The Doping problem in cycling-Solutions?

Zero tolerance!

Lifetime ban of any team sponsor if just 'any member' is caught with possession or use of a banned substance.

That means goodbye to: Cofidis, Kelme, Luigas, QuickStep, and USPO.

Basically, ban all corporate advertising, that may fix the problem. (reduce it a bit)

Patrick1983 said:

Rather than go back and forth accusing riders, what would people like to see done to try to clean up the sport?

1=Life bans for first time offenders
2=Full disclsoure of all medical history to an independant body for analysis(NOT the UCI)
3=TwoYear suspension of teams if at least two riders fail tests or are found in possesion of drugs
4=Medical passport tracking all physiological points and any (unreasonable) changes in these will result in a doping positive
5=All medical staff from each team to be banned.The race should then provide a central medical staff who a rider can go to if they have a problem
6=Governmental policy that if a doctor is convicted of falsely supplying drugs to athletes that they will be banned from practising for life

Any others?

Chemist will just get better. They always seem to get better.

It's kind of like I heard once that the manufacturer of the radar sold to police is the same manufacturer for the radar detector sold to motorist.

Sorry for being a pessimist. 😄

As hard as this is for me to admit, I agree with Flyer to some point. I agree with the zero tolerance part. But not against the sponsors, against the athlete caught. In "professional sports," we can not get rid of the corporate sponsor, it would kill the sport. We need to get rid of the athlete, once he/she is given a fair trial and convicted.

OK snyper. Think about what you just wrote.

I agree that elimating the sponsor would 'kill the corrupt sport' but disagree that it would kill the sport.

In fact it would bring cycling back to a new era--one never experienced.

Doping has followed the sport for 130 years. Adding sponsorship merely added more drugs--and now we are using dangerous blood doping methods.

Get rid of the money and you will reduce the motivation to cheat on a wide scale.

snyper0311 said:

As hard as this is for me to admit, I agree with Flyer to some point. I agree with the zero tolerance part. But not against the sponsors, against the athlete caught. In "professional sports," we can not get rid of the corporate sponsor, it would kill the sport. We need to get rid of the athlete, once he/she is given a fair trial and convicted.

Here is one proposed solution that has merit:

http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200507/drugs-in-sports-1.html

Long article with the proposal detailed on page 7.

Extract

He calls his idea the Volunteer Program. It's driven by the concept of using science, testing, and free-will participation to prove that athletes who sign up are clean, based on thorough biological profiles of their bodies. Catlin would use these profiles to create a set of "biomarkers" that show what is and isn't normal for each athlete. Armed with these indicators, he would institute ongoing, voluntary checkups for any athlete who chooses to participate. In return for entering the Volunteer Program, athletes would receive recognition as members. The public, press, sponsors, and governing bodies would be assured that members of the program were not doping.

Catlin would try to prove that athletes who take part in his system are clean. Participants would submit to exhaustive biological profiles, for comparison with cutting-edge data on what is and isn't possible in the human body.

Athletes running around with insignias of quality assurance approval.

Flyer said:

OK snyper. Think about what you just wrote.

I agree that elimating the sponsor would 'kill the corrupt sport' but disagree that it would kill the sport.

In fact it would bring cycling back to a new era--one never experienced.

Doping has followed the sport for 130 years. Adding sponsorship merely added more drugs--and now we are using dangerous blood doping methods.

Get rid of the money and you will reduce the motivation to cheat on a wide scale.

It wouldn't kill a corrupt sport, it would kill the "professional" aspect/ties to the sport, thus taking the rest of the sport with it. Think about it. No sponsor would touch a pro team, why risk losing your reputation on a dumb ass cheat. As you are quick to point out, it's all about making money.

No pro teams, no grand tours- No world championships. I feel that the only era brought back would be the recreational rider. Yes, you will always have racing. As long as two guys are on bikes pedaling down the same strip of road, there will be a race. If you lose sponsers, it trickles down the chain. They would pull backing for regional and local races. I would not be able to lose my $30 fee every weekend!

I can get my Marine Corp brother to help promote races in your area. I will fly in. (Flyer flies too)

There will always be organized bicycle racing. Always. Before and after Lance.

There will always be baseball--with or without Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire, Jose Conseco, Ken Caminetti or Barry Bonds.

And local racing is far more exciting than watching OLN coverage of a pharma-control tempo race.

Local racing is competitive and exciting. It's a family oriented party.

The TDF is an advertising celebration and fraud.

Local racing is the essence of competiton.

snyper0311 said:

It wouldn't kill a corrupt sport, it would kill the "professional" aspect/ties to the sport, thus taking the rest of the sport with it. Think about it. No sponsor would touch a pro team, why risk losing your reputation on a dumb ass cheat. As you are quick to point out, it's all about making money.

No pro teams, no grand tours- No world championships. I feel that the only era brought back would be the recreational rider. Yes, you will always have racing. As long as two guys are on bikes pedaling down the same strip of road, there will be a race. If you lose sponsers, it trickles down the chain. They would pull backing for regional and local races. I would not be able to lose my $30 fee every weekend!

Flyer said:

I can get my Marine Corp brother to help promote races in your area. I will fly in. (Flyer flies too)

There will always be organized bicycle racing. Always. Before and after Lance.

There will always be baseball--with or without Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire, Jose Conseco, Ken Caminetti or Barry Bonds.

And local racing is far more exciting than watching OLN coverage of a pharma-control tempo race.

Local racing is competitive and exciting. It's a family oriented party.

The TDF is an advertising celebration and fraud.

Local racing is the essence of competiton.

I agree that local racing is the essence of competiton. But, I also enjoy the pro cycling. I do find it entertaining to watch those guys go out and lay it on the line for the grand tours. I enjoy the team tatics used to get their best riders into position to finish the race in the great sprint. I enjoy watching guys get dropped at the top of a 12% grade! I Love that stuff! And for the most part, I do worship those guys, for doing what I could never do. Without pro sports, the amature athlete would have nothig to aspire to-dream of becoming. One thing is for sure, we do need ZERO tolerance. But we need to hold the riders accountable. THey have the final say as to what they do with their bodies.

The riders in my district are plenty motivated w/o Lance Armstrong or Greg Lemond winning, losing or appearing on television.

We prefer to race than watch OLN scripted coverage which deletes out 99% of the actual race.

I agree with ZERO tolerance--but focused/leveled more on management and corporate sponsors.

A age 17-21 year old endurance athlete, cooked by stupid training levels is in NO position to say no to a team doctor or manager.

It is a very plain ultimatum: "Dope now or get the F___ out of cycling!"

It's easy to understand why riders dope.

snyper0311 said:

I agree that local racing is the essence of competiton. But, I also enjoy the pro cycling. I do find it entertaining to watch those guys go out and lay it on the line for the grand tours. I enjoy the team tatics used to get their best riders into position to finish the race in the great sprint. I enjoy watching guys get dropped at the top of a 12% grade! I Love that stuff! And for the most part, I do worship those guys, for doing what I could never do. Without pro sports, the amature athlete would have nothig to aspire to-dream of becoming. One thing is for sure, we do need ZERO tolerance. But we need to hold the riders accountable. THey have the final say as to what they do with their bodies.

Yeah, I have a solution: Lose the rule. Who cares? What is the forum, the alt.i-am-a-socialist-everyone-should-be-even.org newsgroup? I don't care, if you want to go fast that's your business. I'll be laughing when your heart explodes at the top of the hill.
cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗

jimmer23 said:

Yeah, I have a solution: Lose the rule. Who cares? What is the forum, the alt.i-am-a-socialist-everyone-should-be-even.org newsgroup? I don't care, if you want to go fast that's your business. I'll be laughing when your heart explodes at the top of the hill.
cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗

Who cares? Here is one of maybe thousands. It could happen to you.

http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=1456

VeloFlash said:

Who cares? Here is one of maybe thousands. It could happen to you.

procycling.comnews.aspxOpen ↗

Ok, so that is sad. I respect what you're trying to point out, but really, it doesn't matter. He made his choices and now his family suffers. It's not like the story isn't played out a million times every day in countless other professions and situations, he just happens to be a cyclist and his father just happens to have a forum to write about it in. It happens every day. All professions have inherent risks, and some chose the riskier behavior and some do not. Who are you to impose your belief and value system upon others who would not live the same way or take the same degree of risk? It is sad and shouldn't happen, but people make choices and that's life. It's called free will.

For as long as doping is alleged to have been around this sport, the fear of
punishment isn't a real deterrent.

I think some major threshold issues to consider are:

1) Defining which substances are, or even should be illegal and are subject to testing.

2) Having impartial evaluations and untainted samples, including quality and convincing test results.

It's really difficult to come up with a realistic program, isn't it? Some ideas, good, bad or stupid:

Have test stations for all riders during races? Or, testing at the starting area for all riders? At the finishes? How about consent from riders for random or even widespread searches of any rider's apartment, car, gym bag, team car, girlfriend, etc. at any time during the season. Maybe try using lie detector tests???

Short of following each and every rider with 24 hour, online surveillance, I don't see how to get around the issue and feel 100% confident with the system.

Read that article. For those who don`t know yet..

Lie detector tests is definitely an interesting idea. Although, as far as I'm concerned, they are not accurate enough to be considered a positive doping test.

Exactly! It would be very interesting, but nobody would accept it. I think even if rider is innocent because the test is not 100% sure.

Zero tolerance sounds like bringing "war on drugs" to sports. Hmmm...Has war on drugs been successful when trying to get rid of "street drugs"? I can see athletes who has to take asthma medication being suspended for life...

Health passport on the other hand sounds better idea. No passport covering last 2-3 years no professional lisence.

holli said:

Zero tolerance sounds like bringing "war on drugs" to sports. Hmmm...Has war on drugs been successful when trying to get rid of "street drugs"? I can see athletes who has to take asthma medication being suspended for life...

Health passport on the other hand sounds better idea. No passport covering last 2-3 years no professional lisence.

i totally agree with you!!!

this system would have caught many riders out
like riis ,ivan gotti, etc... whose haemo rised from 40-61%

jimmer23 said:

Yeah, I have a solution: Lose the rule. Who cares? What is the forum, the alt.i-am-a-socialist-everyone-should-be-even.org newsgroup? I don't care, if you want to go fast that's your business. I'll be laughing when your heart explodes at the top of the hill.
cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗

for some weird reason his idea sounds good.

Cyclist who die like that should be buried on the side of the road, put a marker on top of that just like in the car accidents. "He did not know the difference between sports science and sport science fiction. RIP"😄