The Bike Doctor (Vancouver) mini-rant

In article <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

The Bike Doctor in Vancouver is selling straight gauge DT spokes for $1.00
each, or 60 cents each if you buy a full set. Everywhere else I've looked
has them for 50 cents each regardless of how many you buy, including La
Bicicletta, the high-end road bikie store. What gives?

You fool! You're supposed to do what I do, and buy stuff from bike shops
as they close down. I now have a nice collection of 268 mm double-butted
spokes, waiting for a mountain bike wheel to fail.

Quoted message said:

Strangely, I bought a full set from The Bike Doctor just last week, and the
mechanic there at the time only charged me 50 cents per spoke.

Out of shame? Implicit price-matching?

Quoted message said:

They also only stock spokes in 2mm increments, which although a common
practice, is pretty lame.

It halves the considerable stocking requirements for spokes. I think 2mm
is sufficient accuracy for the vast majority of spoking jobs.

Quoted message said:

It wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't advertise "great prices" and
"great selection" on their web page.

Ah, the subjective adjective. Friend to advertisers everywhere.

I'm glad for the warning, but I don't think the Bike Doc deserves
derision for their prices. Pricing happens for all kinds of strange
reasons.

For someone like me who often does shop very aggressively on price, no
bike shop and few mail-order shops make the grade. Mountain Equipment
Co-Op (home of the $14 cycle computer), bereft of the obligation to turn
a profit, does pretty good and stocks great stuff. After that, if I
can't find it at a garage sale, I probably don't need it.

Well, I do try to support Sports Junkies regularly. They treat me well,
are very close by, and have very good hours for a bike shop.

Note that I say this as someone who has a substantial collection of bike
tools, and is not afraid to use them. The only thing I'm missing that
would likely drive me to a bike shop are facing tools and thread taps.

New low price,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:49:37 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

The Bike Doctor in Vancouver is selling straight gauge DT spokes for $1.00
each, or 60 cents each if you buy a full set. Everywhere else I've looked
has them for 50 cents each regardless of how many you buy, including La
Bicicletta, the high-end road bikie store. What gives?

Strangely, I bought a full set from The Bike Doctor just last week, and the
mechanic there at the time only charged me 50 cents per spoke.

They also only stock spokes in 2mm increments, which although a common
practice, is pretty lame.

It wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't advertise "great prices" and
"great selection" on their web page.

Everyday?

Last week I bought 2 straight gauge DT at OCB! for 75 cents each -
self serve, plus tax. No discount. I wanted butted. They only had some
either too long or too short. Those would have also been 75 cents.

After reading this I went to Bike Doctor on Broadway. A guy I've never
seen before quoted $1.00 each but didn't have butted spokes of any
length. I checked a receipt from Bike Dr. on Commercial Drive in Feb.
2002. That says I paid sixty cents each for 80 straight gauge spokes
and another receipt from the same month for two spokes at a buck each.
I remember being shocked and making a mental note to not buy spokes
there.

La Bicicletta didn't have any long enough. They quoted $1.50 for
butted or $.50 straight gauge.

Mighty Rider quoted 60 cents for straight gauge and 75 for butted. He
didn't have butted spokes long enough. He has 310 mm long butted
blanks for fifty cents. Cambie or Simon's cut spokes for $1.00 each.
--
zk

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Last week I bought 2 straight gauge DT at OCB! for 75 cents each -
self serve, plus tax. No discount. I wanted butted. They only had some
either too long or too short. Those would have also been 75 cents.

75 cents for a spoke? Yikes. I'm with Ryan. I've built up an impressive
collection of spokes from closeouts, buying leftovers from shops and
scavanging from wrecked wheels. At this point I've got enough spokes so
that I'd only pay for very high end stuff, like DT Revolutions.

For anything new or good, I find OCB's little recyling depot too expensive.
For example, a mediocre used Campy C-Reord rear freewheel hub showed up.
For what they wanted for it, I was able to buy the same hub new on Ebay and
have it shipped here from the Netherlands. Sad actually.... Obviously I
have found better deals at yard sales.

They explained their pricing policy to me in that their used stuff is
ticketed at 1/2 of Canadian retail. I didn't respond, but the bottom line
is that any fool with a credit card can mail order new stuff for 1/2 of
Canadian retail...

Thu, 09 Sep 2004 03:43:09 GMT, <hjQ%c.363200$gE.332811@pd7tw3no>,

Dave Mayer said:

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Last week I bought 2 straight gauge DT at OCB! for 75 cents each -
self serve, plus tax. No discount. I wanted butted. They only had some
either too long or too short. Those would have also been 75 cents.

75 cents for a spoke? Yikes. I'm with Ryan. I've built up an impressive
collection of spokes from closeouts, buying leftovers from shops and
scavanging from wrecked wheels.

Me too but I didn't have any that length. Twenty minutes later, I did.

Cambie is the LBS closest to my home but OCB! is closest to my heart.
--
zk

Ryan Cousineau said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Strangely, I bought a full set from The Bike Doctor just last week, and
the mechanic there at the time only charged me 50 cents per spoke.

Out of shame? Implicit price-matching?

I don't know. Perhaps the cashier/mechanic was confused and I benefited
from her error. I'm almost glad that they tried to charge me more the
second time, however, because that prompted me to go over to La Bicicletta
where they had the 293mm lengths I wanted. (Eight of the 294mm spokes I
got from them also turned out to be 293mm due to some bin mixing, and I had
to go back again today, but that's another story. Anyway, they replaced
them apologetically.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They also only stock spokes in 2mm increments, which although a common
practice, is pretty lame.

It halves the considerable stocking requirements for spokes. I think 2mm
is sufficient accuracy for the vast majority of spoking jobs.

Piffle.

"No, spokes come in 1mm lengths from low 200s thru 310 or so. Places that
stock or can get only even sizes are bein lazy...."
--- Peter Chisolm, Vecchio's Bicicletteria, 2004-04-24 05:58:55 PST

:P

That's 110 boxes of spokes, perhaps a few more for popular sizes. Is that
really a "considerable stocking requirement"?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't advertise "great prices"
and "great selection" on their web page.

Ah, the subjective adjective. Friend to advertisers everywhere.

I'm glad for the warning, but I don't think the Bike Doc deserves
derision for their prices. Pricing happens for all kinds of strange
reasons.

I had the impression looking around that a lot of their other prices were
fairly high as well, but perhaps that's because I buy a lot of those things
at MEC.

Can I deride them because all the mechanics there that I talked to thought
nickel-plated brass spoke nipples were made of steel?

They are one of the few bike stores in Vancouver that have Brooks saddles,
which is a point in their favour for me. (I think Reckless does as well).

Quoted message said:

Well, I do try to support Sports Junkies regularly. They treat me well,
are very close by, and have very good hours for a bike shop.

Note that I say this as someone who has a substantial collection of bike
tools, and is not afraid to use them. The only thing I'm missing that
would likely drive me to a bike shop are facing tools and thread taps.

I actually would like to have an M5 tap. I've looked for one a couple
times. A guy at Rona suggested Sears, but I have yet to look there.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

In article <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Strangely, I bought a full set from The Bike Doctor just last week, and
the mechanic there at the time only charged me 50 cents per spoke.

Out of shame? Implicit price-matching?

I don't know. Perhaps the cashier/mechanic was confused and I benefited
from her error. I'm almost glad that they tried to charge me more the
second time, however, because that prompted me to go over to La Bicicletta
where they had the 293mm lengths I wanted. (Eight of the 294mm spokes I
got from them also turned out to be 293mm due to some bin mixing, and I had
to go back again today, but that's another story. Anyway, they replaced
them apologetically.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They also only stock spokes in 2mm increments, which although a common
practice, is pretty lame.

It halves the considerable stocking requirements for spokes. I think 2mm
is sufficient accuracy for the vast majority of spoking jobs.

Piffle.

"No, spokes come in 1mm lengths from low 200s thru 310 or so. Places that
stock or can get only even sizes are bein lazy...."
--- Peter Chisolm, Vecchio's Bicicletteria, 2004-04-24 05:58:55 PST

:P

That's 110 boxes of spokes, perhaps a few more for popular sizes. Is that
really a "considerable stocking requirement"?

Unless my guesses are incorrect, that amounts to an $1100 inventory at
wholesale prices. Whether that is a lot or not depends entirely on how
fast one turns over the spoke stock. Except for shops that routinely
build their own wheels, I'd say the answer is "not very often."

Note that the Bike Doc, while quite a competent shop, probably doesn't
build a lot of wheels (at least compared to, say, La Bicicletta) because
it specializes in commuters and other urban types. I happen to know that
they can get in a serviceable 27" pre-built wheel for about $40, because
that's what they did for me. At that price, you have to have a pretty
good reason to buy spokes, hubs, and rims separately (mine is that I'm
really really cheap, but we already went over that). I doubt most
commuters have a good reason to do so, compared to buying the pre-built
wheel.

Heck, even if you wanted a "better" wheel, the best price-performance
would probably be to start with a cheap prebuilt wheel and ask the shop
to tension and true it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't advertise "great prices"
and "great selection" on their web page.

Ah, the subjective adjective. Friend to advertisers everywhere.

I'm glad for the warning, but I don't think the Bike Doc deserves
derision for their prices. Pricing happens for all kinds of strange
reasons.

I had the impression looking around that a lot of their other prices were
fairly high as well, but perhaps that's because I buy a lot of those things
at MEC.

Precisely. MEC is really cheap on most of the stuff they carry. There is
a reason everybody in town owns a red Beto pump bought at MEC: because
compararable pumps start at twice the price ($25 for the Beto; $50+ for
a Joe Blow or Park). I believe MEC makes a deliberate decision to _not_
carry whole bicycles out of a desire to not become an all-consuming
vortex of bike gear, which they could probably do on a whim.

BTW, the Fall Gear Swap is coming up. If you can stand in line for 3+
hours, the world is yours for a song.

Quoted message said:

Can I deride them because all the mechanics there that I talked to thought
nickel-plated brass spoke nipples were made of steel?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

They are one of the few bike stores in Vancouver that have Brooks saddles,
which is a point in their favour for me. (I think Reckless does as well).

Quoted message said:

Well, I do try to support Sports Junkies regularly. They treat me well,
are very close by, and have very good hours for a bike shop.

Note that I say this as someone who has a substantial collection of bike
tools, and is not afraid to use them. The only thing I'm missing that
would likely drive me to a bike shop are facing tools and thread taps.

I actually would like to have an M5 tap. I've looked for one a couple
times. A guy at Rona suggested Sears, but I have yet to look there.

Sears probably, but I happen to have a catalog for "The Unique World of
Princess Auto" (which really is the slogan they use). This excellent
business (location within riding distance of the Sapperton and Braid
Skytrain stations) lists a metric tap and die set which includes M5 taps
and dies for $35. The smaller $20 set doesn't go down to M5.

Princess Auto is a tool-nerd's paradise, and the Coquitlam location is
in close proximity to KMS Tools and some other good specialty shops.

Why is Princess Auto so cool? They sell everything from obsolete cell
phone batteries to 75-ton hydraulic presses. And their metric hex wrench
sets cost $3.

-RjC.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Ryan Cousineau said:

Heck, even if you wanted a "better" wheel, the best price-performance
would probably be to start with a cheap prebuilt wheel and ask the shop
to tension and true it.

Or better yet, to tension and true it yourself.

Quoted message said:

Sears probably, but I happen to have a catalog for "The Unique World of
Princess Auto" (which really is the slogan they use). This excellent
business (location within riding distance of the Sapperton and Braid
Skytrain stations) lists a metric tap and die set which includes M5 taps
and dies for $35. The smaller $20 set doesn't go down to M5.

Princess Auto is a tool-nerd's paradise, and the Coquitlam location is
in close proximity to KMS Tools and some other good specialty shops.

Why is Princess Auto so cool? They sell everything from obsolete cell
phone batteries to 75-ton hydraulic presses. And their metric hex wrench
sets cost $3.

Ooh, very cool. Thanks for the heads-up; I'll definitely check it out.

What exactly is "within riding distance"?

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover
^^^^^^^^^^^
Oral-genital intimacy would be like, say, talking to someone about intimate
sexual details? So, if you stood in the middle of an interstate highway and
did that, the FBI could act. Thank God.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Heck, even if you wanted a "better" wheel, the best price-performance
would probably be to start with a cheap prebuilt wheel and ask the shop
to tension and true it.

Or better yet, to tension and true it yourself.

Or better yet, scavenge it from a dumpster! And add spokes you found at
a closing-out bicycle shop! And bearings recycled from some other wheel!
Using tools you were given by your brother!*

*I think I've done all of the things in this paragraph.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sears probably, but I happen to have a catalog for "The Unique World of
Princess Auto" (which really is the slogan they use). This excellent
business (location within riding distance of the Sapperton and Braid
Skytrain stations) lists a metric tap and die set which includes M5 taps
and dies for $35. The smaller $20 set doesn't go down to M5.

Princess Auto is a tool-nerd's paradise, and the Coquitlam location is
in close proximity to KMS Tools and some other good specialty shops.

Why is Princess Auto so cool? They sell everything from obsolete cell
phone batteries to 75-ton hydraulic presses. And their metric hex wrench
sets cost $3.

Ooh, very cool. Thanks for the heads-up; I'll definitely check it out.

What exactly is "within riding distance"?

About a mile. Princess Auto is a block from new Ikea. Notable hazards:
you have to ride over the Brunette overpass.

A map showing the location:

http://princessauto.com/PAcountry.cfm?CTRY=CAN&INF=loc&SPC=1

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:01:21 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,

Ryan Cousineau said:

Or better yet, scavenge it from a dumpster! And add spokes you found at
a closing-out bicycle shop! And bearings recycled from some other wheel!
Using tools you were given by your brother!*

I recently donated a 20" rear wheel to OCB! that had sorta come from
their own trash bin. It was tossed out as a front wheel with a
slightly rusted chrome rim. I wanted the hub to make a matching pair
of trailer wheels. So, I took it home stripped it and laced the rear
hub I had into the cleaned-up rim, added a freewheel and gave it back.

Cost me nothing except that Johan called me a "freak".
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:01:21 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,

Ryan Cousineau said:

Or better yet, scavenge it from a dumpster! And add spokes you found at
a closing-out bicycle shop! And bearings recycled from some other wheel!
Using tools you were given by your brother!*

I recently donated a 20" rear wheel to OCB! that had sorta come from
their own trash bin. It was tossed out as a front wheel with a
slightly rusted chrome rim. I wanted the hub to make a matching pair
of trailer wheels. So, I took it home stripped it and laced the rear
hub I had into the cleaned-up rim, added a freewheel and gave it back.

Cost me nothing except that Johan called me a "freak".

Okay Zoot, you win this round.

But all will bow before the Super Auto-Mini once I finish it!

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why is Princess Auto so cool? They sell everything from obsolete cell
phone batteries to 75-ton hydraulic presses. And their metric hex wrench
sets cost $3.

My ears keep hearing that as "Princess Otto", and I get this strange
image of a royal Austrian transvestite.

But they are cools stores. Wish I had one nearby (downtown Toronto.)

Ryan Cousineau said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Ooh, very cool. Thanks for the heads-up; I'll definitely check it out.

What exactly is "within riding distance"?

About a mile. Princess Auto is a block from new Ikea. Notable hazards:
you have to ride over the Brunette overpass.

A map showing the location:

http://princessauto.com/PAcountry.cfm?CTRY=CAN&INF=loc&SPC=1

Thanks. Where is the Brunette overpass? I've ridden out along Lougheed
highway past that location, and I don't seem to recall any hazardous
overpasses.

In fact, a number of our brevets have started very close to that location.
It's about a 40-45 minute ride from my house at my speed, I believe. It
should make a nice fixie ride.

Latest incarnation of fixie:
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/fixie9a.jpg
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/fixie10a.jpg
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/fixie11a.jpg
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/fixie12a.jpg

Changes:
- "cowhorn" handle bars made from sawed-off drops.
- cork tape started pissing me off (ripping too easily), so I've replaced
it with nylon lashing strap to which I applied shellac. Not as soft
(rock-hard, in fact), but it sure looks nicer.
- shorter (171mm!) Maxy cranks.
- in a concession to safety, lights.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

In article <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Ooh, very cool. Thanks for the heads-up; I'll definitely check it out.

What exactly is "within riding distance"?

About a mile. Princess Auto is a block from new Ikea. Notable hazards:
you have to ride over the Brunette overpass.

A map showing the location:

http://princessauto.com/PAcountry.cfm?CTRY=CAN&INF=loc&SPC=1

Thanks. Where is the Brunette overpass? I've ridden out along Lougheed
highway past that location, and I don't seem to recall any hazardous
overpasses.

That's the overpass that connects New Westminster and Coquitlam over the
freeway. The prime hazard is the sheer volume of cars, moving at speed,
and merging on and off. Not impassable by any means: I occasionally ride
it on my commute, as part of an alternate route. It's the obvious route
between Skytrain and Coquitlam (though I think there is an alternate
back route).

By bike, the directions to Princess Auto are easy: head east on
Lougheed. take the first right after you pass Ikea, go just over a block
further, and take the first right after you go under the freeway and
over the railroad tracks. You're now at Princess Auto.

Quoted message said:

In fact, a number of our brevets have started very close to that location.
It's about a 40-45 minute ride from my house at my speed, I believe. It
should make a nice fixie ride.

Latest incarnation of fixie:
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/fixie9a.jpg

Quoted message said:

Changes:
- "cowhorn" handle bars made from sawed-off drops.
- cork tape started pissing me off (ripping too easily), so I've replaced
it with nylon lashing strap to which I applied shellac. Not as soft
(rock-hard, in fact), but it sure looks nicer.
- shorter (171mm!) Maxy cranks.
- in a concession to safety, lights.

The bike looks good. In the course of preparing a bike for sale, the
prospective owner mentioned to me that she would have to wear gloves, as
she was allergic to rubber (such as "cork" tape seems to consist of
these days). I found the perfect solution in MEC's bins: cloth bar tape.
Not much softer than shellac'd nylon, but a bit better. And it looks
nice (it helped that the black cotton tape matched the black bike).

What are you using for a rear hub? It looks like a standard freewheel
hub with a bottom bracket lockring on the threads. Correct?

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Ryan Cousineau said:

The bike looks good. In the course of preparing a bike for sale, the
prospective owner mentioned to me that she would have to wear gloves, as
she was allergic to rubber (such as "cork" tape seems to consist of
these days). I found the perfect solution in MEC's bins: cloth bar tape.
Not much softer than shellac'd

I wondered how that was spelled, and then eventually contorted my sentence
to avoid it altogether.

Quoted message said:

nylon, but a bit better.

Define "better" :P My theory is that I'll be able to keep the shellac-ed
surface nice looking more easily and for longer.

Quoted message said:

What are you using for a rear hub? It looks like a standard freewheel
hub with a bottom bracket lockring on the threads. Correct?

Yes, exactly. It's just some cheapo thing I found at OCB.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover