The Carmichael Spin



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What's the big deal blowhard??!!

After 20 miles it gets too uncomfortable........ Even YOU
must eventually get uncomfortable sticking your head up your
ass too long....

On 6/4/04 5:28 PM, in article
[email protected], "B.
Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote:

> From ProCycling:
>
> http://www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=5340
>
> So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the
> power/performance problem at 25-30 km? July is going to be
> very interesting.
>
>

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<HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: The Carmichael Spin</TITLE> </HEAD>
<BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-
size:12.0px'>What'= s the big deal blowhard??!!<BR> <BR>
After 20 miles it gets too uncomfortable........<BR> Even
YOU must eventually get uncomfortable sticking your head up
your ass t= oo long....<BR> <BR> <BR> On 6/4/04 5:28 PM, in
article [email protected]=
link.net, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
wrote:<BR> <BR> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> From
ProCycling:<BR> > <BR> > <a href=3D"http://www.procyc-
ling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=3D5340">http://w=
ww.procycling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=3D5340</a><BR> >
<BR> > So is it the new bike or the aging body that
caused the power/performa= nce<BR> > problem at 25-30 km?
July is going to be very interesting.<BR> > <BR>
> <BR> </FONT></SPAN></FONT> </BODY> </HTML>

--B_3169216548_9473784--
 
>From: "B. Lafferty" [email protected]

>So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the
>power/performance problem at 25-30 km? July is going to be
>very interesting.
>

Since I ride several bikes regularly this makes a lot of
sense to me.

"Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's ‘Road
to the Tour’ show on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach
Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch in equipment. "Lance
is more comfortable on the time trial bike with a standard
bottom bracket width."

The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
designed by bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower bottom
bracket shell in an effort to reduce the overall frontal
area of rider and bike. " The bottom bracket width isn't
really that much different on my bikes but I can definitely
feel it in my knees sooner, rather than later. Bill C
 
"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >From: "B. Lafferty" [email protected]
>
> >So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the
> >power/performance problem at 25-30 km? July is going to
> >be very interesting.
> >
>
> Since I ride several bikes regularly this makes a lot of
> sense to me.
>
> "Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's 'Road
> to the Tour' show on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach
> Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch
in
> equipment. "Lance is more comfortable on the time trial
> bike with a
standard
> bottom bracket width."
>
> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
> designed by bike
sponsor
> Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an
> effort to reduce
the
> overall frontal area of rider and bike. " The bottom
> bracket width isn't really that much different on my
> bikes but
I
> can definitely feel it in my knees sooner, rather than
> later. Bill C
>

Good thing his bikes don't have Italian threading.

That is definitely a 'different strokes for different
folks' type of thing. I don't know if Obree invented or
just popularized the narrow BB, but the Project 96 bikes
had narrow BBs. Later on, as I was preparing for TTs, I
would ride the thing for up to two hours at a time. I
never felt any discomfort, whether on the narrow BB or
switching back and forth between it and my road bike with
a standard width BB.

I had proposed that USAC/GT build our road bikes with BBs
similar width to the pursuit bikes, but the idea never
got very far.
 
In article <[email protected]>, TritonRider
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's ‘Road
> to the Tour’ show on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach
> Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch in equipment. "Lance
> is more comfortable on the time trial bike with a standard
> bottom bracket width."
>
> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
> designed by bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower
> bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce the overall
> frontal area of rider and bike. " The bottom bracket width
> isn't really that much different on my bikes but I can
> definitely feel it in my knees sooner, rather than later.

So why can't Lance simply move his cleats inward or use a
longer bottom bracket spindle?

-WG
 
"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >From: "B. Lafferty" [email protected]
>
> >So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the
> >power/performance problem at 25-30 km? July is going to
> >be very interesting.
> >
>
> Since I ride several bikes regularly this makes a lot of
> sense to me.
>
> "Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's 'Road
> to the Tour' show on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach
> Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch
in
> equipment. "Lance is more comfortable on the time trial
> bike with a
standard
> bottom bracket width."
>
> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
> designed by bike
sponsor
> Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an
> effort to reduce
the
> overall frontal area of rider and bike. " The bottom
> bracket width isn't really that much different on my
> bikes but
I
> can definitely feel it in my knees sooner, rather than
> later. Bill C

We'll have the answer to the question late on the afternoon
of July 19th.
 
> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
>> designed by bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower
>> bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce the overall
>> frontal area of rider and bike. "
>
Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try
to ensure that every athlete competes using more or less the
same equipment? By designing a one-of-a-kind bike with a
narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that gives
Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just another
example of an organization that does all it can to bend the
rules to its advantage (remember the Actovegin almost-
scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of course all teams
do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground USPS
might try to claim for itself.
 
Kyle Legate wrote:
>> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:20040604212446.07875.00000563@mb-
>> m06.aol.com...
>>>
>>> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
>>> designed by bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower
>>> bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce the overall
>>> frontal area of rider and bike. "
>>
> Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which
> try to ensure that every athlete competes using more or
> less the same equipment? By designing a one-of-a-kind bike
> with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that
> gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just
> another example of an organization that does all it can to
> bend the rules to its advantage (remember the Actovegin
> almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of course
> all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh
> ground USPS might try to claim for itself.

The governing body (UCI) makes the rules and all the teams
play within them, like all sports. Where's the grey area or
moral high ground?
 
"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:20040604212446.07875.00000563@mb-
> > m06.aol.com...
> >>
> >> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
> >> designed by bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower
> >> bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce the overall
> >> frontal area of rider and bike. "
> >
> Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which
> try to ensure that every athlete competes using more or
> less the same equipment? By designing
a
> one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is
> creating equipment
that
> gives Lance an unfair technological advantage.

As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or merely
popularized narrow BBs more than 10 years ago, but the
concept has been laid out on the table for all to use. If
Obree can fabricate a bike out of junkyard parts, then why
can't a large corporation create essentially the same thing?

The intellectual value of (in this instance) the piece is
common now.

If the issue is production v. prototype then that is a
hugely grey area, whether from a manufacturing POV or a
'spirit of the rules' POV.

How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate.
Another alternative would be to use the Japanese Keirin
Association approach where there is no questioning the
spirit of the rules whatsoever.
 
Kyle Legate wrote:

>>"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:20040604212446.07875.00000563@mb-
>>m06.aol.com...
>>
>>>The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially
>>>designed by bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower
>>>bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce the overall
>>>frontal area of rider and bike. "
>>
> Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which
> try to ensure that every athlete competes using more or
> less the same equipment? By designing a one-of-a-kind bike
> with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that
> gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just
> another example of an organization that does all it can to
> bend the rules to its advantage (remember the Actovegin
> almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of course
> all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh
> ground USPS might try to claim for itself.

Some equipment is more equal than others. The thing I
like is when David Millar shows up at the Worlds with
some kind of carbon Franken-biken-stein (that thing was
UG-LEE) whereas whatever Lance rides eventually shows up
in your LBS.
 
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:57:16 +0200, "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try
>to ensure that every athlete competes using more or less
>the same equipment? By designing a one-of-a-kind bike with
>a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that gives
>Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just another
>example of an organization that does all it can to bend the
>rules to its advantage (remember the Actovegin almost-
>scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of course all teams
>do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground USPS
>might try to claim for itself.

What moral high ground? Armstrong and his team said they
don't break rules. And they don't. I expect and hope that
athletes I admire go up to the edge of the rules but
don't cross them. That's a good thing. That's a key
element of sport.

JT
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or
> merely popularized

> How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate.
> Another alternative would be to use the Japanese Keirin
> Association approach where there is no questioning the
> spirit of the rules whatsoever.

There ya go, have everyone in the TDF, Use Ganwell Pro or
Nagasawa steel framed bikes exactly equipped, and race the
TDF, see who wins, be like an IROC race

Dave
 
"Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
> > As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or
> > merely popularized
>
> > How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate.
> > Another
alternative
> > would be to use the Japanese Keirin Association approach
> > where there is
no
> > questioning the spirit of the rules whatsoever.
>
> There ya go, have everyone in the TDF, Use Ganwell Pro or
> Nagasawa steel framed bikes exactly equipped, and race the
> TDF, see who wins, be like an IROC race
>
> Dave

Henri D. did exactly that in some pre-WWII years of the TdF.
Lets make them all ride Raleigh Pro bikes, circa 1980.
 
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:57:16 +0200, "Kyle Legate"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which
>>try to ensure that every athlete competes using more or
>>less the same equipment? By designing a one-of-a-kind bike
>>with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that
>>gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just
>>another example of an organization that does all it can to
>>bend the rules to its advantage (remember the Actovegin
>>almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of course
>>all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh
>>ground USPS might try to claim for itself.
>
>
> What moral high ground? Armstrong and his team said they
> don't break rules. And they don't. I expect and hope that
> athletes I admire go up to the edge of the rules but
> don't cross them. That's a good thing. That's a key
> element of sport.
>
> JT
>
>

Hey, JT--the EDGE of the rules? Can you help me
with my taxes?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> > > As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or
> > > merely
popularized
> >
> > > How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate.
> > > Another
> alternative
> > > would be to use the Japanese Keirin Association
> > > approach where there
is
> no
> > > questioning the spirit of the rules whatsoever.
> >
> > There ya go, have everyone in the TDF, Use Ganwell Pro
> > or Nagasawa steel framed bikes exactly equipped, and
> > race the TDF, see who wins, be like
an
> > IROC race
> >
> > Dave
>
> Henri D. did exactly that in some pre-WWII years of the
> TdF. Lets make
them
> all ride Raleigh Pro bikes, circa 1980.
>

Didn't some of those bikes have bottom bracket problems
where the 'CC' was cut out?
 
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:57:16 +0200, "Kyle Legate"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which
> >>try to ensure
that
> >>every athlete competes using more or less the same
> >>equipment? By
designing a
> >>one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is
> >>creating equipment
that
> >>gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just
> >>another example of
an
> >>organization that does all it can to bend the rules to
> >>its advantage (remember the Actovegin almost-scandal?)
> >>by playing in the grey area. Of course all teams do
> >>this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground
USPS
> >>might try to claim for itself.
> >
> >
> > What moral high ground? Armstrong and his team said they
> > don't break rules. And they don't. I expect and hope
> > that athletes I admire go up to the edge of the rules
> > but don't cross them. That's a good thing. That's a key
> > element of sport.
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
>
> Hey, JT--the EDGE of the rules? Can you help me with
> my taxes?
>
> Steve

My tax law professor explained to us on the first day of
class that we should view our tax return as an offer only,
which the government could choose to accept or reject.
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > > As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or
> > > > merely
> popularized
> > >
> > > > How these rules are interpreted can be quite
> > > > delicate. Another
> > alternative
> > > > would be to use the Japanese Keirin Association
> > > > approach where there
> is
> > no
> > > > questioning the spirit of the rules whatsoever.
> > >
> > > There ya go, have everyone in the TDF, Use Ganwell Pro
> > > or Nagasawa
steel
> > > framed bikes exactly equipped, and race the TDF, see
> > > who wins, be like
> an
> > > IROC race
> > >
> > > Dave
> >
> > Henri D. did exactly that in some pre-WWII years of the
> > TdF. Lets make
> them
> > all ride Raleigh Pro bikes, circa 1980.
> >
>
> Didn't some of those bikes have bottom bracket problems
> where the 'CC' was cut out?

Don't know. Some of the bikes provided to our club by our
sponsor Windsor Bicycles (Mexican made in the same factory
as Benotto) in the early 80s had bb failures due to
overheating of the shell when built. Quality was much more
hit or miss back then, even with "name" brands.
 
B. Lafferty wrote:
> "John Everett" <[email protected]>
> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:33:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>We'll have the answer to the question late on the
>>>afternoon of July 19th.
>>>
>>
>>What can we expect to learn on a rest day in Nîmes? ;-)
>
> Right you are. July 24th. Stage 19.

What was the question again?
 
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