Road Cycling · Public discussion

The difference between Two Men

Kurgan Gringion · 2003-07-21T21:30:43+00:00

Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina). Lance Armstrong has metaphorically reached out to both of these men, former TdF winners both, those who should be his most formidable competitors. Jan Ullrich has reacted with grace and good sportsmanship, no matter what the circumstances, winning or losing. The mutual respect between these two men, shown repeatedly over the years and certainly in its strongest incarnation today, is a credit to our sport. Marco Pantani, conversely, recoiled - exposing his fragile ego in all its glory. Kudos to Jan Ullrich. He may not be remembered as one of the alltime greatest bike racers in terms of his palmares, but IMO he is one of the all time greatest Sportsmen of cycling. Marco Pantani? La Elefantina should check himself into the Mental Ward more often. He could use it.

Started by Kurgan Gringion · 21 July 2003 · Last activity 26 July 2003 · 13 posts · 708 views

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01 / Original postThe difference between Two MenKurgan Gringion · 21 Jul 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–13Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #13Kurgan Gringion · 26 Jul 2003

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 21 July 2003
Last activity: 26 July 2003
Original author: Kurgan Gringion
Posts: 13
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 708
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Jan Ullrich Marco Pantani Lance Armstrong

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Original post
Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

21 July 2003, 21:30 UTC #1

Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina).
Lance Armstrong has metaphorically reached out to both of these men, former TdF winners both, those
who should be his most formidable competitors.
Jan Ullrich has reacted with grace and good sportsmanship, no matter what the circumstances, winning
or losing. The mutual respect between these two men, shown repeatedly over the years and certainly
in its strongest incarnation today, is a credit to our sport.
Marco Pantani, conversely, recoiled - exposing his fragile ego in all its glory.
Kudos to Jan Ullrich. He may not be remembered as one of the alltime greatest bike racers in terms
of his palmares, but IMO he is one of the all time greatest Sportsmen of cycling.
Marco Pantani? La Elefantina should check himself into the Mental Ward more often. He could use it.

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Dieter Buerssne
Archived post

21 July 2003, 23:30 UTC #2

This reminds me of the Galibier stage of 1998. I saw an interview of Jan about 3 hours after the
stage. He started (paraphrased): "First I want to congratulate Marco for his superb performance". I
found that very nice and classy, at Jan's worst day in the tour. I remember many interviews with
Zabel, that started like: "was too early, in the wind", "did not find the right wheel", ... What a
difference.
Dieter

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Tritonrider
Archived post

22 July 2003, 00:01 UTC #3

Quoted message said:
From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina).
Lance Armstrong has metaphorically reached out to both of these men, former TdF winners both, those
who should be his most formidable competitors.
Jan Ullrich has reacted with grace and good sportsmanship, no matter what the circumstances,
winning or losing. The mutual respect between these two men, shown repeatedly over the years and
certainly in its strongest incarnation today, is a credit to our sport.
Marco Pantani, conversely, recoiled - exposing his fragile ego in all its glory.
Kudos to Jan Ullrich. He may not be remembered as one of the alltime greatest bike racers in terms
of his palmares, but IMO he is one of the all time greatest Sportsmen of cycling.
Marco Pantani? La Elefantina should check himself into the Mental Ward more often. He could use it.
Henry, we are in complete agreement on this. I think Jan can still pull it out, but even if he
doesn't both Jan and Lance's behavior has created a new legend. The level of sportsmanship and
class displayed by both in what may well be the closest Tour in history will become stories told to
our great grandkids after they crash on their training wheels. We are living history. Bill C

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Willowbeauty
Archived post

22 July 2003, 00:01 UTC #4

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina).
Lance Armstrong has metaphorically reached out to both of these men,

former
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
TdF winners both, those who should be his most formidable competitors.
Jan Ullrich has reacted with grace and good sportsmanship, no matter what the circumstances,
winning or losing. The mutual respect between these

two
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
men, shown repeatedly over the years and certainly in its strongest incarnation today, is a
credit to our sport.
Marco Pantani, conversely, recoiled - exposing his fragile ego in all its glory.
Kudos to Jan Ullrich. He may not be remembered as one of the alltime greatest bike racers in
terms of his palmares, but IMO he is one of the

all
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
time greatest Sportsmen of cycling.
Marco Pantani? La Elefantina should check himself into the Mental Ward

more
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
often. He could use it.
Henry, we are in complete agreement on this. I think Jan can still pull

it
Quoted message said:
out, but even if he doesn't both Jan and Lance's behavior has created a

new
Quoted message said:
legend. The level of sportsmanship and class displayed by both in what may

well
Quoted message said:
be the closest Tour in history will become stories told to our great

grandkids
Quoted message said:
after they crash on their training wheels. We are living history. Bill C
Both will go down as drug takers who are mentally weak when up against it which is pretty
accurate really. Slightly ironic that Ullrich reversed into a rack of bikes when he was
drink-driving last year.

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Davide Tosi
Archived post

22 July 2003, 01:30 UTC #5

Kurgan Gringioni said:
Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina).
I think counting the bald lunatic among the ranks of men is a clear huge overstatement. A better
title for your message would have been "Of mice and men".

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Tomatohead
Archived post

22 July 2003, 04:01 UTC #6

Quoted message said:
Kudos to Jan Ullrich. He may not be remembered as one of the alltime greatest bike racers in terms
of his palmares, but IMO he is one of the all time greatest Sportsmen of cycling.
He should be remembered as one of the all time greats. Just think, if not for Lance, he may have won
4 or 5 tours.
Quoted message said:
Marco Pantani? La Elefantina should check himself into the Mental Ward more often. He
could use it.

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Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

22 July 2003, 05:40 UTC #7

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Kurgan Gringioni said:
Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina).
I think counting the bald lunatic among the ranks of men is a clear huge overstatement. A better
title for your message would have been "Of mice and men".
lol.
Since you live in Italy, perhaps you can explain why The Bald Lunatic has a following? I
don't get it.

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Willowbeauty
Archived post

22 July 2003, 07:41 UTC #8

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
From: "Willowbeauty" [email hidden]
Quoted message said:
Both will go down as drug takers who are mentally weak when up against it which is pretty
accurate really. Slightly ironic that Ullrich reversed

into
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
a rack of bikes when he was drink-driving last year.
Keep hoping that Millar actually does something, and being bitter.

Everyone is
Quoted message said:
a low class druggie except the few Brit riders who are nowhere in the GC

who
Quoted message said:
are being unfairly cghallenged. As Kurgan would say "Your a complete Dumbass!" Bill C
?? few Brit riders ??

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Davide Tosi
Archived post

25 July 2003, 19:01 UTC #9

Kurgan Gringioni said:
"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Kurgan Gringioni said:
Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina).
I think counting the bald lunatic among the ranks of men is a clear huge overstatement. A better
title for your message would have been "Of mice and men".
lol.
Since you live in Italy, perhaps you can explain why The Bald Lunatic has a following? I
don't get it.
Because most Italians, like many other Europeans, expecially the left-wing ones, love sore losers.
They probably identify themselves.

Report
Amit
Archived post

25 July 2003, 22:45 UTC #10

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Since you live in Italy, perhaps you can explain why The Bald Lunatic has a following? I
don't get it.
Pantani was popular on rbr too. How could you not like a guy who attacks the way he did and was such
a unique and colorful personality? As a pure climber he was (I'll use the past tense) so much
different in riding style than Indurain and Ullrich. Remeber he also made a comeback from injury.
When he realized he was not nearly as exciting and dominating a climber without dope he became
depressed and angry.
-Amit

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Warren
Archived post

25 July 2003, 23:30 UTC #11

In article said:
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Since you live in Italy, perhaps you can explain why The Bald Lunatic has a following? I don't
get it.
Pantani was popular on rbr too.
The difference is that RBR turned against him when he was found out to be a cheat but (some, most?)
Italians ignore this fact.
-WG

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Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

26 July 2003, 02:30 UTC #12

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Kurgan Gringioni said:
"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>Namely Jan Ullrich and Marco Pantani (La Elefantina).
I think counting the bald lunatic among the ranks of men is a clear

huge
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
overstatement. A better title for your message would have been "Of mice and men".
lol.
Since you live in Italy, perhaps you can explain why The Bald Lunatic has

a
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
following? I don't get it.
Because most Italians, like many other Europeans, expecially the left-wing ones, love sore losers.
They probably identify themselves.
Interesting.

Report
Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

26 July 2003, 02:30 UTC #13

"Amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
Since you live in Italy, perhaps you can explain why The Bald Lunatic

has a
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
following? I don't get it.
Pantani was popular on rbr too. How could you not like a guy who attacks the way he did and was
such a unique and colorful personality? As a pure climber he was (I'll use the past tense) so much
different in riding style than Indurain and Ullrich. Remeber he also made a comeback from injury.
When he realized he was not nearly as exciting and dominating a climber without dope he became
depressed and angry.
That's a good an explanation I've heard as any.
He wasn't depressive before 1999, at least outwardly.

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