The End Of New Labour?

Blair's the reason I left the UK. Thing is, I've settled where I am and probably wouldn't return even if he was kicked out. Words fail me when I see what he has done to the UK.

In the old days, as I recall, there were 3 main reasons Labour wasn't trusted:
(1) Defence (they would weaken national defence considerably)
(2) Immigration (they would fling open the borders)
(3) Economy (they would make a mess of it).
So, what did New Labour do? Militarily we now have very little clout. Any defence expert will assure you cutbacks have crippled the military and we rely totally on the U.S. for protection, making us a banana republic. 😄
Immigration goes without saying. Finally the country is asking where all these foreign prisoners might be hiding, let loose by the Home Office but it's a bit late for that now.
The economy: Heavy industry has gone down under Blair. Even my own region is beyone recognition compared to the eighties when we had some huge ceramics firms thriving and selling bone china worldwide.

Srodders said:

Blair's the reason I left the UK. Thing is, I've settled where I am and probably wouldn't return even if he was kicked out. Words fail me when I see what he has done to the UK.

Carrera said:

In the old days, as I recall, there were 3 main reasons Labour wasn't trusted:
(1) Defence (they would weaken national defence considerably)
(2) Immigration (they would fling open the borders)
(3) Economy (they would make a mess of it).
So, what did New Labour do? Militarily we now have very little clout. Any defence expert will assure you cutbacks have crippled the military and we rely totally on the U.S. for protection, making us a banana republic. 😄
Immigration goes without saying. Finally the country is asking where all these foreign prisoners might be hiding, let loose by the Home Office but it's a bit late for that now.
The economy: Heavy industry has gone down under Blair. Even my own region is beyone recognition compared to the eighties when we had some huge ceramics firms thriving and selling bone china worldwide.

I agree that Labour has drifted in the last couple of years or so.
Blair began to lose credibility when he pursued the war in Iraq.
The cracks in his support began in 2003.

In respect of the British economy the period 1997-2004 saw a rise in prosperity.
You're correct to say that "heavy industry" did decline.
I suspect that this was not due to Labour - but was due to global factors.
Shipbuilding/car manufacturing/heavy engineering are all industry's which function more effeciently in lower income economies.

As regards defence, I am not familiar enough to argue this.

The last 18 months to 2 years has seen education, social welfare, health plans all being watered down.
Throw in the controversies about "cash for honours", cherie's hair, Clarkes prisoners, Prescotts fling - there does seem to be an air of failure.
The fact that Blair and Brown are at loggerheads doesn't help either.

But if you think Cameron or Ming Campbell are an alternative..................?

Check out respectcoalition.orgrespectcoalition.orgOpen ↗ for new on the growing left wing alternative to new labour.

I've got lot of time for the policies which RESPECT and Galloway advocate.

As Dave M.C. pointed out Blair really had no choice over Iraq. The decision to invade Iraq was made by the upper echelons of the Bush Administration and Blair had to sell it to the public over here. Either he did as he was told or he risked being cut high and dry by the U.S.
Now, that was part of my argument all along. Had British governments invested in their own defence and concentrated on the economy, it would have been possible to simply abstain from the Iraq war as we did in Vietnam. Strength brings freedom and independence.
Besides, are you aware the U.S. could technically extradite any British citizen it wishes, including myself or Darkboong? This is a particularly sore point with me and I hold Blair responsible since he signed away citizen rights. Surely, a citizen of an independent country has a right to a trial and legal protection in his own country?
I don't know whether this affects Ireland too - possibly not.
Here is my point: I don't have anything in particular against the U.S. and remain sympathetic to the 9/11 incident - which destabilised American democracy and human rights somewhat, in my view. However, I don't agree with this situation whereby we become just another U.S. state when we are clearly not - historicaly speaking.

limerickman said:

I agree that Labour has drifted in the last couple of years or so.
Blair began to lose credibility when he pursued the war in Iraq.
The cracks in his support began in 2003.

In respect of the British economy the period 1997-2004 saw a rise in prosperity.
You're correct to say that "heavy industry" did decline.
I suspect that this was not due to Labour - but was due to global factors.
Shipbuilding/car manufacturing/heavy engineering are all industry's which function more effeciently in lower income economies.

As regards defence, I am not familiar enough to argue this.

The last 18 months to 2 years has seen education, social welfare, health plans all being watered down.
Throw in the controversies about "cash for honours", cherie's hair, Clarkes prisoners, Prescotts fling - there does seem to be an air of failure.
The fact that Blair and Brown are at loggerheads doesn't help either.

But if you think Cameron or Ming Campbell are an alternative..................?

Carrera said:

As Dave M.C. pointed out Blair really had no choice over Iraq. The decision to invade Iraq was made by the upper echelons of the Bush Administration and Blair had to sell it to the public over here. Either he did as he was told or he risked being cut high and dry by the U.S.
Now, that was part of my argument all along. Had British governments invested in their own defence and concentrated on the economy, it would have been possible to simply abstain from the Iraq war as we did in Vietnam. Strength brings freedom and independence.
Besides, are you aware the U.S. could technically extradite any British citizen it wishes, including myself or Darkboong? This is a particularly sore point with me and I hold Blair responsible since he signed away citizen rights. Surely, a citizen of an independent country has a right to a trial and legal protection in his own country?
I don't know whether this affects Ireland too - possibly not.
Here is my point: I don't have anything in particular against the U.S. and remain sympathetic to the 9/11 incident - which destabilised American democracy and human rights somewhat, in my view. However, I don't agree with this situation whereby we become just another U.S. state when we are clearly not - historicaly speaking.

Ok leaving 9/11 aside - why do you blame Blair for the demise of "heavy industry" ?