The Big "O"

Another reason to buy organic is to preserve the environment. The use
of pesticides affects not only the produce, but also their environment.
Indeed, we are seeing the affects in the lack of bees and other such
creatures. Also, the heavy use of pesticides and pesticide/herbicide
resistant plants seem to lead to greater production, but lesser quality
produce. Heirloom tomatoes come to mind, and most people know the
varieties of tomatoes they grow in their garden often taste better than
the mass prodcuced varieties selected primarily on their yield.

That said, I buy a mix of mostly non-organics with a few organic items.
I would consider changing to a larger proportion of organics if the
economies of scale brought the price within a more comparable range.
Even accounting for lesser yields, organics still carry a premium on
them that can only be explained by the smaller size of the market.

Oddly enough, one of the best places to learn about this is Disney
World. Their Land exihibition in the Epcot center has a very
interesting "behind the scenes" tour, where they take you through their
organic gardens and explain such concepts as integrated pest
management.

Dean G.

The Land gardens at Epcot are organic? They're all hydroponic! How
does that work?

maxine in ri

They are not all hydroponic. Some are in soil mediums, and some are
"aeroponic". I'm not sure if they are all organic, but I do believe
that most if not all are.

Dean G.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dean G. said:

I would consider changing to a larger proportion of organics if the
economies of scale brought the price within a more comparable range.
Even accounting for lesser yields, organics still carry a premium on
them that can only be explained by the smaller size of the market.

So if people won't buy organic until it reaches an economy of scale
that reduces the price, how does it _achieve_ that economy of scale?

You make a couple of incorrect assumptions -- or, more correctly,
leave a few things out. Food that is not genetically-modified or
contains artificial preservatives has a shorter shelf life, which
raises its price because it can't be sold for so long. Many organic
farmers and do not receive the subsidies the U.S. government
provides growers of corn, wheat, and soybeans, which raises the
price of these and other crops (because you're actually paying more
of the true cost as an individual consumer). It certainly is cheaper
to house a few thousand chickens or cattle in one building than to
let them range freely. And you may be surprised to find out how many
large food companies (like Unilever, Kellogg, General Mills,
Coca-Cola, and Dean, among others) own natural-food companies. Think
they couldn't apply _some_ economies of scale -- if they wanted to?

There are many good reasons why organics appear to cost more than
conventional foods. Whether organic truly does cost more or whether
conventional foods simply shift the costs of topsoil erosion and
food additive testing and regulation and the like to all of us is a
conversation of itself.

sd

In article <[email hidden]>,
sd <[email hidden]> wrote:
(snipped)

Quoted message said:

let them range freely. And you may be surprised to find out how many
large food companies (like Unilever, Kellogg, General Mills,

I was stunned to learn that GM owns Muir Glen, part of its Small Planet
Foods.

Quoted message said:

sd

--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 10-20-05 with a note from Niece Jo.

"sd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dean G. said:

I would consider changing to a larger proportion of organics if the
economies of scale brought the price within a more comparable range.
Even accounting for lesser yields, organics still carry a premium on
them that can only be explained by the smaller size of the market.

So if people won't buy organic until it reaches an economy of scale
that reduces the price, how does it _achieve_ that economy of scale?

You make a couple of incorrect assumptions -- or, more correctly,
leave a few things out. Food that is not genetically-modified or
contains artificial preservatives has a shorter shelf life, which
raises its price because it can't be sold for so long. Many organic
farmers and do not receive the subsidies the U.S. government
provides growers of corn, wheat, and soybeans, which raises the
price of these and other crops (because you're actually paying more
of the true cost as an individual consumer). It certainly is cheaper
to house a few thousand chickens or cattle in one building than to
let them range freely. And you may be surprised to find out how many
large food companies (like Unilever, Kellogg, General Mills,
Coca-Cola, and Dean, among others) own natural-food companies. Think
they couldn't apply _some_ economies of scale -- if they wanted to?

There are many good reasons why organics appear to cost more than
conventional foods. Whether organic truly does cost more or whether
conventional foods simply shift the costs of topsoil erosion and
food additive testing and regulation and the like to all of us is a
conversation of itself.

sd

As long as I have a buck to spend, I will chose organic. (Yes, it may break
me.) In the last 13 years I've lived near Winchester, VA, we now have many
vegetables in one regular grocery store that are organic. All vegetables
there are high priced, and the organic even tho higher, are not as much more
as I would expect, nor as much more than Whole Foods are; but WF is in
Vienna, VA which is an up-scale community. Sometimes WF organic prices
scare me! One thing tho, WF produce is almost always fresh looking.
Dee Dee

Sheldon said:

Organics: Are They Worth It?

A guide to deciding what to buy for your family

By Melissa Balmain

Organic grapes: $2.99 a pound. Organic milk: $3.59 a half gallon.
Organic peanut butter: $4.89 a jar. Which - if any - are worth the
extra money?

Some experts say the answer's simple: You needn't spend a cent on
organics, because all foods and drinks are kept safe by strict
government standards. But many doctors and researchers recommend
organics because harsh pesticides, artificial hormones, and antibiotics
aren't used to produce them. And some people think organic food just
tastes better.

More study is needed before it's clear how organics can make families
healthier. For now, the most important thing is to feed your kids a
variety of whole grains, fresh produce, and other nutritious stuff -
organic or not.

A good rule of thumb for organic foods, from Environmental Working
Group, a research and advocacy organization in Washington, DC: Choose
organic versions of things your kids eat all the time. More to help you
decide whether to buy organics:

Fruits and veggies
Conventional produce - fresh or frozen - is generally higher in
pesticides than any other food group. There's no proof that such
residues harm children or fetuses. But since studies suggest that
overall exposure to pesticides (through air, water, and food) threatens
our health and development, many experts advise lowering your exposure
any way you can. Organic produce has few or no strong pesticides, and
may contain more nutrients such as vitamin C, flavonoids, and zinc.
Worth buying organic? Yes, to avoid produce that's heaviest in
pesticides: apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported grapes,
nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes, red raspberries, spinach, and
strawberries. For more info, see www.foodnews.org.

Fruit juice, applesauce, and dried fruit
Juice and applesauce are much lower in pesticides than the fruits
they're made from. But many kids consume so much of both that their
exposure levels concern researchers. Ditto for raisins and other dried
fruit, which may develop concentrated pesticide residues in the drying
process.
Worth buying organic? Only if your child's a heavy drinker of 100
percent fruit juice or really loves applesauce and dried fruit. (Fruit
"drinks," "cocktails," "punches," and "ades" are basically sugar water,
so organics don't offer any advantage.)

Meat, dairy, and eggs
Meat and dairy are relatively low in pesticides, but they contain
hormones and antibiotics (at levels the government says are safe).
Bovine growth hormone, given to dairy cows, may well be harmless to us
in itself, but it makes cows produce more of a second hormone that some
research suggests might raise the risk of certain cancers. Antibiotic
residues are so slight that they probably won't affect your family
directly, but their massive use on farms helps spawn drug-resistant
bacteria that can reach us - through undercooked burgers, for
instance. Those bacteria share their resistance with other bugs, making
antibiotics less effective for people. Organics contain neither
hormones nor antibiotics.
Organic meats also are required to be free of potentially harmful
artificial preservatives like nitrates or nitrites, which are in hot
dogs and some deli meats.
Beyond that, there's no clear nutritional bonus to organic meats,
dairy, and eggs unless they come from grass-fed cattle or pastured
poultry, which may contain more healthy ingredients such as omega-3
fatty acids and vitamin E. (To find them near you, go to
www.eatwild.com.)
Worth buying organic? Yes, if your child eats a lot of nitrate-heavy
meats, or you're concerned about the possible risk of hormones and the
state of antibiotic resistance.

Baby food
Most baby foods, from purees to juices to teething biscuits, have few
or no pesticide residues, synthetic hormones, or antibiotics.
Worth buying organic? No.

Bread, cereal, and pasta
Grains tend to have lower pesticide residues than produce, but organic
versions may provide more fiber and nutrients because they are less
processed.
Worth buying organic? Less so than other food groups. (And if your
child's eating any whole grains - even nonorganic ones - that's a
coup!)

Other ways to make meals safer
If you don't buy organics, these steps can help lighten pesticide
residues and other risks.

Wash produce (including organics) thoroughly in running water - even
thick-skinned fruits such as melons, since cutting an unwashed rind can
contaminate a fruit's insides.

Choose skim or low-fat milk and lean meats whenever possible.
Pesticides and pollutants such as dioxin (which is also found in
organics) tend to be concentrated in fat.

There's no such thing as organic fish, but you can lower your exposure
to toxins by removing skin and draining fat. If your kids like tuna,
stick to "light" canned tuna, rather than albacore, or "white," which
has more mercury.
---

Sheldon

damn Sheldon, why do you want to educate us on the contaminates we
ingest through our daily groceries! Now I feel like locking myself
away in the penthouse of a Vegas hotel like Howard Hughes or
something...

What's a person to eat that is not contaminated?

Bill

In article <[email hidden]>,

Melba's Jammin said:

I was stunned to learn that GM owns Muir Glen, part of its Small Planet
Foods.

Yup. Here's a list of some of the other conglomerates which own
significant stakes in (or entire) organic-food companies:

Danone Stonyfield yogurt (Danone brands include Dannon yogurt
and Evian)
Dean Foods Horizon dairy, Rachel's Organic, White Wave (including
Silk soy milk) (Dean brands include Hershey's milks,
some Land O'Lakes products, Meadow Gold, numerous
regional dairies, and Stroh's)
General Mills Cascadian Farms, Muir Glen
Heinz Hain (Garden of Eatin', Celestial Seasonings,
Arrowhead Mills, Earth's Best, Health Valley, Rice
Dream/Soy Dream, Terra chips, Nile Spice, Westbrae,
and several other organic brands)
Kellogg Kashi
Kraft Boca Foods, Balance Bar
M&M/Mars Seeds of Change
J.M. Smucker After the Fall, Santa Cruz Organic, R.W. Knudsen Family

Ownership by a large multinational corporation is not a bad thing of
itself, but it does point out some of the economic issues facing
smaller organic producers as the competition for market share gets
tougher and tougher. There also is the question of how large
corporations can work in the quantities they are used to and still
stay organic and economically/ecologically viable.

sd