the cool thing about the Vuelta

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Is it has crosswinds that make for GC shakeups on flat stages.

Was it '96 that Rominger got eliminated from contention on the 2nd day on a flat stage? I think it
was ONCE and Banesto that went to the front just a few k into the stage and shattered the peloton.

Third stage and he lost 7:23 (and the race). Coincidentally, it was from Cuenca to Albacete -
same as today.

Quoted message said:

Today Frigo gets the treatment from ONCE and USPS. I'll guess that Saiz and Bruyneel may have been
on the phone to each other (Bruyneel rode for Saiz @ ONCE).

That would be interesting, because last year those two were decidedly not seeing eye to eye. But
that was then, this is now. Today could have been an alliance of convenience.

Quoted message said:

Too bad the TdF doesn't have such drama (well, there was the Passage du Gois) on flat stages.

I'll guess the prevailing winds and terrain in Spain allow for this.

--
tanx, Howard

"Head of a cat, body of a monkey, Here comes a plague upon the land." The Billy Nayer Show

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Is it has crosswinds that make for GC shakeups on flat stages.

Was it '96 that Rominger got eliminated from contention on the 2nd day on

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

flat stage? I think it was ONCE and Banesto that went to the front just a

few

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

k into the stage and shattered the peloton.

Third stage and he lost 7:23 (and the race). Coincidentally, it was from Cuenca to Albacete -
same as today.

Good trivia, thanks. Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing
for Frigo (even if Petacchi did win).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Today Frigo gets the treatment from ONCE and USPS. I'll guess that Saiz

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bruyneel may have been on the phone to each other (Bruyneel rode for Saiz

@

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ONCE).

That would be interesting, because last year those two were decidedly

not

Quoted message said:

seeing eye to eye. But that was then, this is now. Today could have been an alliance of
convenience.

I believe that Bruyneel was riding for Saiz in '96 right? There probably not much a director does
better than guiding his team to a strategem he's executed himself as a rider. I wonder who
approached whom or if the colloboration was spontaneous.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I believe that Bruyneel was riding for Saiz in '96 right? There probably not much a director does
better than guiding his team to a strategem he's executed himself as a rider. I wonder who
approached whom or if the colloboration was spontaneous.

From: cyclingnews.comnewsOpen ↗

"As it has been in recent editions of the Vuelta, US Postal Service was ready for the wind and took
advantage of the poor position of other teams' leaders by forcing the pace when the field began to
split. Directeur sportif Johan Bruyneel, a shrewd tactician, was proud of his team by day's end.

"He made an unforgivable mistake," Belda said of Valverde in Spanish paper AS. "Quite simply, he
wasn't where he needed to be. Every year the crosswinds come in the same place, and the riders
were perfectly aware of this. Four years ago the same thing happened to us with Roberto Heras. We
never learn." "

I've seen Postal do this before as has Saiz, so my guess is that the ONCE guys were expecting
it, and once they found all each other in the front group they collaborated to put it to Frigo
and Gonzalez.

NS

"Nev Shea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen Postal do this before as has Saiz, so my guess is that the ONCE guys were expecting it,
and once they found all each other in the front group they collaborated to put it to Frigo and
Gonzalez.

They basically annihilated Frigo and Gonzalez yesterday - they certainly weren't too flash in
the TT today.

Jeff

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even if
Petacchi did win).

One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already lost too much time to
finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've been riding.
Ferretti probably figured sending guys back to try to drag them to the front group was going to
be fruitless (on a windy day like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for
something with a higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the best
chance of getting that done was already in the front group.
--
tanx, Howard

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room." George C. Scott, Dr. Strangelove

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Good trivia, thanks. Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing
for Frigo (even if Petacchi did win).

Notoriously, Ferretti is not that much interested in general classments. What happened during the
last couple of days at the Vuelta will only convince him even more that aiming at single day goals
takes less effort and better probabilities of a good result.

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even
if Petacchi did win).

One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already

lost

Quoted message said:

too much time to finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've
been riding. Ferretti probably figured sending

guys back

Quoted message said:

to try to drag them to the front group was going to be fruitless (on a

windy day

Quoted message said:

like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for something with

a

Quoted message said:

higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the

best

Quoted message said:

chance of getting that done was already in the front group.

Ferretti didn't have much choice in the matter, as Petacchi was the *only* Fassa Bortolo rider ahead
of Aitor and Frigo. All the rest were dropped, and it would have been a waste of time (and a stage
win) for Petacchi to drop back to the second group to try and help the other two bridge up.

Jeff

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even
if Petacchi did win).

One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already

lost

Quoted message said:

too much time to finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've
been riding. Ferretti probably figured sending guys

back

Quoted message said:

to try to drag them to the front group was going to be fruitless (on a

windy day

Quoted message said:

like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for something with

a

Quoted message said:

higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the best chance of getting that
done was already in the front group.

Ferretti's mistake was not having his team prepared for the crosswinds (using the workers to get the
GC guys into the front echelon when the hammer dropped).

As Jeff has pointed out, no FBs were in the front group save Petacchi. They were unprepared.

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Good trivia, thanks. Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having

his

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

team do the right thing for Frigo (even if Petacchi did win).

Notoriously, Ferretti is not that much interested in general classments. What happened during the
last couple of days at the Vuelta will only convince him even more that aiming at single day goals
takes less effort and better probabilities of a good result.

Petacchi was the only rider in the front echelon from FB.

Having the team prepared for the crosswinds would have put more than 1 rider in the front echelon
and increased Petacchi's odds even more. FB is lucky that Petacchi was paying attention, otherwise
they would have been seen as the day's big loser.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"

Quoted message said:

Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even
if Petacchi did win).

One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already

lost

Quoted message said:

too much time to finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've
been riding. Ferretti probably figured sending guys

back

Quoted message said:

to try to drag them to the front group was going to be fruitless (on a

windy day

Quoted message said:

like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for something with

a

Quoted message said:

higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the best chance of getting
that done was already in the front group.

Ferretti's mistake was not having his team prepared for the crosswinds (using the workers to get
the GC guys into the front echelon when the hammer dropped).

Until Jeff mentioned that, I wasn't aware they were distributed in the peloton like that. Kudos
to Petacchi for having the foresight (or luck) to be up front. Granted, not -everyone- can
actually be at the front of the bunch - it's physically impossible.

Quoted message said:

As Jeff has pointed out, no FBs were in the front group save Petacchi. They were unprepared.

Fassa screwed the pooch and paid for it.
--
tanx, Howard

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room." George C. Scott, Dr. Strangelove

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?