The Alps and high altitude

"Antti Salonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm planning a trip to the Alps in early August. The current plan is to
first spend four nights in Austria, then three in Slovenia and finally
eight in Italy. Right now it looks like the third day of riding will
already introduce a serious mountain day, as the route includes riding
the Grossglocknerstrasse from Zell am See down to Heiligenblut.

Later on, perhaps inspired by Jobst Brandt's reports and photographs, I
also intend to ride the Stelvio, Gavia, Mortirolo and Bernina.
We're staying the final four nights in Livigno, so these will be easily
covered from there. As some of you undoubtedly know, many of these
roads go higher than 2500 metres above sea level.

I'm a healthy young man and being both lightweight and reasonably strong
as a cyclist, so I'm not worried about the long distances or the climbs
itself. I have done the physics and with reasonable gearing I should be
fine. I've also seen most of these mountain passes from the backseat of
a car as a kid, before I picked up cycling, so I know what to expect.

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble, if
do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to break mine or
anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final four nights in
Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower altitudes.

-as

I live at 660 feet (200 m), and go on yearly cycling trips to Colorado. The
elevation there is routinely in excess of 6000 feet (1800). On my last trip
there, I rode to the summit of Mt. Evans (14000 feet - 4200 m).

I find that below 10000 feet (3000 m), I don't have too many problems. You
just need to remember to drink more water, and go at your own pace. You
might want to carry some aspirin in case of altitude induced headaches.

However, everyone is different and some people have problems with altitude
at even lower elevations.

To learn more about altitude induced health issues:

http://www.high-altitude-medicine.com/

http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/safety/altitude.html

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

Antti Salonen said:

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble,
if do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to break mine or
anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final four nights in
Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower altitudes.

If you are in good physical condition before the trip you won't notice
anything unless you have something with which to compare your
performance. You won't notice that you climb more slowly at high
altitude as at low. Another reason you won't be able to tell is how
well rested you are from the day before or from other climbs earlier
in the day. It's all relative. Besides, grades like the
Grossglockner are hard to compare to other climbs because it has a
fairly continuous grade. Other passes as high as that often have
flatter stretches that make them less tiring even though the rise as
high.

Just ride bike! You'll have a ball.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Antti Salonen said:

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble,

I live in Colorado (at 5000 feet) and have had guests come and visit
from near sea level. When we go hiking in the mountains (9000-12000
feet) they typically get winded much quicker then they expect, and
usually comment on how out-of-breath they are. I think it varies by
person, but you may experience the same.

Also, there's the possibilty of getting a mild headache do to the
altitude. Taking an asperin before hiking up high is not uncommon to
ward off the headache. And be sure to drink lots of water.

Rich

P.S. I'd use meters instead of feet, but we Americans are too stubborn
to adapt.....

Quoted message said:

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble, if
do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to break mine or
anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final four nights in
Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower altitudes.

Don't worry about it. There's nothing you can do ahead of time that will
make a difference anyway!

In general, if you start your ride from a high altitude, you may find
yourself a bit winded for a few minutes, because your mind says that *this*
is how you start out your rides, but your lungs say otherwise. Just give it
a bit of time and everything evens out. Seriously, it's often at the start
of the climb where you might feel worst, but things get better as you go.

Also, as others have mentioned, drink *lots* of water. You have to force
yourself, because most of us develop routines (in terms of how much water we
drink) that have more to do with, well, routine, than they do what we
actually need to be drinking. At higher altitudes, you're breathing faster,
and you lose water every time you exhale. Drink. And yes, that means you'll
be dealing with the rental nature of drinking, but in Europe, seeing people
taking a leak by the side of the road is the norm, not unusual. Very common
in traffic jams too (seen that one a few times, surprised me at first!).

Lastly, you'll feel much worse *off* the bike than on it. Probably because
you have a point of reference with "normal" (as in, you can normally go up a
flight of stairs without feeling like you're out of breath). But on the
bike, life is good!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:59:21 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<[email hidden]>concluded:

Quoted message said:

But on the bike, life is good!

Not only is it good, it's better!
--
zk

no trouble at all. You just enjoy ridinng bike on the natural path.
Don't go
too fast. Keep your own face. Drinking water. Be care on rough surface
like rock.
Enjoy the uphill climbing. Of course, enjoy the surroudnng view. I
wish
I want to go with you...

Antti Salonen said:

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble, if
do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to break mine or
anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final four nights in
Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower altitudes.

I live at 4700ft/1430m, and in my younger days used to work summers at
8000ft/2440m. I never had altitude sickness (and it is pretty rare below
10,000ft/3500m), but I did notice that for the first week or so of each
summer, I tired easily. You would probably be well advised to take it
easy early in your trip, and leave strenuous riding at altitude for the
latter part of your trip.
Apart from that, though, hey, you're a cyclist--you're fit. You'll be
fine.

Bill

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|Real e-mail: [email hidden], minus the letters w/ tails.|
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Bill what!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any
trouble, if do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to
break mine or anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final
four nights in Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower
altitudes.

Quoted message said:

I live at 4700ft/1430m, and in my younger days used to work summers
at 8000ft/2440m. I never had altitude sickness (and it is pretty
rare below 10,000ft/3500m), but I did notice that for the first week
or so of each summer, I tired easily. You would probably be well
advised to take it easy early in your trip, and leave strenuous
riding at altitude for the latter part of your trip. Apart from
that, though, hey, you're a cyclist--you're fit. You'll be fine.

That's because:

http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/poem/jabberwocky.html

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article said:

Antti Salonen said:

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble, if
do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to break mine or
anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final four nights in
Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower altitudes.

I live at 4700ft/1430m, and in my younger days used to work summers at
8000ft/2440m. I never had altitude sickness (and it is pretty rare below
10,000ft/3500m),

_ There's a big difference between living at 4700ft bopping up to
8 or 10K and doing the same thing when you live at sea
level. When I lived in Boulder,CO I never had a problem zipping
up to the treeline and above (10-11K). However now that I live a
sea level, I run into problems every once in a while at 9k or
so. Severe altitude sickness is not common below 10K, but mild
alitude sickness is very common around 8k for people coming up
from sea level. A recently survey at shows that up to 25% of
people have some symptoms.

http://tinyurl.com/4t8z8

_ My advice is to not worry, drink a lot and try and sleep
low if you can, especially the first few nights.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Coming from Finland, this may not bother you, but my biggest problem on the
Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse was the cold when I started back down.
Working as hard as I did going up, I wasn't paying too much attention to how
cold it was getting, but when I started downhill and was just coasting, I
quickly found my hands cold and my teeth chattering. I still wan't used to
it when I got low enough that it warmed up again. BTW, I bike commute to
work during winter in Wisconsin, so I'm not a complete wimp when it comes to
handling cold. But this particular day in August came as a real shock to my
system.

"Antti Salonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm planning a trip to the Alps in early August. The current plan is to
first spend four nights in Austria, then three in Slovenia and finally
eight in Italy. Right now it looks like the third day of riding will
already introduce a serious mountain day, as the route includes riding
the Grossglocknerstrasse from Zell am See down to Heiligenblut.

Later on, perhaps inspired by Jobst Brandt's reports and photographs, I
also intend to ride the Stelvio, Gavia, Mortirolo and Bernina.
We're staying the final four nights in Livigno, so these will be easily
covered from there. As some of you undoubtedly know, many of these
roads go higher than 2500 metres above sea level.

I'm a healthy young man and being both lightweight and reasonably strong
as a cyclist, so I'm not worried about the long distances or the climbs
itself. I have done the physics and with reasonable gearing I should be
fine. I've also seen most of these mountain passes from the backseat of
a car as a kid, before I picked up cycling, so I know what to expect.

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble, if
do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to break mine or
anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final four nights in
Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower altitudes.

-as

"Antti Salonen" wrote ...
<snip description of really cool proposed bicycle tour>

Quoted message said:

However, living at sea level, I have absolutely no experience with
riding at high altitudes. Is there any reason to expect any trouble, if
do these rides at a fairly easy pace, not trying to break mine or
anybody else's climbing records? Except for the final four nights in
Livigno, we're mostly going to stay at lower altitudes.

-as

Working high and sleeping low, as you propose to do, is exactly how
mountaineers acclimatise to much higher altitiudes than what you propose to
travel at. It usually takes about 24 hours at high altitude (3000 m / 10000
ft above sea level) for the more serious forms of altitude sickness to
manifest themselves, and the standard cure for those problems is to descend
to lower elevation. Since you're crossing passes and can descend fairly
rapidly once you hit the top, any altitude related problems should sort
themselves out pretty easily.

As Ron Wallenfang pointed out, high mountain passes can be surprisingly cold
in the summer, and summer snowstorms are an occasional fact of life in the
mountains. The danger here is that too many people are caught by surprise
and find themselves underdressed for sub-freezing temps. The wind generated
while descending fast on a bicycle adds to the problem.

Last August a friend and I got caught in a snowstorm while cycling up Mt.
Evans (14,000 ft / 4200 m) in Colorado. We just barely had enough clothing
to make it down without mishap, although my friend's lack of bodyfat meant
that she was in the early stages of hypothermia when we finally got indoors.
My biggest concern was that my (and my friend's) hands would stiffen up to
where we couldn't squeeze the brake levers.

Enjoy the tour!
--
mark

mark said:

Last August a friend and I got caught in a snowstorm while cycling up Mt.
Evans (14,000 ft / 4200 m) in Colorado. We just barely had enough clothing
to make it down without mishap, although my friend's lack of bodyfat meant
that she was in the early stages of hypothermia when we finally got indoors.
My biggest concern was that my (and my friend's) hands would stiffen up to
where we couldn't squeeze the brake levers.

A few years ago I drove up Evans. On the summit I met a couple of
cyclists in the same situation: underdressed and worried about the
descent. They took one look at my bike rack and bummed a ride down.
There's no disgrace in knowing your limitations.

Bill

__o | Roads aren't for cars. They're for people.
_`\(,_ |
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