confession....two of my four were used.....(but all bought from dealers) jd
"db" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jack, Mea culpa. I started with a used Tiger not knowing if I'd keep with it or not, as I hadn't
> been on a bike in years. Then I ran across the Quetzal on
a
> business trip to Minneapolis (Calhoun Cycle - great folks) and shipped it home on a whim. My
> daughter (13 then) took to it like chocolate, and first thing you know, she and I were riding the
> MS150. An awesome Dad-Daughter adventure we'll always remember. The BikeE I bought on another
> business
trip
> (Calhoun again) with the intention of modifying it ("LowE") but my wife
took
> to it, and soon the 3 of us were riding the Seagull Century. Now I'm modifying the Quetzal to suit
> my son (8 years old) because it is a child-size frame, which I've seen no where else. The Kidzbent
> seems too
have
> disappeared about as I was gonna buy one.
>
> My daughter was outgrowing the Quetzal, and wanted something faster, so I bought a used 2000 R40
> locally (it had a Calhoun sticker on it - can you believe it? I live in Virginia). She loves it,
> and I tried it and was very impressed. I then went to Bikes at Vienna and elected to buy an R40
> demo rather than a new R40. In retrospect, not buying the new one was a
mistake,
> particularly after buying a new one (from Calhoun) for my wife. The improvements in the design are
> worth paying for.
>
> How many others started used and moved to new bikes?
>
> As I realized that I had found an activity that the whole family could do
at
> once (as opposed to activities where one person "does" and the others "watch") the return on
> investment of a new bike suddenly grew a lot. Now being able to take family rides easily justifies
> bike money I would never have even considered before. I even bought a full-size van to carry them
so
> we can travel and bike (hoping to do the Bentrider ride in August with the whole family.)
>
> I think another thing that's not helping Vision is that folks appear to be letting them go - have
> you seen how many used ones are being advertised?
>
> I just lament the fact that such a fine product might be leaving the fray. Have I helped? Well, I
> have voted with my wallet once, and as things progress, I probably will again. All these Vision
> accessories I bought
will
> probably mount very nicely on a shiny new Volae... or a Tidal Wave for
that
> matter... but I'm really kinda still pulling for Vision. That Blue OSS R40 on clearance is
> tempting...
>
> Be Well, All...
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> "Jack Davis" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
>
news:[email protected]...
> > Doug,
> >
> > Your first two paragraphs are quite revealing and relevant to the
> "problem".
> > Out of six bikes total, you bought only one new one. The five used
bikes
> > did nothing to help the companies stay afloat. How many of us buy more
> used
> > bikes than new ones?
> >
> > Sometimes rapid success can spell disaster for a startup company. This
> has
> > been especially true with the increasing popularity of internet
> businesses.
> > A small company with a good product can be forced into too rapid and too great an expansion
> > expenditure in an effort to keep up with demand. If there is even a small dip in that demand
> > they can find themselves in a serious cash-flow problem.
> >
> > RANS had a big demand for their V2F but production problems, (off-shore)
> has
> > drastically delayed the time it is going to take to get a significant
> number
> > of bikes to dealers and customers. By the time they finally arrives
they
> > are "old-news" and other makes and other models have come along. Their
> total
> > sales of the V2F will not likely be anything like it could have been if
> the
> > bike was in dealers stores when the initial demand was there. If bikes
> were
> > RANS only product, or if they had fewer models, they could be in a
serious
> > situation now.
> >
> > Many hobby products, including bikes, are subject to fads and the short attention span of
> > consumers. We want the newest and best, (?) item possible. Many new models flourish for a while
> > and are then replaced by another new model. (retailers nightmare) When they are "HOT" dealers
> can't
> > get them and when they can get them they are no longer in demand. Little wonder that many
> > dealers will not, or can not,. have much of an inventory. Since it is difficult to sell what you
> > don't have the whole industry suffers and staggers along.
> >
> > But.... isn't it interesting?! After all, how many other products would
> you
> > drive 50 to 100 miles just to see and try?
> >
> > JD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "db" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > > Brian and Mike...
> > >
> > > You have interesting observations.
> > >
> > > I bought 2 used R40s, on for me and one for my daughter, having
> previously
> > > bought a used Rotator Tiger, a used Quetzal C24 child's length bike,
and
> a
> > > used BikeE CT.
> > >
> > > Finally, when my wife took active interest in riding, I decided to buy
> her
> > a
> > > sparkly new R40 for Christmas. We settled on the R40 as our "standard
> > bike"
> > > becasue of its all-around performance and easy access to accessories.
It
> > > also seemed to be a stable company (October 2003).
> > >
> > > So it got me to thinking about who seems to be surviving and who's
not,
> > and
> > > how they might differ.
> > >
> > > I was once involved in a very small business that didn't make it, and
> the
> > > killer was cash flow. You could sell all day and look good on paper,
but
> > if
> > > the money was slow-moving, it was tough to pay employees, and then
> bills,
> > > and then yourself. One day you'd find that you just couldn't hold your breath long enough.
> > >
> > > So what occurred to me was that maybe the companies who retain
> fabrication
> > > in the US in their own shops, can limit the amount of money that they
> have
> > > tied-up in partially-finished bikes to very close to their demand
level.
> > > They can have small investments in tubing, and essentially build on
> > demand.
> > > They are liquid and can react very quickly. They have efficient
> throughput
> > > vs. cash flow from small batch sizes. Worst case, you can still sell
the
> > > tubing in liquidation because it has some value before it's brazed on.
> > It's
> > > like Just-In-Time production.
> > >
> > > When the move is made to Taiwan production, suddenly that changes. Now
> you
> > > have a large batch investment in full frames, with a long lead time.
Big
> > > cash flow impact.
> > >
> > > Also, where before there was just a pile of tubing costing money,
these
> > > expensive frames make you zero money until they become completed
bikes,
> > > which means components. So while you can string the component
purchases
> > out,
> > > the big frame investment is still immobile money until bike meets
buyer.
> > And
> > > an unfinished frame has negative value, because it's not even sellable
> raw
> > > material.
> > >
> > > So I'm guessing that the cashflow threshold and timing for a Taiwan
> > decision
> > > is very critical, and not someothing you should do if you're already
in
> > > marginal condition.
> > >
> > > RANS and Rotator seem to do quite well for themselves. Actionbent,
which
> > > flips the entire model backwards and does everything in Taiwan, also
> > appears
> > > to be doing okay. BikeE, and now Vision, may have moved too quickly. I wonder how much of
> > > BikeE's cash flow restriction had to do with
getting
> > > certified replacement forks and seats in quick enough time.
> > >
> > > Just idle wondering... there are a lot of smart folks who read this
> > group.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Schwab" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > > > The story I was verbally told about Watoerford bicycles: Schwinn started manufacturing off-
> > > > shore. Schwinn started to shut down it's Waterford Wisconsin factory. The employees got
> > > > together, bought the plant, founding Waterford
> Cycles.
> > > > Waterford is still going strong. Schwinn filed for bankruptcy two years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Brian Zupke wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Or it could be:
> > > > >
> > > > > A bike is made successfully in small quantities in the US.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rising costs without significant sales growth (and/or possible
poor
> > > business management) erodes profit margins to the point the company is operating at a loss.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bike maker transfers production to Taiwan to improve profit margin
> to
> > > essentially stay in business but only prolonging/delaying the
> inevitable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Had the company not done the outsourcing, it may have simply gone
> out
> > of
> > > business sooner.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Brian
> > > > >
> > > > > db wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Brad... maybe not your fault.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Anyone else noticed the following?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >A bike is made successfully in small quantities in the US.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Bike maker transfers production to Taiwan to improve profit
margin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Some period of time later, bike manufacturer goes out of
business.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > >
http://home.earthlink.net/~bzupke/index.html Bike Friday Club:
> > > > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bfclubieca/ Cycling Connection:
> > > > >
http://www.cyclingconnection.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
>
