The Graciousness Of A Champion

Well what the hell else was he gonna say...?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From VeloNews online:

"I have had a fantastic time on the team, and I will thank the whole team for their great support
they have given me," Hamilton continued. "They all have a big honor for the results I have
achieved through the past two

years

Quoted message said:

at CSC."

Bravo for Tyler's class.

He might have been as gracious as yourself and told the writers that the team was nothing but [censored]
and that he acheived everything on his own. You know - just the sort of thing you'd not only say,
but believe.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well what the hell else was he gonna say...?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From VeloNews online:

"I have had a fantastic time on the team, and I will thank the

whole team

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for their great support they have given me," Hamilton continued.

"They all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have a big honor for the results I have achieved through the past

two

Quoted message said:

years

Quoted message said:

at CSC."

Bravo for Tyler's class.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well what the hell else was he gonna say...?

"I'M GOING TO DISNEYLAND!"

It be a pisser and insult to Tyler should CSC find the $ to pick-up Urlich &
Co.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From VeloNews online:

"I have had a fantastic time on the team, and I will thank the whole team for their great support
they have given me," Hamilton continued. "They all have a big honor for the results I have
achieved through the past two

years

Quoted message said:

at CSC."

Bravo for Tyler's class.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well what the hell else was he gonna say...?

No [censored].

How about (hypothetically):

"I'm going to the crappier team because of the cash dollars. Thanks for the memories"

There are a lot of compliments to be made about T. Hamilton, but it's premature to label him a
'champion'. The first requisite for that description is winning and he has won what? the Dauphine 3
years ago and LBL and a Tour stage this year. The publicity and admiration he gets is out of
proportion to his results thus far, because of drama - his propensity for crashing and his ability
to ride through pain.

"wannagofast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It be a pisser and insult to Tyler should CSC find the $ to pick-up Urlich

&

Quoted message said:

Co.

Uh, ok. Why is that?

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There are a lot of compliments to be made about T. Hamilton, but it's premature to label him a
'champion'. The first requisite for that description is winning and he has won what? the Dauphine
3 years ago and

LBL

Quoted message said:

and a Tour stage this year. The publicity and admiration he gets is out of proportion to his
results thus far, because of drama - his propensity for crashing and his ability to ride
through pain.

2003
. 1st overall Tour de Romandie
. 1st stage Tour de Romandie
. 1st Liège-Bastogne-Liège
. 2nd overall Vuelta al Pais Vasco
. 2nd prologue Paris - Nice
. 3rd stage Paris - Nice
. 3rd 3 stages Vuelta al Pais Vasco
. 4th stage Tour de Romandie
. 5th stage Critérium International
. 5th stage Tour de Romandie
. 6th overall Critérium International
. 7th prologue Tour de Romandie
. 14th Flèche Wallonne

2002
. 1st stage Giro D'Italia
. 1st Grand Prix CSC Scandihealth
. 2nd overall Giro D'Italia
. 2nd stage Tour of Denmark
. 3rd stage Tour de France (TTT)
. 4th overall Tour of Denmark
. 5th stage Giro D'Italia
. 5th stage Giro D'Italia
. 6th stage Giro D'Italia
. 8th stage Tour of Denmark
. 9th stage Rhonde van Nederland
. 10th overall Rhonde van Nederland
. 11th stage Tour de France
. 12th stage Tour de France
. 15th overall Tour de France
. 16th 2 stages Tour de France
. 22nd stage Setmana-Catalana

2001
. 3rd two stages Tour de Suisse
. 5th stage Bicicleta Vasca
. 8th overall Bicicleta Vasca
. 8th stage Circuit de la Sarthe
. 13th overall Circuit de la Sarthe
. 14th overall Tour de Suisse
. 15th stage Bicicleta Vasca

2000
. 1st overall Dauphine Libere
. 1st stage Dauphine Libere
. 1st stage Dauphine Libere
. 2nd stage Tour de France
. 3rd stage Dauphine Libere
. 4th stage Tour de France
. 4th stage Vuelta a Murcia
. 7th stage Setmana Catalana
. 7th stage Route du Sud
. 9th stage Tour de France
. 9th Classique des Alpes
. 25th overall Tour de France

1999
. 1st Mt Washington Hill Climb (new course record)
. 1st overall Tour of Denmark
. 1st stage Tour of Denmark
. 2nd stage Route du Sud
. 3rd stage Circuit de la Sarthe
. 3rd stage Tour de France
. 5th stage Tour de France
. 5th prologue Dauphine Libere
. 9th stage Dauphine Libere
. 10th stage Route du Sud
. 13th overall Tour de France
. 15th overall Dauphine Libere

1998
. 2nd stage Tour de France
. 5th overall Prutour
. 5th overall Redlands Classic
. 9th overall Circuit de la Sarthe
. 11th Corestates Hamilton Classic
. 15th overall Tour of Catalunya
. 18th First Union Classic
. 23rd overall Tour de Luxembourg
. 51st overall Tour de France

1997
. 1st Mt Washington Hill Climb (new course record)
. 1st overall Killington Stage Race
. 1st stage Killington Stage Race
. 10th First Union Grand Prix
. 69th overall Tour de France

1996
. 1st overall Fitchburg Stage Race
. 1st stage Fitchburg Stage Race
. 1st overall Teleflex Tour
. 1st stage Teleflex Tour
. 1st stage Rutas de America
. 2nd two stages Rutas de America
. 2nd Corestates Hamilton Classic
. 3rd two stages Rutas de America
. 3rd stage Teleflex tour
. 3rd TT Olympic Trials
. 4th TT Olympic Trials
. 5th overall Rutas de America
. 5th Olympic Points Standings
. 15th overall Tour of Portugal
. 23rd World TT Championships

1995
. 1st Westfield Classic
. 2nd Nevada City Classic
. 3rd two stages Fitchburg Stage Race
. 3rd two stages Cascade Classic
. 9th overall Redlands Classic
. 12th overall Tour of China
. 13th overall Tour of Holland
. 14th overall Tour Dupont
. 15th overall Bergamasca Stage Race

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

<hamilton's resume snipped>

Dumbass -

The first requisite for labeling a champion is winning.

Not second place, third place, etc.

There are a handful of active riders that moniker could be applied to right now.

Museeuw, Armstrong, Cipollini, Bettini.

Petacchi? Has only done it this year. Zabel? Lot of wins, but a lot of 2nds, 3rds. The label would
have been more apt in his heyday.

Hamilton? No way. Only a handful of wins. Good drama though.

Quoted message said:

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand

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On 9/2/03 8:56 AM, in article
[email hidden], "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

<hamilton's resume snipped>

Dumbass -

The first requisite for labeling a champion is winning.

Not second place, third place, etc.

There are a handful of active riders that moniker could be applied to right now.

Museeuw, Armstrong, Cipollini, Bettini.

Petacchi? Has only done it this year. Zabel? Lot of wins, but a lot of 2nds, 3rds. The label would
have been more apt in his heyday.

Hamilton? No way. Only a handful of wins. Good drama though.

Dumbass -

[censored]...................

cham·pi·on     P     Pronunciation Key   (ch mp-n)
g.
1) One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.

2) One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a champion at teaching.

3) An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a champion of the homeless.

4) One who fights; a warrior.

--B_3145349925_14425695 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding:
quoted-printable

<HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: The Graciousness Of A Champion</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT
FACE=3D"Verdana"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'>On 9/2/03 8:56 AM, in a= rticle
[email hidden], "Kurgan Gringion= i"
<[email hidden]> wrote:<BR> <BR> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> <BR>

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message= <BR> >

"]news:[email hidden]...<BR> > <BR> > <hamilton's
resume snipped><BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> >
Dumbass -<BR> > <BR> > The first requisite for labeling a champion is winning.<BR> > <BR>

Quoted message said:

Not second place, third place, etc.<BR> > <BR> > There are a handful of active riders

that moniker could be applied to = right<BR> > now.<BR> > <BR> > Museeuw, Armstrong,
Cipollini, Bettini.<BR> > <BR> > Petacchi? Has only done it this year. Zabel? Lot of wins, but
a lot of= 2nds,<BR> > 3rds. The label would have been more apt in his heyday.<BR> > <BR> >
Hamilton? No way. Only a handful of wins. Good drama though.<BR> > <BR> > <BR> </FONT><BR>
Dumbass -<BR> <BR> <BR>

..<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> cham&middot;pi&middot;on =A0=A0 =A0P=A0 =A0=A0 Pronunciation Key
=A0=A0(ch mp-n) <BR>
n. <BR>
1) One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.<BR> <BR>
2) One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a = champion at
teaching.<BR> <BR>
3) An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a ch= ampion of the
homeless. <BR> <BR>
4) One who fights; a warrior. <BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT> </BODY> </HTML>

--B_3145349925_14425695--

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Learn to read, Moron. Unless you don't count stage wins and wins in races you conveniently forgot
to mention. Clearly, Hamilton's palmers are more extensive than you were willing to give him
credit for in your previous post. Consider also that a number of those years he wasn't riding

primarily

Quoted message said:

for himself. Your basic problem, Henry, is that you make moronic

statements

Quoted message said:

that don't hold up to factual analysis........which is why you are, and

will

Quoted message said:

probably always be, a moron with an obsession. :-)

Dumbass -

From your post, here are his UCI wins:

2003
. 1st overall Tour de Romandie
. 1st stage Tour de Romandie
. 1st Liège-Bastogne-Liège

2002
. 1st in one stage of the Giro D'Italia
. 1st Grand Prix CSC Scandihealth

2001 no wins

2000
. 1st overall Dauphine Libere
. 1st stage Dauphine Libere
. 1st stage Dauphine Libere

1999
. 1st overall Tour of Denmark
. 1st stage Tour of Denmark

1998 none

1997 none

Non-UCI (USCF) wins don't count. There's also his stage win this year in the TdF which for some
reason you didn't include. Also, the Grand Prix CSC Scandihealth sounds like a team sponsor event
(crit), not a UCI sanctioned RR. Google turned up nothing on that race, other than it being in
his palmares.

Champion? If that moniker is pinned on him, then there are 20 or 30 active riders who also deserve
that title.

I'll stick with Museeuw, Armstrong, Cipollini, Bettini. 'Champion' is a description that ought to be
used sparingly, else it loses its meaning.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

[censored]...................

cham·pi·on P Pronunciation Key (ch mp-n)
n.
1) One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.

When I raced, I won at least a few races/year.

Damn, I must be a champion!

K. Gringioni CHAMPION

ps. what a crock

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[censored]...................

cham·pi·on P Pronunciation Key (ch mp-n)
n.
1) One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.

When I raced, I won at least a few races/year.

Damn, I must be a champion!

K. Gringioni CHAMPION

ps. what a crock

You are a Champion Moron, I'll give you that. :-)

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni CHAMPION

ps. what a crock

You are a Champion Moron, I'll give you that. :-)

Dumbass -

From: cyclinghalloffame.comranking combined overall.txOpen ↗ t

T. Hamilton is 34th place of the active riders.

324th place All-Time.

We call Merckx, Hinault, Coppi "champions" (#1,2,3 All-Time on that list)

324th? I think not.

Cyclinghalloffame stats are on a points system, there are no subjective criteria.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Cyclinghalloffame stats are on a points system, there are no subjective criteria.

How were the point values determined for each race? Isn't that likely to be subjective?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in = message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

=20
"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni CHAMPION

ps. what a crock

You are a Champion Moron, I'll give you that. :-)

=20 20 20 20 20
Dumbass -
=20 20
From:
=

cyclinghalloffame.comranking combined overall=Open ↗ .tx

Quoted message said:

t
=20 20
T. Hamilton is 34th place of the active riders.
=20
324th place All-Time.
=20 20
We call Merckx, Hinault, Coppi "champions" (#1,2,3 All-Time on that =

list)

Quoted message said:

=20 20
324th? I think not.
=20 20
Cyclinghalloffame stats are on a points system, there are no =

subjective

Quoted message said:

criteria.

There are many cycling champions, past and present. There are some = champions who are greater
than others.

Some definitions of champion:

champion (ch=E0m=B4p=EA-en) noun
1. One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.
2. One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a = champion at teaching.

Excerpted from The American Heritage=AE Dictionary of the English = Language, Third Edition =A9 1996
by Houghton Mifflin Company. = Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further
reproduction = and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United = States. All
rights reserved.

Champion, in sports, winner at the highest level of competition.

Tyler is a champion by definition.

champion (adjective)

supreme: excellent, classic, superlative, super, champion, tops, tiptop, = topnotch, topflight,
first-rate, first-class, Grade A, A-1, 5-star, = front-rank, premium, best best: best, very best,
optimum, A-1, champion, tiptop, top-notch, ace, = nothing like it

The Original Roget's Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases = (Americanized Version) is
licensed from Longman Group UK Limited. = Copyright =A9 1994 by Longman Group UK Limited. All
rights reserved.

Any number of these synonyms fit our champion Tyler.

And the following is for you, dear Moron:

Those disputing, contradicting, and confuting people are generally = unfortunate in their affairs.
They get victory, sometimes, but they = never get good will, which would be of more use to them.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-90),

The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations is licensed from Columbia = University Press. Copyright =A9
1993, 1995 by Columbia University Press. = All rights reserved.
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C37194.0DE7CF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML
6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DV><FONT size=3D2>"Kurgan Gringioni" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D""][email hidden]"><FONT=20
size=3D2>[email hidden]</FONT></A><FONT = size=3D2>>=20 wrote
in message </FONT><A=20
href=3D""]news:[email hidden]"><FONT=20
size=3D2>"]news:[email hidden]</FONT></A><F= ONT=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DVI><FONT size=3D2>> <BR>> "B. Lafferty" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D""][email hidden]"><FONT=20
size=3D2>[email hidden]</FONT></A><FONT size=3D2>> wrote in=20 message<BR>>
</FONT><A=20 href=3D""]news:[email hidden]"><FONT=
=20
size=3D2>"]news:[email hidden]</FONT=

Quoted message said:

</A><FONT=20

size=3D2>...<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > K.=20 Gringioni<BR>> > >
CHAMPION<BR>> > ><BR>> > = ><BR>>=20 > ><BR>> > ><BR>> >

Quoted message said:

ps. what a crock<BR>>=20 ><BR>> > You are a Champion Moron, I'll give you

that. =20
:-)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Dumbass =
-<BR>>=20 <BR>> <BR>> From:<BR>> </FONT><A=20
href=3D"cyclinghalloffame.comranking combined=Open ↗ _overall.tx"><FONT=20
size=3D2>cyclinghalloffame.comranking combine=Open ↗
d_overall.tx</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20 size=3D2>> t<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> T. Hamilton is 34th
place of = the active=20 riders.<BR>> <BR>> 324th place All-Time.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> =
We call=20 Merckx, Hinault, Coppi "champions" (#1,2,3 All-Time on that = list)<BR>>=20 <BR>>
<BR>> 324th? I think not.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>=20 Cyclinghalloffame stats are on a points
system, there are no = subjective<BR>>=20 criteria.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DVII><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>There are many = cycling champions,=20 past
and present. There are some champions who are greater than=20
others.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DVIII><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIX><FONT size=3D2>Some definitions of champion:</FONT></DIV>
<DX><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXI><FONT size=3D2>champion (ch=E0m=B4p=EA-en) noun<BR>1. One that = wins first=20 place
or first prize in a competition.<BR>2. One that is clearly = superior=20 or has the
attributes of a winner: a champion at teaching.</FONT></DIV>
<DXII><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXIII><FONT size=3D2>Excerpted from The American Heritage=AE Dictionary = of the=20 English
Language, Third Edition =A9 1996 by Houghton Mifflin = Company.=20 Electronic version
licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction = and=20 distribution in accordance
with the Copyright Law of the United States. = All=20 rights reserved.</FONT></DIV>
<DXIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXIV><A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <P align=3Dleft>Champion</B>, in sports, winner at the highest
level of=20 competition.</P></FONT></DIV>
<DXV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXVI><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXVII><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>Tyler is a champion = by=20
definition.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DXVIII><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXIX><FONT size=3D2>champion (adjective)</FONT></DIV>
<DXX><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXXI><FONT size=3D2>supreme: excellent, classic, superlative, super, = champion,=20 tops,
tiptop, topnotch, topflight, first-rate, first-class, Grade A, = A-1,=20 5-star,
front-rank, premium, best<BR>best: best, very best, optimum, = A-1,=20 champion, tiptop,
top-notch, ace, nothing like it</FONT></DIV>
<DXXII><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXXIII><FONT size=3D2>The Original Roget's Thesaurus of English Words and = Phrases=20
(Americanized Version) is licensed from Longman Group UK Limited. = Copyright =A9=20 1994
by Longman Group UK Limited. All rights reserved.</FONT></DIV>
<DXXIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DXXV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><STRONG>Any number of these = synonyms fit=20 our
champion Tyler.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DXXVI><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DXXVII><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>And the following is = for you,=20 dear
Moron:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DXXVIII><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXXIX><FONT size=3D2>Those disputing, contradicting, and confuting people = are=20 generally
unfortunate in their affairs. They get victory, sometimes, but = they=20 never get good
will, which would be of more use to them.<BR>Benjamin = Franklin=20 (1706-90),</FONT></DIV>
<DXXX><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DXXXI><FONT size=3D2>The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations is licensed = from=20 Columbia
University Press. Copyright =A9 1993, 1995 by Columbia = University Press.=20 All rights
reserved.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C37194.0DE7CF20--

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Isn't that likely to be subjective?

This whole thread is.

One man's champion is another man's Poulidor. Call Tyler a champion or not and I won't mind. Either
position seems reasonable to me at this point. He is certainly on the cusp. Carl was a champion or
some scale I would say. Why not Tyler then?

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Carl was a champion or some scale I would say.

I'm not too fond of scales these days ; )

The thread says that he has the graciousness of a champion. That could be true whether or not he
meets anyone's definition of a champion. Until you brought it up, no-one had said that he was, or
was not a champion. Just that he had one of the qualities of a champion. Learn to read.

Duffy

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni CHAMPION

ps. what a crock

You are a Champion Moron, I'll give you that. :-)

Dumbass -

From:

cyclinghalloffame.comranking combined overall.txOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

t

T. Hamilton is 34th place of the active riders.

324th place All-Time.

We call Merckx, Hinault, Coppi "champions" (#1,2,3 All-Time on that list)

324th? I think not.

Cyclinghalloffame stats are on a points system, there are no subjective criteria.

"Duffy Pratt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The thread says that he has the graciousness of a champion. That could be true whether or not he
meets anyone's definition of a champion. Until you brought it up, no-one had said that he was, or
was not a champion. Just that he had one of the qualities of a champion. Learn to read.

Dumbass -

That is not the stance that my protagonists have been taking. Lafferty is saying Hamilton's palmares
warrants the label of 'champion'.

As for:

"learn to read"

that is the stupidest flame ever.

K. Gringioni doesn't know how to read