Test ride P38,Strada,Corsa

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
> ...
> I'm still leaning towards the Giro 20 but a VRex is a close 2nd. Can
> you put slightly wider tires on the VRex? The specs say 100psi but I
> was thinking about 65psi. I want something that can handle bumps, like
> riding off a curb for example....

Unless the RANS V-Rex has changed, you should be able to fit a set of
Schwalbe Big Apple [1] tires, which will provide reasonable rolling
resistance while fulfilling your other requirements.

Note as the Lightning P-38 is being considered, certain Lightning forks
do not have clearance for fat tires. The rear of the P-38 is fairly
tight, and the choice in wide tires in the ISO 622-mm size [2] is
restricted compared to the ISO 559-mm ATB size.

[1]
<http://schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/fatty/big_apple_details>.
[2] Known to Luddites as 700C.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

 

[[email protected]]

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> Unless the RANS V-Rex has changed, you should be able to fit a set of
> Schwalbe Big Apple [1] tires, which will provide reasonable rolling
> resistance while fulfilling your other requirements.
>
> Note as the Lightning P-38 is being considered, certain Lightning forks
> do not have clearance for fat tires. The rear of the P-38 is fairly
> tight, and the choice in wide tires in the ISO 622-mm size [2] is
> restricted compared to the ISO 559-mm ATB size.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering about that.

I talked with a guy who works for Bacchetta and he recommended 1.5" 100
psi tires for bumpy conditions as opposed to 65 psi. He said the 65 psi
were prone to pinch flats. I'm not going to be mtn biking but I want to
at least be able to handle bumps and hard packed dirt trails.

 

[Kevin O'Neill]

On 27 Aug 2006 07:21:52 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>I'm new to recumbents and I test rode 3 bikes yesterday.
>
>P38 - I really liked the seat and the handlebars. I thought the
>handling was twitchy.
>
>Strada - My shins hit the handlebars, and the guy at the bike shop said
>there was no adjustment. I like the euromesh seat and the handling. The
>tires looked way to thin and fragile for the kind of riding I want to
>do.
>
>Corsa - Hate the recurve seat, I don't like the seat horn. Handling was
>good. No problem with the high BB. I didn't like the handle bars as
>much as the P38 but maybe if I adjusted them I'd like them better. The
>handlebars were pointing back horizontally compared to the P38 which
>was pointing down.
>
>I want something I can ride thru parking lots and sidewalks, something
>that can handle bumpy conditions. I'm not really interested in going
>fast. So far I'm leaning towards a Giro 20 with wider tires (65psi?)
>and a euromesh seat. Does that sound like a good choice?

I'm a fairly new bent rider, but I'll chime in anyway since you're
doing more or less exactly what I did. Thus:

The monotube designs bugged me until I rode one. I couldn't make the
Corsa frame flex noticably, and I know what frame flex feels like, my
DF bike is a '79 Bertin, so I forgot about it. It's plenty stiff for
me. And they're pretty.

I thought the undersized front wheels to be a freakin' menace in any
sort of rough riding. There was some pavement ripple near the bike
shop where I rode a RANS, and you could feel it a lot more through the
20" wheel.

I, personally, think the glide flex thing on the Corsa stem sucks. I
know a lot of people like it. I can't imagine why. I think it makes
the bike feel flakey. Try to ride an Aero to get an idea of what the
bike should feel like, I hated the Corsa until I rode the Aero. The
glideflex seemed to me to put a lot of slop in the steering, it felt
very unsure of itself even when the stem was set up parallel to the
steer tube.

I ended up getting a Corsa with a spare cromoly mountain bike fork
that had an uncut steer tube. I took the glideflex thing off and
mounted a short stem right on the steer tube and used the Bacchetta
gadget to tension the headset, it works fine and handles like an Aero.
I put a set of narrow mtb wheels and Specialized kevlar 1.25" 100 psi
slick tires on it. I like it a lot, it's the best handling bent I've
ever been on, and I don't have to worry about moderately bad pavement
or riding over a curb.

I have the carbon seat since it came with the bike and it feels good
to me, but I like the euromesh seat too. I rather agree that the
tweener bars are ugly, I was just thinking today I might take some
aluminum tube to a plumbing shop and get some custom bars bent,
something like tweener bars but with the flat sections bent out in an
arc to give my shins more clearance when turning.

--
Kevin

 

[Jeff Wills]

Kevin O'Neill wrote:

> I have the carbon seat since it came with the bike and it feels good
> to me, but I like the euromesh seat too. I rather agree that the
> tweener bars are ugly, I was just thinking today I might take some
> aluminum tube to a plumbing shop and get some custom bars bent,
> something like tweener bars but with the flat sections bent out in an
> arc to give my shins more clearance when turning.
>

Kevin: Terracycle offers bars in a variety of bends:
http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=H
and they could probably custom bend a set of bars if none of those
match your "ideal".

Also- did you try increasing the tension on the Glideflex pivot? I
found that the increase in friction made a difference in how the bike
feels.

Jeff

 

[K_S_ONeill]

Jeff Wills wrote:
> Kevin O'Neill wrote:
>
> > I have the carbon seat since it came with the bike and it feels good
> > to me, but I like the euromesh seat too. I rather agree that the
> > tweener bars are ugly, I was just thinking today I might take some
> > aluminum tube to a plumbing shop and get some custom bars bent,
> > something like tweener bars but with the flat sections bent out in an
> > arc to give my shins more clearance when turning.
> >
>
> Kevin: Terracycle offers bars in a variety of bends:
> http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=H
> and they could probably custom bend a set of bars if none of those
> match your "ideal".

Thanks. I looked there, but I don't see what I'm after. That may mean
that what I'm after is a dumb idea, who can say. I'm thinking of
something like the moustache bar shown here about halfway down the
page:

http://www.biowheels.com/Outfitter/Shop_ProductList.asp?C=130&P=129&N=Handlebars

but with a narrower center section, to let me keep my knees closer
together.

> Also- did you try increasing the tension on the Glideflex pivot? I
> found that the increase in friction made a difference in how the bike
> feels.

I did, and it helped a little, but it still felt mushy to me. I went
from a fair amount of angle to no angle, to no angle and the glideflex
torqued down as much as I could manage, to thinking "hey, if it's not
angling the stem and I'm trying to get it to act like it's one solid
bit, perhaps it's a half pound of hardware I don't need to haul around,
forsooth." And the bike does seem to me to handle better without it.
I know lots of people like it, though. Maybe I'll sell mine to one of
them, it's just sitting on a shelf and I'm not likely to put it back
on.

To be fair, I'm sure it's useful if you have long legs and short arms,
to allow you to slide the seat back and still reach the bars. I have
monkey arms, so I don't need it.

--
Kevin

 

[[email protected]]

Kevin O'Neill wrote:
> I, personally, think the glide flex thing on the Corsa stem sucks. I
> know a lot of people like it. I can't imagine why. I think it makes
> the bike feel flakey. Try to ride an Aero to get an idea of what the
> bike should feel like, I hated the Corsa until I rode the Aero. The
> glideflex seemed to me to put a lot of slop in the steering, it felt
> very unsure of itself even when the stem was set up parallel to the
> steer tube.

What is the glideflex? I just ordered a Giro 20, but I still have time
to make adjustmemts since I have to wait a month for the 2007s. One of
my concerns is the bars. I want the bike to be as manuverable as
possible at slow speeds. I'm worried about my legs hitting the bars on
slow turns and making quick adjustments.

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 11 Sep 2006 11:31:50 -0700
[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> What is the glideflex? I just ordered a Giro 20, but I still have time
> to make adjustmemts since I have to wait a month for the 2007s. One of
> my concerns is the bars. I want the bike to be as manuverable as
> possible at slow speeds. I'm worried about my legs hitting the bars on
> slow turns and making quick adjustments.

When I first got my Giro 20 I found slow tight turns almost impossible.

After a deal of practice I was able to do them, but it's no DF bike!

As an example, one of the local bike paths has a chicane effect at
road crossings. You go off the path down a ramp to the road, cross
the one lane of traffic to the middle of the road, then there's a big
lump of concrete in the middle of the road. It has an entrance for
the bike, you go 90deg left then you have a couple of feet more than a
bike length, then you have a 90deg right to exit and cross the other
side of the road.

I had to duckwalk that at first, now I can ride through it.

Sometimes I just drop the inside leg straight, sometimes I have to
unclip it, depends on speed and turn.

It isn't a trials bike, you won't be able to do fancy stuff at slow
speeds as you can on a DF. If you want that, get a delta trike!

You can adjust the bars up a fair way if you want, I haven't felt the
need to. The glideflex allows you to move them to get in and out, I
hear some people move the bars forward in slow turns to get leg
clearance. I tried it and it was awkward but with practice it would
probably work.


Zebee

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> > Unless the RANS V-Rex has changed, you should be able to fit a set of
> > Schwalbe Big Apple [1] tires, which will provide reasonable rolling
> > resistance while fulfilling your other requirements.
> >
> > Note as the Lightning P-38 is being considered, certain Lightning forks
> > do not have clearance for fat tires. The rear of the P-38 is fairly
> > tight, and the choice in wide tires in the ISO 622-mm size [2] is
> > restricted compared to the ISO 559-mm ATB size.
>
> Thanks for the info. I was wondering about that.
>
> I talked with a guy who works for Bacchetta and he recommended 1.5" 100
> psi tires for bumpy conditions as opposed to 65 psi. He said the 65 psi
> were prone to pinch flats. I'm not going to be mtn biking but I want to
> at least be able to handle bumps and hard packed dirt trails.

Resistance to pinch flatting depends on BOTH tire pressure and tire
volume. Although there is no readily available test data to prove it, I
suspect that a 60-599 Schwalbe Big Apple at 4.5-bar (65 psi) is more
pinch flat resistant than a 40-599 Primo Racer at 6.9-bar (100 psi).
The Schwalbe will also have similar or lower rolling resistance.

The Primo would be the faster tire on road due to lighter weight and
lower frontal area, and therefore a better choice for "hammerheads"
interested primarily in speed. The Big Apple would be the better choice
for a commuter or someone riding on mixed surfaces.

If you buy a recumbent with an ISO 406-mm (BMX 20") front wheel, get a
bike with adequate fork and brake clearance to use a wider tire in the
width range of 40 to 60-mm, unless you plan only to ride on well
maintained paved roads. (Some "performance" forks will only allow a
28-406 tire, which is not adequate for commuting, touring or unpaved
surfaces.)

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> ...
> As an example, one of the local bike paths has a chicane effect at
> road crossings. You go off the path down a ramp to the road, cross
> the one lane of traffic to the middle of the road, then there's a big
> lump of concrete in the middle of the road. It has an entrance for
> the bike, you go 90deg left then you have a couple of feet more than a
> bike length, then you have a 90deg right to exit and cross the other
> side of the road....

The above has no business being called a bicycle path.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

 

[Earl Bollinger]

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> ...
>> As an example, one of the local bike paths has a chicane effect at
>> road crossings. You go off the path down a ramp to the road, cross
>> the one lane of traffic to the middle of the road, then there's a big
>> lump of concrete in the middle of the road. It has an entrance for
>> the bike, you go 90deg left then you have a couple of feet more than a
>> bike length, then you have a 90deg right to exit and cross the other
>> side of the road....
>
> The above has no business being called a bicycle path.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
>

I remember reading somewhere about that being a engineering feature
(non-cyclists obviously) where they force you to slow down at traffic
crossing points, in order to minimize accidents occurring. Other features
are lots of curves and twists in the path to prevent someone from riding
along at a fast pace. The intention being to keep everyone below 10 mph or
some such speed. Thus cyclists are less of a hazard to pedestrians,
strollers, runners and joggers.
There were some other "fun" features but I forget what they are at the
moment.
So they did that on purpose.

 

[Bill Z.]

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> writes:

> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> > ...
> > As an example, one of the local bike paths has a chicane effect at
> > road crossings. You go off the path down a ramp to the road, cross
> > the one lane of traffic to the middle of the road, then there's a big
> > lump of concrete in the middle of the road. It has an entrance for
> > the bike, you go 90deg left then you have a couple of feet more than a
> > bike length, then you have a 90deg right to exit and cross the other
> > side of the road....
>
> The above has no business being called a bicycle path.

It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
both directions at once (e.g., heavy traffic with 3 lanes in each
direction, but with traffic signals causing gaps in the flow of
traffic).

It may look silly on a weekend and pretty useful during rush hour
traffic if it at least lets you get across the street without waiting
five minutes to find a gap.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

 

[amakyonin]

Bill Z. wrote:

> It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
> not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
> unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
> that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
> both directions at once

The solution for this situation is to get off the bike and become a
pedestrian. Peds have a supreme right of way that cannot be usurped by
impatient cagers. Peds with an established ROW only have to yield to
emergency vehicles. If the traffic is so heavy that no one will stop
and I can't get a gap after waiting a while then I will start to inch
my way into the crosswalk until they have to stop to avoid hitting me.
This is provided that there is a normal intersection with a crosswalk
(marked or unmarked) and not a special MUP intersection which is left
in a legal gray zone.

 

[sfb]

Cemeteries are full of pedestrians who had the right of way.

"amakyonin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Bill Z. wrote:
>
>> It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
>> not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
>> unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
>> that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
>> both directions at once
>
> The solution for this situation is to get off the bike and become a
> pedestrian. Peds have a supreme right of way that cannot be usurped by
> impatient cagers. Peds with an established ROW only have to yield to
> emergency vehicles. If the traffic is so heavy that no one will stop
> and I can't get a gap after waiting a while then I will start to inch
> my way into the crosswalk until they have to stop to avoid hitting me.
> This is provided that there is a normal intersection with a crosswalk
> (marked or unmarked) and not a special MUP intersection which is left
> in a legal gray zone.
>

 

[Bill Z.]

"amakyonin" <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
> > It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
> > not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
> > unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
> > that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
> > both directions at once
>
> The solution for this situation is to get off the bike and become a
> pedestrian.

.... irrelevant - the issue was what I presume to be a divider or
island in the center of the road, without enough width for a bike to
fit perpendicular to the street and that is not dependent on whether
you are riding the bike or walking it across.

It is sometimes much easier to cross each direction of traffic
independently, waiting for gaps at a center divider, than to have to
find a gap in both directions large enough for you to get all the way
across - and that is even more of an issue if you walk the bike
because the gap you need is longer due to needing more time to cross
the street as a pedestrian.

Finally, the ramps to get onto the divider may be used by bikes, but
they can also be required for ADA compliance (i.e., wheelchair
access).

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

 

[K_S_ONeill]

[email protected] wrote:
> Kevin O'Neill wrote:
> > I, personally, think the glide flex thing on the Corsa stem sucks. I
> > know a lot of people like it. I can't imagine why. I think it makes
> > the bike feel flakey. Try to ride an Aero to get an idea of what the
> > bike should feel like, I hated the Corsa until I rode the Aero. The
> > glideflex seemed to me to put a lot of slop in the steering, it felt
> > very unsure of itself even when the stem was set up parallel to the
> > steer tube.
>
> What is the glideflex? I just ordered a Giro 20, but I still have time
> to make adjustmemts since I have to wait a month for the 2007s. One of
> my concerns is the bars. I want the bike to be as manuverable as
> possible at slow speeds. I'm worried about my legs hitting the bars on
> slow turns and making quick adjustments.

The glideflex is the bit on the stem that allows you to pivot the stem
forward out of the way when getting on the bike, and to adjust the
angle of the stem. Like this:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U3A6130CD

Look at the Giro 20:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2B6320CD

and compare the base of the stem to the Aero:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y1C6130CD

Actually, I see that the current version of the Corsa doesn't have the
glideflex thing either, according to the picture, anyway.

The guy at one of the bike shops I test rode at said more or less what
someone out here has said, that angling the stem back towards you makes
the bike feel odd at low speeds but is very stable at high speeds.
Both our fellow arbr-er and the bike shop guy no doubt have lots more
miles on a bent than I do, so you should take my experience with a
grain of salt, but that was not my experience. I rode about 200 miles
on my Corsa with the glideflex on and set to various angles, and it
felt so funky I couldn't even bring myself to take a drink of water
while riding, I was scared to let go of the bars. I was very sad. I
really thought I'd spent a lot of money (for me, it was used, but it
still wasn't free) to get a bike I didn't like to ride. Taking the
glideflex off transformed the bike, it feels now like I get better at
handling it every time I ride it, and it feels like more of my DF
skills transfer when it's like this.

You could go ask to test ride a bike without the glideflex, and if you
don't want it they should be able to build you a Giro without one.
They have to leave the steer tube uncut, so they'll have to do it at
the factory or send you a new fork, but it will save them a part so you
might even get some money back.

--
Kevin

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

> grain of salt, but that was not my experience. I rode about 200 miles
> on my Corsa with the glideflex on and set to various angles, and it
> felt so funky I couldn't even bring myself to take a drink of water
> while riding, I was scared to let go of the bars. I was very sad. I

I find this weird.... I don't know if it's because the Corsa and Giro
20 are such different bikes, if I'm just terminally slow, or if it's
because I hven't ridden a Df in years, but I don't find this problem.

ON the flat or down hill at speeds up to 50kmh I haven't had a problem
with the bike feeling wrong. Haven't gone over those speeds because I
don't bother pedalling down hills on a commute.

I've ridden a bent where it was dead twitchy at speed, and this one
isn't.

I like the glideflex as I have short legs so its hard to get in and
out of the bike without it. I dislike it because I find it flops down
and upsets the balance of the thing when I'm getting it through doors.
But not enough to change it.

Zebee

 

[Bill Z.]

Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> writes:

> In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Tue, 12 Sep 2006 02:34:32 GMT
> Bill Z. <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > It isn't a path - it is a road crossing. While not ideal, there might
> > not have been room for a bike to wait in the center of the road
> > unless aligned parallel to traffic, and traffic levels could be such
> > that it would take a very long time to find a gap in traffic in
> > both directions at once (e.g., heavy traffic with 3 lanes in each
> > direction, but with traffic signals causing gaps in the flow of
> > traffic).
>
> I think it's more about space for bikes to wait, given that the paths
> are used a hell of a lot by recreational riders with dodgy traffic
> skills. The roads aren't heavily trafficked really, and only one lane
> each way. It might also be to make riders stop, wait, and look,
> rather than barrel out of the path and trust to God.

I think we are talking about different situations. Something in the
center of the road is useful when traffic is so heavy that it is
hard to find a safe gap to cross the street at once. If you can
go half way, you can find a gap in each direction of traffic
independently. That is only important when traffic is fairly heavy
such as during commute hours. If you use the road at a different
time of the day, you may find it all rather pointless.

> I was mistaken about the length, I said "a bike length and a couple of
> feet" but I think it's more like about 2 bike lengths. So there's
> room for a couple of people to wait.
>
> Experienced cyclists find them annoying and bypass them if possible.

Well, I wouldn't find them annoying for the situation described above,
which is a special case. We have a few paths in town that have some
sharp turns to get people to stop at a road crossing, but in this case
it is not unreasonable - the path has heavy vegetation on the sides
and the road is narrow, making it easy to not notice that you are
approaching a roadway. In addition, the path is used by children
going to school and without something to slow then down, they would
just go as fast as they could and shoot out into the intersection,
thinking very light traffic means non-existent traffic (in fact, the
curves were put in after people complained that the kids were shooting
out of the path and ending up in front of their cars).

Also, I once road along a path connecting my town to an adjacent one,
mostly to see where it went. At our end, there was a stop sign, which
also served to warn you that you were approaching a road. In the
neighboring town, there was nothing. The path curved a lot and I
ended up having to do a fairly quick stop to avoid shooting out into a
cross street. With all the vegetation on the sides of the path, it
was difficult to tell that one was approaching a roadway, and the path
and roadway were the same color with no sidewalk.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB