The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34% off the list price of $49.95.
-- Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34% off the list price of $49.95.
-- Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34% off the list price of $49.95.
I have that book; I rate it excellent. It is really one-of-a-kind if you're into that sort of thing. I don't know why Berto is the only listed author, there are three.
"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
I read somewhere that this is a substantial rewrite, with Berto being the sole author. In my opinion, that's probably a good thing, since the major flaw with the first edition was that its parts didn't hang together as well as they might.
"Gary Young" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
I read somewhere that this is a substantial rewrite, with Berto being the sole author. In my opinion, that's probably a good thing, since the major flaw with the first edition was that its parts didn't hang together as well as they might.
The first edition was essentially self-published. Is that still the case?
"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.
"Amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.
He made a career that he enjoyed for years. That's more than can be said for most people. And his book is really an excellent way to end the career, even though it isn't a tome on alpine gearing.
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through Amazon.com For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of the derailleur, it is available through the following link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/ The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34% off the list price of $49.95.
B. Lafferty said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
As with so many things, I bought mine at an independent bookstore, from the owner herself, and paid cover price. One small step to keeping real bookstores available to me.
IMHO Frank's book, while pricey, is a good read. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
I read somewhere that this is a substantial rewrite, with Berto being the sole author. In my opinion, that's probably a good thing, since the major flaw with the first edition was that its parts didn't hang together as well as they might.
I agree. The first edition was very interesting, if you're really into bike history and technical details. But it badly needed an editor's strong hand.
-- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
[email hidden] (Amit) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.
Back then we didn't have 8+ speeds. Half step plus granny worked very well if you know what you were doing & used log log paper. I'd use log log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would be deeply appreciated. John
[email hidden] (Amit) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.
Back then we didn't have 8+ speeds. Half step plus granny worked very well if you know what you were doing & used log log paper. I'd use log log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would be deeply appreciated. John
I miss it too so I would be in on the "If you ding it deal". It might be possible to print some but then you might have to write a program to generate the proper lines.
The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34% off the list price of $49.95.
I have that book; I rate it excellent. It is really one-of-a-kind if you're into that sort of thing. I don't know why Berto is the only listed author, there are three.
The ironic thing is that he lives in Marin & his wife is an avid horse person & rabidly anti Mt. Bike, but I still appreciate & thank him for his research in the '80s. He actually had a small lab / shop where he ran drive trains & evaluated their performance. Shimango stole the "slant parallelogram" (IIRC) from Sun Tour (What's new?) & refined it. At the time slant, parallelogram, sounded like just more industry hype. He was the first person I'm aware of who said that this system is actually vastly superior. At that time when Shimango was just coming out w/ indexed, I think Berto knew about as much as Shimano about the dynamics of chains, teeth, & derailers, perhaps more. Berto or some wise sole says that if not for the slant parallelogram, we probably would not have indexed shifting today. And I don't want to hear a bunch of retro grouch [censored], I've ridden for far more years w/ friction than indexed, & I'll take indexed anyday, Thank You Very Much! John
... Back then we didn't have 8+ speeds. Half step plus granny worked very well if you know what you were doing & used log log paper. I'd use log log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would be deeply appreciated.
In previous years, most college bookstores would have had log-log paper and semi-log - log paper, etc. (I probably still have some leftover sheets of it around.)
Most spreadsheet programs can produce log-log graphs.
-- Tom Sherman - Rock Island County Illinois Tetrahedral carbon lattices are not forever.
And I don't want to hear a bunch of retro grouch [censored], I've ridden for far more years w/ friction than indexed, & I'll take indexed anyday, Thank You Very Much! John
It's not that hard to keep an index set-up tuned so it shifts properly. I know a couple of people who have actually said that using friction shifting proves they are better riders. Yeah, whatever...
-- tanx, Howard
"You ain't having fun until you're dialing 911" Atomic 7
Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through Amazon.com
snip
Quoted message said:
I have that book; I rate it excellent. It is really one-of-a-kind if you're into that sort of thing. I don't know why Berto is the only listed author, there are three.
There is also an earlier book by Frank Berto, "Bicycling Magazine's complete guide to upgrading your bike" (Rodale Press, 1988). I found this extremely useful for increasing my understanding of how bicycle components function. Example: Why the difference in size between largest and middle chainwheel is crucial for shifting a triple from the smallest to the middle chainwheel (because if the difference is too great, the derailleur will sit too far above the middle chainwheel). The concrete recommendations are of course now out of date.
-- Ned Mantei Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology CH-8093 Zurich, Switzerland ------------ And now a word from our sponsor --------------------- For a secure high performance FTP using SSL/TLS encryption upgrade to SurgeFTP ---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_surgeftp.htm ----
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through Amazon.com For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of the derailleur, it is available through the following link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/ The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34% off the list price of $49.95.
B. Lafferty said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
As with so many things, I bought mine at an independent bookstore, from the owner herself, and paid cover price. One small step to keeping real bookstores available to me.
They wouldn't have it at B&N anyway -- you'd have to order it there, and pay full price. Probably the same with Amazon. Only the mass-market stuff is discounted.
Quoted message said:
IMHO Frank's book, while pricey, is a good read.
There aren't too many good cycling books, but this is one of them, if you're interested in technology.
What other cycling books do people like? 'Tis the season, after all...
On 3 Dec 2004 21:41:49 -0800, John McGraw <[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I'd use log log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would be deeply appreciated. John
Quoted message said:
I miss it too so I would be in on the "If you ding it deal". It might be possible to print some but then you might have to write a program to generate the proper lines.
You can usually still find it in university book stores, at engineering schools. ISTR seeing it in the old VA Tech bookstore. I'm going down there shortly, maybe I'll have a look and report back.
I know I have some, somewhere as well. I just threw out all my extra computer punch cards from my first year of college! I've saved all kinds of graph paper over the years, because I knew it would come in handy, and not always be available.
On 12/04/2004 07:39 AM, in article [email hidden], "Matt
O'Toole said:
A Muzi said:
Quoted message said:
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will > be shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through > Amazon.com > For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of > the derailleur, it is available through the following link: > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/ > The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of > 34% off the list price of $49.95.
B. Lafferty said:
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
As with so many things, I bought mine at an independent bookstore, from the owner herself, and paid cover price. One small step to keeping real bookstores available to me.
They wouldn't have it at B&N anyway -- you'd have to order it there, and pay full price. Probably the same with Amazon. Only the mass-market stuff is discounted.
Pre-order from Amazon is $32.97, 34% off listed price.
-- Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
I'd use log log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would be deeply appreciated. John
Google "Graph paper software" and you'll find several programs that will print the stuff out.
But these days, when I want to do a gear chart, I use a spreadsheet package. Depending what you need, you may find it better to set up an extra column containing the logarithm of the gear inches, but simply plotting the gear inches on a logarithmic axis may be fine.
-- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
