The Diningenuous Mr. Armstrong

You know Brian, this gets really old sometimes. The results from that latest testing showed signs of
EPO in only 1/3rd of the Peloton. You don't have the slightest compunction to slander the entire
group of riders to feed your ego. Why don't you get a life. I'd be willing to bet that cycling is
only in the middle range of dopers in sports.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

.......In a further e-mail from WADA to procycling, a spokesperson for

Pound

Quoted message said:

reiterated that "He (Pound) also believes it is disingenuous for Mr. Armstrong to permit his
people to resort to a personal attack. Mr. Pound

has

Quoted message said:

never identified Mr. Armstrong personally in any comments he has made

about

Quoted message said:

doping in cycling and is surprised that Mr. Armstrong would resort to such

a

Quoted message said:

strongly worded personal attack."

procycling.comnews main.aspOpen ↗
------------------------------------------------------------

Then again, maybe Armstrong doesn't reason very well. What [censored] Pound

said

Quoted message said:

as quoted in Velonews:

"They know Tour de France cyclists and others have been taking prohibited substances. It's the
same thing in the United States with American football."
velonews.com5485.0.htmlOpen ↗

I seem to recall that one rider from the 2003 Tour de France tested

positive

Quoted message said:

for EPO and that the blood profiles of riders taken during the Tour indicated sufficiently that
riders were probably resorting to the older technique of blood doping. Rider (Gaumont) have spoke
openly about this being done. The UCI will be testing for blood doping with an Aussi test

at

Quoted message said:

this year's Tour.

So Mr. Armstrong's protests are somewhat misplaced. Perhaps he should sit down with Bassons, Voet,
Rumsas and some of the former Cofidis riders for

a

Quoted message said:

chat over some Bass Ale and get to the bottom of it.

OK, I ain't a lawyer - libel.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You know Brian, this gets really old sometimes. The results from that

latest

Quoted message said:

testing showed signs of EPO in only 1/3rd of the Peloton. You don't have

the

Quoted message said:

slightest compunction to slander the entire group of riders to feed your ego. Why don't you get a
life. I'd be willing to bet that cycling is only

in

Quoted message said:

the middle range of dopers in sports.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

.......In a further e-mail from WADA to procycling, a spokesperson for

Pound

Quoted message said:

reiterated that "He (Pound) also believes it is disingenuous for Mr. Armstrong to permit his
people to resort to a personal attack. Mr. Pound

has

Quoted message said:

never identified Mr. Armstrong personally in any comments he has made

about

Quoted message said:

doping in cycling and is surprised that Mr. Armstrong would resort to

such

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

strongly worded personal attack."

procycling.comnews main.aspOpen ↗
------------------------------------------------------------

Then again, maybe Armstrong doesn't reason very well. What [censored] Pound

said

Quoted message said:

as quoted in Velonews:

"They know Tour de France cyclists and others have been taking

prohibited

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

substances. It's the same thing in the United States with American football."
velonews.com5485.0.htmlOpen ↗

I seem to recall that one rider from the 2003 Tour de France tested

positive

Quoted message said:

for EPO and that the blood profiles of riders taken during the Tour indicated sufficiently that
riders were probably resorting to the older technique of blood doping. Rider (Gaumont) have
spoke openly about this being done. The UCI will be testing for blood doping with an Aussi test

at

Quoted message said:

this year's Tour.

So Mr. Armstrong's protests are somewhat misplaced. Perhaps he should

sit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

down with Bassons, Voet, Rumsas and some of the former Cofidis riders

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

chat over some Bass Ale and get to the bottom of it.

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 02:03:33 GMT in rec.bicycles.racing, "Tom

Kunich said:

You know Brian, this gets really old sometimes.

just killfile the troll. once everyone does, he'll go away.

a smear troll like him deserves no audience whatsoever.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You know Brian, this gets really old sometimes. The
results from that

latest

Quoted message said:

testing showed signs of EPO in only 1/3rd of the Peloton.
You don't have

the

Quoted message said:

slightest compunction to slander the entire group of
riders to feed your ego. Why don't you get a life. I'd be
willing to bet that cycling is only

in

Quoted message said:

the middle range of dopers in sports.

Pound did not say that ALL riders in the Tour were using
drugs. The 30% figure is hardly insignificant. Perhaps
Armstrong would like to address the 30% find that you note
and its implications for pro cycling and the Tour?

And remember Tom, truth is an absolute defense to libel
and slander.

B. Lafferty said:

Pound did not say that ALL riders in the Tour were
using drugs.

He didn't, but when I originally read the article in Le
Monde, my immediate reaction was that what he said could be
misinterpreted that way. My French isn't good enough to pick
up all of the subtleties of the language so I asked my wife
to read the paragraph and translate it for me without
telling her what I thought it said. Her translation was even
less equivocal than mine; she said, "he's saying everyone
knows Tour riders dope."

What he said to Le Monde is here: lemonde.fr0,1 0@2 3242,36Open ↗
350687,0.html

The section was here:

Le Monde: "L'annee 2004 s'ouvre par une nouvelle affaire de
dopage dans le cyclisme."

Pound: "Meme le president de l'UCI, Hein Verbruggen, va
devoir admettre qu'il y a un probleme dans le cyclisme et
que cela dure depuis cent ans. Eliminer le dopage est un
defi. Et le cyclisme est un sport ou ce defi est
particulierement difficile a relever. Le public n'est pas
dupe, il sait bien que les cyclistes du Tour de France et
les autres prennent des substances interdites. C'est la meme
chose, aux Etats-Unis, avec le football americain: les
joueurs qui pesent 200 kilos, on sait bien que ce n'est pas
a cause de la viande qu'ils mangent."

I understand your point. However, it is accurate to say that
Tour riders dope. They do. Would it have been different if
Pound had said "tout les cyclistes du Tour de France?"

Given that more than a month passed between Pound's
statement and Armstrong's letter, might it have been better
for him to have one of his minions seek clarification from
Pound/WADA before attacking Pound personally?

FWIW, maybe this is just some displaced anger from an
increasingly messy divorce process (as reported by
ProCycling).

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Pound did not say that ALL riders in the Tour were using
drugs.

He didn't, but when I originally read the article in Le
Monde, my immediate reaction was that what he said could
be misinterpreted that way. My French isn't good enough to
pick up all of the subtleties of the language so I asked
my wife to read the paragraph and translate it for me
without telling her what I thought it said. Her
translation was even less equivocal than mine; she said,
"he's saying everyone knows Tour riders dope."

What he said to Le Monde is here: lemonde.fr0,1 0@2 3242,36Open ↗
350687,0.html

The section was here:

Le Monde: "L'annee 2004 s'ouvre par une nouvelle affaire
de dopage dans le cyclisme."

Pound: "Meme le president de l'UCI, Hein Verbruggen, va
devoir admettre qu'il y a un probleme dans le cyclisme et
que cela dure depuis cent ans. Eliminer le dopage est un
defi. Et le cyclisme est un sport ou ce defi est
particulierement difficile a relever. Le public n'est pas
dupe, il sait bien que les cyclistes du Tour de France et
les autres prennent des substances interdites. C'est la
meme chose, aux Etats-Unis, avec le football americain:
les joueurs qui pesent 200 kilos, on sait bien que ce
n'est pas a cause de la viande qu'ils mangent."

B. Lafferty said:

I understand your point. However, it is accurate to say
that Tour riders dope. They do. Would it have been
different if Pound had said "tout les cyclistes du Tour de
France?"

Because of where I used to work I have, in the past, had to
parse words pretty carefully and my reaction was that
Pound's words were ambiguous enough to fall into the realm
of "able to be misinterpreted." It would be sort of like
being a US attorney asked about the Trafficant trial and
replying, "everyone knows that Congress members are
criminals." After being called to task on it, you could
legitimately say, "I didn't say *all* members of Congress
are criminals, so I was shocked, *shocked* I tell you, when
my Congressman complained."

To clarify further, when I read the original Le Monde
article I thought it odd enough to ask my wife about it,
but then I forgot it. I figured it was ambiguous and
incautious, but I never expected this response with a time
lag of a month.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

I understand your point. However, it is accurate to say
that Tour riders dope. They do. Would it have been
different if Pound had said "tout les cyclistes du Tour
de France?"

Because of where I used to work I have, in the past, had
to parse words pretty carefully and my reaction was that
Pound's words were ambiguous enough to fall into the realm
of "able to be misinterpreted." It would be sort of like
being a US attorney asked about the Trafficant trial and
replying, "everyone knows that Congress members are
criminals." After being called to task on it, you could
legitimately say, "I didn't say *all* members of Congress
are criminals, so I was shocked, *shocked* I tell you,
when my Congressman complained."

I have a friend who keeps telling me that all Congresspeople
are criminals. Who does one believe??

Quoted message said:

To clarify further, when I read the original Le Monde
article I thought it odd enough to ask my wife about it,
but then I forgot it. I figured it was ambiguous and
incautious, but I never expected this response with a time
lag of a month.

It does seem strange. Perhaps Armstrong has combined with
Hein to raise the heat in the negotiations between the UCI
and WADA over the UCI's non-signinging of the WADA
protocols. If you look at Armstrong's letter as high profile
UCI propaganda, it makes more sense.

In any event, Armstrong is becoming increasingly grandiose
and amusing. Take this comment from today's CyclingNews:

"The most important reaction to my open letter is that I
have complete support on this from my peers, from the teams,
from the race organizers, from the fans." Complete support
from everyone!!!! The guys who are juicing must love him.
Send the man a bakers dozen of fritters.

"Mr. Pound, in his response to my open letter said "Lance,
I don't know where I ever mentioned you." But the truth of
the matter was that he did something a lot worse than that;
he did something two hundred times worse than that. Because
he mentioned all of the [Tour de France] riders."
Interesting that He knows what Pound meant. A less
grandiose person would have sought clarification.

This is going to be a fun season!

B. Lafferty said:

It does seem strange. Perhaps Armstrong has combined with
Hein to raise the heat

Hein has been known to make Lance rise on occasion. http-
://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2001/sep01/trackworlds/MGl-
ance1.shtml

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

It does seem strange. Perhaps Armstrong has combined
with Hein to raise the heat

Hein has been known to make Lance rise on occasion. http:-
//www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2001/sep01/trackworlds/MGlan-
ce1.shtml

Thank you!!! :-)

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

It would be sort of like being a US attorney asked about
the Trafficant trial and replying, "everyone knows that
Congress members are criminals." After being called to
task on it, you could legitimately say, "I didn't say
*all* members of Congress are criminals, so I was
shocked, *shocked* I tell you, when my Congressman
complained."

I have a friend who keeps telling me that all
Congresspeople are criminals. Who does one believe??

Is your friend a US Attorney? Things said in private among
friends don't carry the same weight as things said by
someone who is in a position of authority to a newspaper.
That's why it struck me as odd, and incautious.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I never expected this response with a time lag of a
month.

It does seem strange. Perhaps Armstrong has combined with
Hein to raise the heat in the negotiations between the UCI
and WADA over the UCI's non-signinging of the WADA
protocols. If you look at Armstrong's letter as high
profile UCI propaganda, it makes more sense.

Exactly. This is how I interpret this letter. I think there
is disingenuousness on all sides and the players are working
on spin and positioning. Sort of like a junior league
version of the November election.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You know Brian, this gets really old sometimes. The
results from that

latest

Quoted message said:

testing showed signs of EPO in only 1/3rd of the
Peloton. You don't have

the

Quoted message said:

slightest compunction to slander the entire group of
riders to feed your ego. Why don't you get a life. I'd
be willing to bet that cycling is

only

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

the middle range of dopers in sports.

Pound did not say that ALL riders in the Tour were using
drugs. The 30% figure is hardly insignificant. Perhaps
Armstrong would like to address

the

Quoted message said:

30% find that you note and its implications for pro
cycling and the Tour?

Look Brian, Pound and Armstrong are both right to say what
they do. But you aren't. The words of Lafferty are: "No one
can do better than me unless they use drugs. And since any
Cat 5 can do better than me, anyone that races is a doper."

In article <[email hidden]>,

B. Lafferty said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He's a political [censored] despite what Brian thinks.
Bill C

They're all businessmen. Does that make them [censored]?

Maybe. As the song goes, "We're all prostitutes, Everyone
has his price..."

--
tanx, Howard

"Food plus heat equals cooking"
Alton Brown

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article <[email hidden]>,

B. Lafferty said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:YOURhoward-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]-

rthlink.net said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

> He's a political [censored] despite what Brian thinks.
> Bill C

They're all businessmen. Does that make them [censored]?

Maybe. As the song goes, "We're all prostitutes,
Everyone has his price..."

I forgot - that's the Pop Group. Credit where it's due.

Quoted message said:

And, "The [censored] hustle and the hustlers [censored]......"
P.J. Harvey

Hey, see how that works?

--
tanx, Howard

Q: Why did the metalhead cross the road?
R: Because he's a gullible moron who'll buy
anything with a skull on it.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

What does any of this have to do with dining or Armstrong being a genius at it? Or was that supposed to be dining eunuch?

"pedalchick" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Or was that supposed to be dining eunuch?

Or worse, dining Kunich?

In article <3Wd3c.171706$Hy3.167446@edtnps89>,

Jim Flom said:

"pedalchick" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Or was that supposed to be dining eunuch?

Or worse, dining Kunich?

Even the most committed advocate for the legalization of
cannibalism would say that goes far beyond the pale...

--
tanx, Howard

Q: Why did the metalhead cross the road?
R: Because he's a gullible moron who'll buy
anything with a skull on it.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?