UK and Europe · Public discussion

The HWcode today in parliament.

Started by Martin Dann · · Last activity · 13 posts · 389 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
5 June 2007
Last activity
8 June 2007
Original author
Martin Dann
Posts
13
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
389
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–13 of 13
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtoday/cmwms/archive/070605.htm#hddr_17

    Quoted message said:

    TRANSPORT
    Revised Highway Code

    The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Dr. Stephen Ladyman): In February 2006 we issued a draft of proposed revisions to the Highway Code for public consultation, which closed on 15 May 2006. Over 4,000 people offered a total of almost 27,000 comments.

    Taking account of these comments, a new draft version of the Highway Code was laid before Parliament on 28 March 2007. A large number of responses to the consultation concerned the rules on cycling and more than 40 amendments were made to these and other rules to take account of comments from cyclists. However, since the code was laid before Parliament, further representations have been made by cyclists who remain concerned that the revised text of rules 61 and 63 on cycle facilities and cycle lanes is insufficiently clear.

    Following informal discussions with the CTC, an organisation representing cyclists, we are proposing changes to draft rules 61 and 63 to make clearer the position regarding the advice in the code on the use of cycle facilities and cycle lanes. On 31 May the Department for Transport wrote to key road safety interests, including members of the Road Safety Advisory Panel, as well as cycling and walking representative bodies, concerning further changes to the Highway Code. A copy of the Department’s letter has been placed in the Library of both Houses.

    We have asked stakeholders to let us have their views by the end of Tuesday 12 June. The reason for this short timescale is so as not to unduly delay the publication of the new edition of the Highway Code. Any proposed changes have to be laid in Parliament for 40 days before they can come into effect, so will need to be laid by 15 June if the 40-day period is to be completed before summer recess. Views are requested by 12 June to allow time for them to be considered before laying the changes in Parliament. We would then expect to publish the revised edition of the Highway Code in September.

    And CTC's petition to endorse the changes.
    http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4855

    Quoted message said:

    I welcome the Government’s decision to amend the cycling section of the Highway Code.

    I welcome their recognition that use of cycle facilities and cycle lanes is "not compulsory" and will "depend on your skills and experience”.

    I support CTC’s response to the consultation.

    Martin.

  2. Martin Dann said:
    Quoted message said:

    The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Dr. Stephen
    Ladyman):

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    A large number of responses to the consultation concerned the
    rules on cycling and more than 40 amendments were made to these
    and other rules to take account of comments from cyclists.

    Except that they seemed to ignore the comments from cyclists
    altogether.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    However, since the code was laid before Parliament, further
    representations have been made by cyclists who remain concerned
    that the revised text of rules 61 and 63 on cycle facilities and cycle
    lanes is insufficiently clear.

    Lack of clarity was hardly the issue. I suppose that's the straightest
    talk we're likely to get from him.

    --
    Dave...

  3. Martin Dann said:


    <http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtoday/cmwms/archive/07060
    5.htm#hddr_17>

    Quoted message said:

    TRANSPORT
    Revised Highway Code

    The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Dr. Stephen Ladyman):
    In February 2006 we issued a draft of proposed revisions to the Highway
    Code for public consultation, which closed on 15 May 2006. Over 4,000
    people offered a total of almost 27,000 comments.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Following informal discussions with the CTC, an organisation
    representing cyclists, we are proposing changes to draft rules 61 and 63
    to make clearer the position regarding the advice in the code on the use
    of cycle facilities and cycle lanes.

    It's a pity that Dr. Ladyman does not mention the representations to MPs
    and Lords made by cyclists who may not be members of the CTC.

    Quoted message said:

    And CTC's petition to endorse the changes.
    http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4855

    Quoted message said:

    I welcome the Government's decision to amend the cycling section of the
    Highway Code.

    I welcome their recognition that use of cycle facilities and cycle lanes
    is "not compulsory" and will "depend on your skills and experience".

    I support CTC's response to the consultation.

    I will not be signing the CTC's petition. I was planning to join them
    until last month. Right now, they need to do rather a lot to demonstrate
    to me that they mean business.

    Cheers,
    Luke

    --
    Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
    exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

  4. On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:46:57 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtoday/cmwms/archive/070605.htm#hddr_17

    Quoted message said:

    A copy of the Department’s letter has been placed in the Library of both Houses.

    Not much use to any of us plebs. A quick look at the Westminster web
    site didn't reveal a way of us plebs reading what is in that
    library.

    I'll ask my MP what it says.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh
    I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

  5. David Hansen said:

    On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:46:57 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    A copy of the Department’s letter has been placed in the Library of both Houses.

    Not much use to any of us plebs. A quick look at the Westminster web
    site didn't reveal a way of us plebs reading what is in that
    library.

    I don't think plebes can see what's in the library. I think it's
    deliberate - putting something in the library avoids its appearance in
    the public record. Answers are periodically provided which basically
    say "an answer to question blaah has been put in the library".

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  6. On 06 Jun 2007 12:46:01 GMT someone who may be Ian Smith
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not much use to any of us plebs. A quick look at the Westminster web
    site didn't reveal a way of us plebs reading what is in that
    library.

    I don't think plebes can see what's in the library. I think it's
    deliberate - putting something in the library avoids its appearance in
    the public record.

    I think you are right. That sounds just like the sort of thing the
    Westminster rogues gallery would do.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh
    I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

  7. Ian Smith said:


    I don't think plebes can see what's in the library. I think it's
    deliberate - putting something in the library avoids its appearance in
    the public record. Answers are periodically provided which basically
    say "an answer to question blaah has been put in the library".

    regards, Ian SMith

    Dr. Ladyman you have let the motoring public down. There is a bottle of
    whisky and a revolver in the library :-)

    (I'm just pleased that we (the community of cyclists, not just the CTC)
    made /some/ difference. The new rules could be improved but they are a
    million times better than "whenever possible" versions.

    Peter

    --
    www.amey.org.uk

  8. Ian Smith said:

    I don't think plebes can see what's in the library. I think it's
    deliberate - putting something in the library avoids its appearance in
    the public record. Answers are periodically provided which basically
    say "an answer to question blaah has been put in the library".


    According to the House of Commons factsheet on deposited papers
    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/P15.pdf

    "Members of the public do not have access to the House of Commons
    Library. The first port of call for a member of the public who wants
    access to a Deposited Paper would normally be the Parliamentary Clerk of
    the depositing Government Department. In most cases, the Parliamentary
    Clerk is obliged to arrange for access to be given to it under the
    provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, though there may be a
    charge for this."

    I don't think you are going to see a copy of this by the 15th June
    deadline using this route though.
    Adam

  9. David Hansen said:

    On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:46:57 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    A copy of the Department’s letter has been placed in the Library of both Houses.

    Not much use to any of us plebs. A quick look at the Westminster web
    site didn't reveal a way of us plebs reading what is in that
    library.

    I'll ask my MP what it says.

    I received a copy from my MP this morning. The content is much the same
    as the written statement at
    <http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wms/?id=2007-06-05a.14WS.3&s=cycling#g14WS.4>

    I might find time to type it in tomorrow, if no-one else does it first.

    --
    Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
    Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
    "Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
    Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2

  10. Danny Colyer said:
    David Hansen said:

    On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:46:57 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    A copy of the Department's letter has been placed in the Library of both
    Houses.

    Not much use to any of us plebs. A quick look at the Westminster web
    site didn't reveal a way of us plebs reading what is in that
    library.

    I'll ask my MP what it says.

    I received a copy from my MP this morning. The content is much the same
    as the written statement at
    <http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wms/?id=2007-06-05a.14WS.3&s=cycling#g14WS.
    4>

    Mark Hendrick MP (Lab, Preston) still hasn't found the time to reply,
    even though the Government has now made life quite easy for him.

    Cheers,
    Luke

    --
    Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
    exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

  11. On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:23:39 +0100 someone who may be Adam B
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    According to the House of Commons factsheet on deposited papers
    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/P15.pdf

    "Members of the public do not have access to the House of Commons
    Library. The first port of call for a member of the public who wants
    access to a Deposited Paper would normally be the Parliamentary Clerk of
    the depositing Government Department. In most cases, the Parliamentary
    Clerk is obliged to arrange for access to be given to it under the
    provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, though there may be a
    charge for this."

    I don't think you are going to see a copy of this by the 15th June
    deadline using this route though.

    Indeed.

    The beadle is presumably in London and arranging access sounds
    suspiciously like arranging for a pleb to come to London and see the
    piece of paper concerned.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh
    I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

  12. Danny Colyer said:

    I received a copy from my MP this morning. The content is much the same
    as the written statement at
    <http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wms/?id=2007-06-05a.14WS.3&s=cycling#g14WS.4>

    I might find time to type it in tomorrow, if no-one else does it first.

    Good job I'm a demon typist. Here goes:

    ==Letter 1:====
    Dear Colleague

    I am writing to all MPs about cyclists' concerns regarding certain
    aspects of rules 61 and 63 of the proposed revisions to the Highway
    Code. You will be pleased to know that, having listened to the concerns
    of cyclists, we are seeking views from key stakeholders on proposals for
    further changes to these rules . A copy of the letter sent to
    stakeholders is attached.

    Following informal discussions with CTC, we are proposing changes to
    draft rules 61 and 63 to make clearer the position regarding the advice
    in the Code on the use of cycle facilities and cycle lanes, so as to
    remove any possible doubt about their meaning.

    We are seeking views on these two revised rules from key road safety
    interests by the end of Tuesday 12 June, including members of the Road
    Safety Advisory Panel, as well as cycling and walking representative
    bodies. A full list of those invited to comment is included in the
    letter. The reason for this very short timescale is so as not to unduly
    delay the publication of the new edition of the Highway Code. Any
    proposed changes have to be laid in Parliament for 40 days before they
    can come into effect, so will need to be laid by 15 June at the latest
    if the 40 day period is to be completed before summer recess. Subject
    to consideration of any responses to this consultation, we would then
    expect to publish the revised edition of the Highway Code in September.

    A copy of this letter is also being sent to Lord Haskel, Lord Greaves,
    Lord Hanningfield, Lord Bradshaw, Lord Bassam and Baroness Crawley

    Stephen Ladyman

    ==Letter 2:====
    FURTHER CHANGES TO DRAFT RULES 61 AD 63 OF THE PROPOSED REVISED HIGHWAY CODE

    I am writing to seek your views on further revisions to two draft rules
    of the proposed Highway Code concerning cycle facilities and cycle
    lanes. For reasons set out below, I am seeking your views by no later
    than the end of Tuesday 12 June.

    *Background*

    In February 2006 we issued a draft of proposed revisions to the Highway
    Code for public consultation, which closed on 15 May 2006. Over 4,000
    people offered a total of almost 27,000 comments.

    Taking account of these comments, a new draft version of the Highway
    Code was laid before Parliament on 28 March 2007. A large number of
    responses to the consultation concerned the rules on cycling and more
    than 40 amendments were made to these and other rules to take account of
    comments from cyclists. However, since the Code was laid before
    Parliament, further representations have been made by cyclists who
    remain concerned that the revised text of rules 61 and 63 on cycle
    facilities and cycle lanes is insufficiently clear.

    *Proposed change*

    Having considered these further representations carefully, we believe
    that there is merit in amending and expanding rules 61 and 63, so as to
    remove any possible doubt about their meaning. We are therefore now
    proposing to include revised versions of rules 61 and 63. We have
    discussed these changes informally with CTC, the cyclists' organisation.
    The proposed revised versions are as follows:-

    61 Cycle Facilities. Use cycle routes, advanced stop lines, cycle boxes
    and toucan crossings unless at the time it is unsafe to do so. Use of
    these facilities is not compulsory and will depend on your experience
    and skills, but they can make your journey safer.

    63 Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken)
    along the carriageway (see Rule 140). When using a cycle lane, keep
    within the lane when practicable. When leaving a cycle lane check
    before pulling out that it is safe to do so and signal your intention
    clearly to other road users. Use of these facilities is not compulsory
    and will depend on your experience and skills, but they can make your
    journey safer.

    These changes make clearer the position regarding the advice in the Code
    on the use of cycle facilities and cycle lanes. The purpose of the
    Code is to help cyclists and all other road users to use the roads as
    safely as possible. It does so in two ways. It explains the law and it
    provides advice and guidance on safe behaviour in areas not covered by
    legislation.

    Rules 61 and 63 are part of the advice and guidance and do not set out
    legal requirements, which, as explained in the Introduction to the Code,
    are indicated by the words MUST or MUST NOT. The revised wording for
    rules 61 and 63 makes it clearer that use of cycle facilities and cycle
    lanes is not compulsory and that these rules do not introduce any legal
    requirements.

    Cycle facilities and cycle lanes are provided to help cyclists.
    Cyclists are entitled to use their experience and judgment [sic] in
    deciding when to use cycle facilities and cycle lanes. The proposed
    changes also make this clearer.

    *Timetable*

    We are seeking views on these two revised rules by no later than the end
    of Tuesday 12 June.

    We are seeking views from key road safety interests, including members
    of the Road safety Advisory Panel, as well as cycling and walking
    representative bodies. A full list of those being asked to comment is
    attached. Please let us know if you think we have omitted any
    organisation that may have a view on these changes.

    The reason for this very short timescale is to avoid unduly delaying
    the publication of the new edition of the Highway Code. Any proposed
    changes to the code have to be laid in Parliament for 40 days before
    they can come into effect. The Parliamentary summer recess begins on 26
    July 2007. This means that, subject to the views expressed in response
    to this letter ,we would have to lay these changes by no later than 15
    June in order to complete the laying period before the recess.

    This would enable the publication of the new edition of the Highway code
    by the end of September. If we are unable to lay changes by 15th June
    this would mean the new edition could not be published until December at
    the earliest. A delay in issuing the Code would mean delaying the
    benefits of applying all the improved advice for all road users that it
    contains, including advice to motorists to be more aware of vulnerable
    road users such as cyclists.

    Please send any comments by no later than the end of Tuesday 12 June.
    If possible, it would be helpful to have your comments before the
    deadline but there is no difficulty if you are not able to reply before
    then - your comments will still be properly considered. Please respond
    to me at:-

    [e-mail address removed for posting to usenet]

    If you do not have e-mail access, please contact me at the above address.

    Yours faithfully,

    Andrew Colski
    Vulnerable Road Users Branch
    Road User Safety Division.
    ============

    There then follows a list of individuals who are invited to respond, and
    the organisations that they represent, which I CBA to copy out. It
    includes Roger Geffen, Kevin Mayne and John Grimshaw.

    --
    Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
    Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
    "Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
    Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2

  13. On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:06:07 +0100 someone who may be Danny Colyer
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I might find time to type it in tomorrow, if no-one else does it first.

    Good job I'm a demon typist.

    Thanks for doing this.

    Quoted message said:

    ==Letter 1:====
    Dear Colleague
    [various snips]
    The reason for this very short timescale is

    That they got it wrong, for reasons that have yet to be explained
    but are probably due to their world view being via the windscreen of
    a motor vehicle.

    Quoted message said:

    ==Letter 2:====
    FURTHER CHANGES TO DRAFT RULES 61 AD 63 OF THE PROPOSED REVISED HIGHWAY CODE

    In February 2006 we issued a draft of proposed revisions to the Highway
    Code for public consultation, which closed on 15 May 2006. Over 4,000
    people offered a total of almost 27,000 comments.

    Taking account of these comments,

    Why do these officials feel compelled to lie in this way? It is a
    fact that they didn't take account of these comments and no amount
    of lying will change that.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh
    I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.