The Carmichael Spin



What's the big deal blowhard??!!

After 20 miles it gets too uncomfortable........
Even YOU must eventually get uncomfortable sticking your head up your ass
too long....


On 6/4/04 5:28 PM, in article
[email protected], "B. Lafferty"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> From ProCycling:
>
> http://www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=5340
>
> So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the power/performance
> problem at 25-30 km? July is going to be very interesting.
>
>
 
>From: "B. Lafferty" [email protected]

>So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the power/performance
>problem at 25-30 km? July is going to be very interesting.
>

Since I ride several bikes regularly this makes a lot of sense to me.

"Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's ‘Road to the Tour’ show
on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch in
equipment. "Lance is more comfortable on the time trial bike with a standard
bottom bracket width."

The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by bike sponsor
Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce the
overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
The bottom bracket width isn't really that much different on my bikes but I
can definitely feel it in my knees sooner, rather than later.
Bill C
 
"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >From: "B. Lafferty" [email protected]
>
> >So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the power/performance
> >problem at 25-30 km? July is going to be very interesting.
> >
>
> Since I ride several bikes regularly this makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> "Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's 'Road to the Tour' show
> on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch
in
> equipment. "Lance is more comfortable on the time trial bike with a
standard
> bottom bracket width."
>
> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by bike
sponsor
> Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce
the
> overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
> The bottom bracket width isn't really that much different on my bikes but
I
> can definitely feel it in my knees sooner, rather than later.
> Bill C
>

Good thing his bikes don't have Italian threading.

That is definitely a 'different strokes for different folks' type of thing.
I don't know if Obree invented or just popularized the narrow BB, but the
Project 96 bikes had narrow BBs. Later on, as I was preparing for TTs, I
would ride the thing for up to two hours at a time. I never felt any
discomfort, whether on the narrow BB or switching back and forth between it
and my road bike with a standard width BB.

I had proposed that USAC/GT build our road bikes with BBs similar width to
the pursuit bikes, but the idea never got very far.
 
In article <[email protected]>, TritonRider
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's ‘Road to the Tour’ show
> on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch in
> equipment. "Lance is more comfortable on the time trial bike with a standard
> bottom bracket width."
>
> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by bike
> sponsor
> Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce the
> overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
> The bottom bracket width isn't really that much different on my bikes but I
> can definitely feel it in my knees sooner, rather than later.

So why can't Lance simply move his cleats inward or use a longer bottom
bracket spindle?

-WG
 
>So why can't Lance simply move his cleats inward or use a longer bottom
>bracket spindle?
>
>-WG
>

This is my first time posting here, so firs:, "Hi, my name is Wes; I'm a Taurus
and I like rainy summer evenings, red wine, and going fast on my bike...." :)
As to why not just move the cleats to position the feet farther out, that would
actually sacrifice more aerodynamics than going to the other bike. The area
that would be left between his feet/legs and the frame would create a more
disturbed airflow. Though the other bike is a bit wider in that area, it would
still be more aero if Lance needs to have his feet a bit wider.
Wes
runmntsATaol.com
 
"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >From: "B. Lafferty" [email protected]
>
> >So is it the new bike or the aging body that caused the power/performance
> >problem at 25-30 km? July is going to be very interesting.
> >
>
> Since I ride several bikes regularly this makes a lot of sense to me.
>
> "Speaking on US broadcaster Outdoor Life Network's 'Road to the Tour' show
> on Thursday night, Armstrong's coach Chris Carmichael confirmed the switch
in
> equipment. "Lance is more comfortable on the time trial bike with a
standard
> bottom bracket width."
>
> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by bike
sponsor
> Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an effort to reduce
the
> overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
> The bottom bracket width isn't really that much different on my bikes but
I
> can definitely feel it in my knees sooner, rather than later.
> Bill C


We'll have the answer to the question late on the afternoon of July 19th.
 
> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by
>> bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an
>> effort to reduce the overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
>
Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try to ensure that
every athlete competes using more or less the same equipment? By designing a
one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that
gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just another example of an
organization that does all it can to bend the rules to its advantage
(remember the Actovegin almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of
course all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground USPS
might try to claim for itself.
 
Kyle Legate wrote:
>> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by
>>> bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an
>>> effort to reduce the overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
>>
> Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try to ensure
> that every athlete competes using more or less the same equipment? By
> designing a one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is
> creating equipment that gives Lance an unfair technological
> advantage. Just another example of an organization that does all it
> can to bend the rules to its advantage (remember the Actovegin
> almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of course all teams do
> this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground USPS might try to
> claim for itself.

The governing body (UCI) makes the rules and all the teams play within them,
like all sports. Where's the grey area or moral high ground?
 
"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by
> >> bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an
> >> effort to reduce the overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
> >
> Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try to ensure that
> every athlete competes using more or less the same equipment? By designing
a
> one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment
that
> gives Lance an unfair technological advantage.

As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or merely popularized
narrow BBs more than 10 years ago, but the concept has been laid out on the
table for all to use. If Obree can fabricate a bike out of junkyard parts,
then why can't a large corporation create essentially the same thing?

The intellectual value of (in this instance) the piece is common now.

If the issue is production v. prototype then that is a hugely grey area,
whether from a manufacturing POV or a 'spirit of the rules' POV.

How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate. Another alternative
would be to use the Japanese Keirin Association approach where there is no
questioning the spirit of the rules whatsoever.
 
>From: "Kyle Legate"

(snipped)

>Doesn't this [narrower bottom bracket] >violate the spirit of the UCI rules,

>Trek is creating equipment that
>gives Lance an unfair technological advantage

>Just another example of an
>organization that does all it can to bend the rules to its advantage

>(remember the Actovegin almost-scandal?)

>by playing in the grey area.

>destroys any moral hgh ground USPS
>might try to claim for itself.

You *are* just ate up with it, aren't you?

"Almost-scandal". That was good. Any more piles of doggie doo-doo to kick? --TP
 
Kyle Legate wrote:

>>"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>The bike that Armstrong has dropped had been specially designed by
>>>bike sponsor Trek and featured a narrower bottom bracket shell in an
>>>effort to reduce the overall frontal area of rider and bike. "
>>
> Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try to ensure that
> every athlete competes using more or less the same equipment? By designing a
> one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that
> gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just another example of an
> organization that does all it can to bend the rules to its advantage
> (remember the Actovegin almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of
> course all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground USPS
> might try to claim for itself.


Some equipment is more equal than others. The thing I like is when
David Millar shows up at the Worlds with some kind of carbon
Franken-biken-stein (that thing was UG-LEE) whereas whatever Lance rides
eventually shows up in your LBS.
 
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:57:16 +0200, "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]>
wrote:


>Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try to ensure that
>every athlete competes using more or less the same equipment? By designing a
>one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that
>gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just another example of an
>organization that does all it can to bend the rules to its advantage
>(remember the Actovegin almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of
>course all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground USPS
>might try to claim for itself.

What moral high ground? Armstrong and his team said they don't break
rules. And they don't. I expect and hope that athletes I admire go
up to the edge of the rules but don't cross them. That's a good
thing. That's a key element of sport.

JT
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or merely popularized

> How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate. Another alternative
> would be to use the Japanese Keirin Association approach where there is no
> questioning the spirit of the rules whatsoever.

There ya go, have everyone in the TDF, Use Ganwell Pro or Nagasawa steel
framed bikes exactly equipped, and race the TDF, see who wins, be like an
IROC race

Dave
 
"Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or merely popularized
>
> > How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate. Another
alternative
> > would be to use the Japanese Keirin Association approach where there is
no
> > questioning the spirit of the rules whatsoever.
>
> There ya go, have everyone in the TDF, Use Ganwell Pro or Nagasawa steel
> framed bikes exactly equipped, and race the TDF, see who wins, be like an
> IROC race
>
> Dave

Henri D. did exactly that in some pre-WWII years of the TdF. Lets make them
all ride Raleigh Pro bikes, circa 1980.
 
"John Everett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:33:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >We'll have the answer to the question late on the afternoon of July 19th.
> >
>
> What can we expect to learn on a rest day in Nîmes? ;-)
Right you are. July 24th. Stage 19.
 
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:57:16 +0200, "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try to ensure that
>>every athlete competes using more or less the same equipment? By designing a
>>one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment that
>>gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just another example of an
>>organization that does all it can to bend the rules to its advantage
>>(remember the Actovegin almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of
>>course all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground USPS
>>might try to claim for itself.
>
>
> What moral high ground? Armstrong and his team said they don't break
> rules. And they don't. I expect and hope that athletes I admire go
> up to the edge of the rules but don't cross them. That's a good
> thing. That's a key element of sport.
>
> JT
>
>

Hey, JT--the EDGE of the rules? Can you help me with my taxes?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> > > As I said earlier, I don't know if Obree invented or merely
popularized
> >
> > > How these rules are interpreted can be quite delicate. Another
> alternative
> > > would be to use the Japanese Keirin Association approach where there
is
> no
> > > questioning the spirit of the rules whatsoever.
> >
> > There ya go, have everyone in the TDF, Use Ganwell Pro or Nagasawa steel
> > framed bikes exactly equipped, and race the TDF, see who wins, be like
an
> > IROC race
> >
> > Dave
>
> Henri D. did exactly that in some pre-WWII years of the TdF. Lets make
them
> all ride Raleigh Pro bikes, circa 1980.
>

Didn't some of those bikes have bottom bracket problems where the 'CC' was
cut out?
 
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:57:16 +0200, "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Doesn't this violate the spirit of the UCI rules, which try to ensure
that
> >>every athlete competes using more or less the same equipment? By
designing a
> >>one-of-a-kind bike with a narrower BB shell, Trek is creating equipment
that
> >>gives Lance an unfair technological advantage. Just another example of
an
> >>organization that does all it can to bend the rules to its advantage
> >>(remember the Actovegin almost-scandal?) by playing in the grey area. Of
> >>course all teams do this, but it kind of destroys any moral hgh ground
USPS
> >>might try to claim for itself.
> >
> >
> > What moral high ground? Armstrong and his team said they don't break
> > rules. And they don't. I expect and hope that athletes I admire go
> > up to the edge of the rules but don't cross them. That's a good
> > thing. That's a key element of sport.
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
>
> Hey, JT--the EDGE of the rules? Can you help me with my taxes?
>
> Steve

My tax law professor explained to us on the first day of class that we
should view our tax return as an offer only, which the government could
choose to accept or reject.
 
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