Yes you can.

Ah, thank you. Nothing like such an answer.

bobbyOCR said:

Ah, thank you. Nothing like such an answer.

There are several models to choose from, be sure to choose the right one for your needs when you order it.

On a separate note, what are the chances of the carbon caged rear d. breaking in a fall?

Good luck in your bike renovations!