Test ride P38,Strada,Corsa

Quoted message said:

I'm new to recumbents and I test rode 3 bikes yesterday.

P38 - I really liked the seat and the handlebars. I thought the
handling was twitchy.

Strada - My shins hit the handlebars, and the guy at the bike shop said
there was no adjustment. I like the euromesh seat and the handling. The
tires looked way to thin and fragile for the kind of riding I want to
do.

Corsa - Hate the recurve seat, I don't like the seat horn. Handling was
good. No problem with the high BB. I didn't like the handle bars as
much as the P38 but maybe if I adjusted them I'd like them better. The
handlebars were pointing back horizontally compared to the P38 which
was pointing down.

I want something I can ride thru parking lots and sidewalks, something
that can handle bumpy conditions. I'm not really interested in going
fast. So far I'm leaning towards a Giro 20 with wider tires (65psi?)
and a euromesh seat. Does that sound like a good choice?

For only a few hundred more dollars than the "stick bikes" and
considerably less than the P-38, you could get a bike with full
suspension, such as the Grasshopper [1].

A much less expensive solution would be a RANS Rocket [2] with Schwalbe
"Big Apple" [3] tires. The ride will not be as comfortable as a fully
suspended bicycle, but still acceptable over most surfaces.

If speed is not really a concern, a more upright seating position is
helpful for low speed balance, and make stopping and starting easier. A
fully suspended CLWB bike, such as the HP Velotechnik Spirit [4] can
work well in these situations.

Try riding bikes with "T" bars before purchasing. They do not have the
interference issues of "C" bars, weigh less, make the bike easier to
walk, store and transport in a motor vehicle, and are much more
pleasant to look at from the rider's perspective.

[1] <http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/ghp/index_e.html>.
[2] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Rocket.htm>.
[3] <http://schwalbetires.com/node/61/ok>.
[4] <http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/spirit/index_e.html>.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Post Free or Die!

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

For only a few hundred more dollars than the "stick bikes" and
considerably less than the P-38, you could get a bike with full
suspension, such as the Grasshopper [1].

A much less expensive solution would be a RANS Rocket [2] with Schwalbe
"Big Apple" [3] tires. The ride will not be as comfortable as a fully
suspended bicycle, but still acceptable over most surfaces.

I can't handle the RANS seat because of the nose. Do they make a flat
seat? I'd seriously consider it if they do.

Quoted message said:

If speed is not really a concern, a more upright seating position is
helpful for low speed balance, and make stopping and starting easier. A
fully suspended CLWB bike, such as the HP Velotechnik Spirit [4] can
work well in these situations.

I want a bike that will fit in the back of my small pickup. I tried a
Bacchetta Cafe with a wheelbase of 57" and it was slightly too big. I
probably need a wheelbase of 50" or less.

Quoted message said:

Try riding bikes with "T" bars before purchasing. They do not have the
interference issues of "C" bars, weigh less, make the bike easier to
walk, store and transport in a motor vehicle, and are much more
pleasant to look at from the rider's perspective.

I think the Cafe had T bars and I liked them.

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 27 Aug 2006 07:21:52 -0700

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Corsa - Hate the recurve seat, I don't like the seat horn. Handling was
good. No problem with the high BB. I didn't like the handle bars as
much as the P38 but maybe if I adjusted them I'd like them better. The
handlebars were pointing back horizontally compared to the P38 which
was pointing down.

You can get the Corsa with a euromesh seat, and the tweener bars
adjust easily enough.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone said:

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 27 Aug 2006 07:21:52 -0700

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Corsa - Hate the recurve seat, I don't like the seat horn. Handling was
good. No problem with the high BB. I didn't like the handle bars as
much as the P38 but maybe if I adjusted them I'd like them better. The
handlebars were pointing back horizontally compared to the P38 which
was pointing down.

You can get the Corsa with a euromesh seat, and the tweener bars
adjust easily enough.

This is an opinion and the tastes of others may vary - the way to
improve the "tweener" bars is to convert them into "T" bars with a
pipe cutter and add adjustability with a riser hinge, e.g.
<http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=GS>.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Post Free or Die!

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 27 Aug 2006 20:15:55 -0700

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

This is an opinion and the tastes of others may vary - the way to
improve the "tweener" bars is to convert them into "T" bars with a
pipe cutter and add adjustability with a riser hinge, e.g.

heh.

Me, I don't like T bars at all, I find tweeners better than both T and
USS - must more relaxed than T, and less twitchy than USS.

If you want to convert tweener to T, don't hacksaw them, too difficult
to switch back when you realise you've made a mistake...

Zebee

[email hidden said:

"]I'm new to recumbents and I test rode 3 bikes yesterday.

Good start. We rode over 20 models, driving over 1,000 miles to do so. Expensive in terms of gas, cheap in terms of getting the right bikes, the first time, and loads of fun. I'd avoid the shop that told you a Strada stem was not adjustable, or find the owner and see if he/she is that ignorant.

Quoted post said:

P38 - I really liked the seat and the handlebars. I thought the
handling was twitchy.?

Same experience. I have read many places that you need to have a case of tinkeritous to own a P-38, endless adjusting to get it right. That said, when I set up my Strada I started with the bars more vertical, similar to the P-38 angle. As experience built I changed to a much more horizontal angle. I don't understand how you could like that seat and hate the Recurve, but it's not my butt.😄

Quoted post said:

Strada - My shins hit the handlebars, and the guy at the bike shop said there was no adjustment. I like the euromesh seat and the handling. The
tires looked way to thin and fragile for the kind of riding I want to
do.?

Unless they have replaced the stem that comes with the bike, the fore and aft adjustment is one screw at the pivot, very easy. The angle of the bars is also adjustable. If you live in the potholes probably should look for something with more variables on tires than an '06 Strada. It's pretty specialized now, a road bike.

Quoted post said:

Corsa - Hate the recurve seat, I don't like the seat horn. Handling was good. No problem with the high BB. I didn't like the handle bars as
much as the P38 but maybe if I adjusted them I'd like them better. The
handlebars were pointing back horizontally compared to the P38 which
was pointing down.?

You can easily adjust the handlebars from straight down to straight up and anything in between.

Quoted post said:

I want something I can ride thru parking lots and sidewalks, something that can handle bumpy conditions. I'm not really interested in going
fast. So far I'm leaning towards a Giro 20 with wider tires (65psi?)
and a euromesh seat. Does that sound like a good choice?

Since the high BB doesn't bother you, check out the Giro 26. It's a very good bike with lots of choices on tire/rim sizes.

For myself, the heavy, clunky suspended bikes I rode felt like driving a 50's model Chevy. The Strada feels like a sports car. To each his own. I don't mind the rough ride, am so laid back now (on my comfy Recurve seat) that the mesh absorbs most of the rough - that said, I avoid washboard roads because they slow me down. If that was the norm for surfaces around here I'd darn sure have a fully suspended something - but it would not be one of the suspended bikes I test rode.

Bars - social and bicycle - are a matter of choice. I like the tweeners, the T bars I tried massively contributed to twitchy (the tiller effect on some bikes) and I find the "praying hamster" position postively hilarious. I do not voice any of this humor, am far too happy to have someone on a bent to ride with and IMO one of the attractions of the bent world is the variety of models and geometries to choose from. If you like riding that way, great, you are out on a bike, not turning to mush in front of the well-named idiot box.

A "not so obvious at first ride" comment on bar position/type: I would have to wear my bifocals to ride if the bars were up close or I would not be able to read the computer. That would mean my head would be craned forward to see the road over the reading portion. I don't ride bent to find a new source of neck pain. With the tweener bars I can read everything I need to, wear single vision and my neck is happy.

Best of luck, happy 'bent hunting.😄

Charlie

Hull 697 said:

...

Quoted message said:

P38 - I really liked the seat and the handlebars. I thought the
handling was twitchy.?Same experience. I have read many places that you need to have a case of

tinkeritous to own a P-38, endless adjusting to get it right...

I rode a metric century on a borrowed large P-38 with an XL F-40 boom.
The boom would not go in far enough for me, so I temporarily attached a
Therm-a-Rest pad to the seat back with an ace bandage. It actually
worked fine. The main concern was remembering NOT to do low speed turns
to the right, as this applied the front brake (boom to brake
interference).

Quoted message said:

Bars - social and bicycle - are a matter of choice. I like the
tweeners, the T bars I tried massively contributed to twitchy (the
tiller effect on some bikes) and I find the "praying hamster" position
postively hilarious. I do not voice any of this humor, am far too happy
to have someone on a bent to ride with and IMO one of the attractions of
the bent world is the variety of models and geometries to choose from.
If you like riding that way, great, you are out on a bike, not turning
to mush in front of the well-named idiot box....

Greater "tiller" makes low speed handling more difficult, but improves
directional stability at speed.

The first time I saw the "tweener" bars on a Bacchetta, I had a "what
the Hell?" reaction. They look like something off an oversize beach
cruiser. The aerodynamics and handling of "tweener" bars (positive or
negative) in not of consequence - I am not looking at something like
that when riding.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Post Free or Die!

Zebee Johnstone said:

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 27 Aug 2006 20:15:55 -0700

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

This is an opinion and the tastes of others may vary - the way to
improve the "tweener" bars is to convert them into "T" bars with a
pipe cutter and add adjustability with a riser hinge, e.g.

heh.

Me, I don't like T bars at all, I find tweeners better than both T and
USS - must more relaxed than T, and less twitchy than USS.

If you want to convert tweener to T, don't hacksaw them, too difficult
to switch back when you realise you've made a mistake...

I have cut-down "T" handlebars on Sunset 0003, and I have no intention
of changing to anything else (Thank you, Earl).

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Post Free or Die!

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Hull 697 said:

...

Quoted message said:

P38 - I really liked the seat and the handlebars. I thought the
handling was twitchy.?Same experience. I have read many places that you need to have a case of

tinkeritous to own a P-38, endless adjusting to get it right...

I rode a metric century on a borrowed large P-38 with an XL F-40 boom.
The boom would not go in far enough for me, so I temporarily attached a
Therm-a-Rest pad to the seat back with an ace bandage. It actually
worked fine. The main concern was remembering NOT to do low speed turns
to the right, as this applied the front brake (boom to brake
interference).

A moving boom does not seem like a good idea to me. Doesn't that screw
up the chain length? Plus it seems like you are creating a weak spot in
a critical area.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm new to recumbents and I test rode 3 bikes yesterday.

P38 - I really liked the seat and the handlebars. I thought the
handling was twitchy.

Strada - My shins hit the handlebars, and the guy at the bike shop said
there was no adjustment. I like the euromesh seat and the handling. The
tires looked way to thin and fragile for the kind of riding I want to
do.

Corsa - Hate the recurve seat, I don't like the seat horn. Handling was
good. No problem with the high BB. I didn't like the handle bars as
much as the P38 but maybe if I adjusted them I'd like them better. The
handlebars were pointing back horizontally compared to the P38 which
was pointing down.

I want something I can ride thru parking lots and sidewalks, something
that can handle bumpy conditions. I'm not really interested in going
fast. So far I'm leaning towards a Giro 20 with wider tires (65psi?)
and a euromesh seat. Does that sound like a good choice?

I don't like the monotube bikes. From an aesthetic perspective I think they
are just ugly. From a mechanical perspective, a triangulated design makes
more sense. Try a RANS VRex. It ia a OSS SWB and most likely will fit in
your truck. Triangulated frame means no flex. Possible to sit upright or
laid back. Room for chubby tires for shock absorption and lotsa choices
with handlebar configuration. Or put a chock fork or suspension hub on it.
I have a Pantour hub now and really like it a lot. Downside - The stock
VRex is geared too high - for somewhere without hills. But that issue is
endemic to many bents. You can regear the bike for cheap, or have the
dealer do it as part of the sale.
Regards
Jon Shinefeld
PhilaPA

Jon Shinefeld said:

I don't like the monotube bikes. From an aesthetic perspective I think they
are just ugly. From a mechanical perspective, a triangulated design makes
more sense....

Agreed, with the exception of "Z" frame lowracers, where there is not
space between the seat and the ground for a truss.

The real benefit of a monotube "stick" bike is that manufacturing costs
are significantly decreased by eliminating several tube cutting,
mitering and welding operations.

[quote="Quoted message"]Try a RANS VRex. It ia a OSS SWB and most likely will fit in
your truck. Triangulated frame means no flex. Possible to sit upright or
laid back. Room for chubby tires for shock absorption and lotsa choices
with handlebar configuration. Or put a [s]hock fork or suspension hub on it.
I have a Pantour hub now and really like it a lot. Downside - The stock
VRex is geared too high - for somewhere without hills. But that issue is
endemic to many bents. You can regear the bike for cheap, or have the
dealer do it as part of the sale.[/quote]

The V-Rex is a very good "all-around" bike. However, if one is visiting
a RANS dealer, one should test ride the Rocket also. I visited a RANS
dealer seriously considering purchasing a V-Rex, and ended up bringing
a Rocket home instead because I preferred the handling of the Rocket.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Post Free or Die!

Quoted message said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Hull 697 said:

...
> P38 - I really liked the seat and the handlebars. I thought the
> handling was twitchy.?Same experience. I have read many places that you need to have a case of
tinkeritous to own a P-38, endless adjusting to get it right...

I rode a metric century on a borrowed large P-38 with an XL F-40 boom.
The boom would not go in far enough for me, so I temporarily attached a
Therm-a-Rest pad to the seat back with an ace bandage. It actually
worked fine. The main concern was remembering NOT to do low speed turns
to the right, as this applied the front brake (boom to brake
interference).

A moving boom does not seem like a good idea to me. Doesn't that screw
up the chain length? Plus it seems like you are creating a weak spot in
a critical area.

Unless one adds cost, weight and drivetrain friction by using an extra
chain tensioner [1], all but minor boom adjustments required
lengthening or shortening the chain. Therefore, bikes with adjustable
booms are best suited for use by one rider (and a pain for dealers
offering test rides). In addition, proper tensioning [2] creates a
moment in the fastening bolts, which are usually made of high-strength,
low-ductility steel. The bolts need to be replaced after a couple of
adjustments, or there will be significant risk of breaking a bolt,
requiring removal by drilling and tapping.

The advantage of a fixed seat and movable boom is that the center of
gravity of the bike will remain relatively unchanged for riders of
different leg length.

[1] Such as was done on several SWB bikes from ATP Vision during their
final years of production.
[2] During a test ride of a Vision R-40 SWB, the boom rotated
approximately 90 degrees when I started pedaling due to insufficient
retaining bolt tension.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Post Free or Die!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Strada - My shins hit the handlebars, and the guy at the bike shop said
there was no adjustment. I like the euromesh seat and the handling. The
tires looked way to thin and fragile for the kind of riding I want to
do.

Sounds like the guy at the bike shop doesn't know what he's talking
about.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Corsa - Hate the recurve seat, I don't like the seat horn. Handling was
good. No problem with the high BB. I didn't like the handle bars as
much as the P38 but maybe if I adjusted them I'd like them better. The
handlebars were pointing back horizontally compared to the P38 which
was pointing down.

Recurve on a Corsa? The current Corsa comes with the EuroMesh
standard, the Strada with the Recurve standard. Maybe you've mixed the
two of them up (the current Corsa also has the fixed angle steerer
while the Strada has a tilt stem).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I want something I can ride thru parking lots and sidewalks, something
that can handle bumpy conditions. I'm not really interested in going
fast. So far I'm leaning towards a Giro 20 with wider tires (65psi?)
and a euromesh seat. Does that sound like a good choice?

Sounds like a great choice!

Quoted message said:

I don't like the monotube bikes. From an aesthetic perspective I think they
are just ugly.

To each their own. I find many monotube bikes to be simply beautiful,
beautifully simple, especially ones without frame bends that still
manage to get a comfortable position that rides great with minimal
chain noise. Some don't like it, that's fine.

Quoted message said:

From a mechanical perspective, a triangulated design makes
more sense.

How does a triangulated design make "more sense"?

The proof is in the riding and the building. If an easier/cheaper to
manufacture monotube frame can perform well in terms of speed, comfort,
long-term durability (and not just well, but better than some
triangulated designs as seems to be the case for me, perhaps with the
exception of durability since the current, popular monotubes are still
relatively young so that's an unknown), then they make "more sense".

Quoted message said:

Triangulated frame means no flex.

I assume you're looking to this as a benefit in terms of power
transmission efficiency. My monotube bike (a Strada) does not lack one
iota in that respect as far as I can tell.

I'm willing to be convinced that my Strada is robbing me of efficiency
due to frame flex. I'd love to own a bike that rides as well and as
comfortably that makes even better use of whatever wattage I can
generate (no fairings and body socks though, please--well, maybe a
tailbox with usable storage would be good).

Victor Kan said:

Recurve on a Corsa? The current Corsa comes with the EuroMesh
standard, the Strada with the Recurve standard. Maybe you've mixed the
two of them up (the current Corsa also has the fixed angle steerer
while the Strada has a tilt stem).

Oops! Good catch. I mixed them up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I want something I can ride thru parking lots and sidewalks, something
that can handle bumpy conditions. I'm not really interested in going
fast. So far I'm leaning towards a Giro 20 with wider tires (65psi?)
and a euromesh seat. Does that sound like a good choice?

Sounds like a great choice!

My only remaining question is whether I will want to ride in too much
of a vertical position for the euromesh seat. I'm going to try to test
ride the Corsa one more time with the seat in the most vertical
position.

Quoted message said:

To each their own. I find many monotube bikes to be simply beautiful,
beautifully simple, especially ones without frame bends that still
manage to get a comfortable position that rides great with minimal
chain noise.

Same here. It seems like the most logical design.

Jon S. said:

I don't like the monotube bikes. From an aesthetic perspective I think they
are just ugly. From a mechanical perspective, a triangulated design makes
more sense. Try a RANS VRex. It ia a OSS SWB and most likely will fit in
your truck. Triangulated frame means no flex. Possible to sit upright or
laid back. Room for chubby tires for shock absorption and lotsa choices
with handlebar configuration. Or put a chock fork or suspension hub on it.
I have a Pantour hub now and really like it a lot. Downside - The stock
VRex is geared too high - for somewhere without hills. But that issue is
endemic to many bents. You can regear the bike for cheap, or have the
dealer do it as part of the sale.

Are there any seat options? The RANS seat in uncomfortable for me
because of the nose. Do they make a flat seat?

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 30 Aug 2006 07:03:24 -0700

Quoted message said:

My only remaining question is whether I will want to ride in too much
of a vertical position for the euromesh seat. I'm going to try to test
ride the Corsa one more time with the seat in the most vertical
position.

Not sure how upright the euromesh gets. I have dropped the recurve on
my Giro 20 back a notch or two as I got more comfortable with the
thing but I don't know I'd want it much more back because most of my
riding is in traffic.

Zebee

Victor Kan said:

...

How does a triangulated design make "more sense"?

Calculate the moment of inertia for a monotube and a properly designed
truss of the same weight, keeping in mind an adequate factor of safety
against buckling, and the answer becomes clear. A truss puts the frame
material where it does the most good - primarily loaded in tension and
compression. With a monotube, there is greater "wasted" material near
the neutral axis of bending.

Quoted message said:

The proof is in the riding and the building. If an easier/cheaper to
manufacture monotube frame can perform well in terms of speed, comfort,
long-term durability (and not just well, but better than some
triangulated designs as seems to be the case for me, perhaps with the
exception of durability since the current, popular monotubes are still
relatively young so that's an unknown), then they make "more sense"....

Don't try to pull a single wheel trailer with most monotube bicycles.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Post Free or Die!

Quoted message said:

Are there any seat options? The RANS seat in uncomfortable for me
because of the nose. Do they make a flat seat?

Sorry - I was out of touch a few days.

Here are a couple of links to the RANS site:
http://www.ransbikes.com/ITRSeat.htm Maximizing Recumbent Seat Comfort

http://www.ransbikes.com/ITRHotrod.htm Making a Hot Rod VRex - includes a
carbon seat pan option

http://www.ransbikes.com/ITRseating%20options-27.htm The M5 option works on
the VRex (I am also interested in this option)

My best suggestion re the RANS seat is to start with a completely stock bike
and a fairly upright position that is probably best for a newish recumbent
rider since it most closely mimics riding a diamond frame bike, and
gradually recline the seat. As you begin to lean back, the seat horn
becomes less significant and soon is no longer an issue. As you gather bent
experience you can recline more and more. Eventually, there is a trade off
between aero benefit - greatest with the most reclined position, and the
best power transfer position. Here's what I mean: We require at least 45
degrees of bend at the waist to engage the powerful gluteal muscles for hip
extension in the pedalling action. Less than about 45 degrees of flex and
there is incrementally less gluteal involvement, forcing you to rely on
quadriceps more and more. Thighs are strong, but not as strong as quads
plus glutes. And, this is when some recumbists run into knee problems from
pressing themselves back against the seat to try to deliver power to the
pedals. You will find your sweet spot eventually. Also, your musculature
will adapt to the recumbent - essentially, the inner thigh muscles need time
to develop.

RE why I prefer a trussed frame: Tom described moment arms and material
distribution. Remember Visions? They had significant design problems with
their tandems as chainstays separated from the monotubes at the point of
greatest unrelieved stresses. As the monotube flexed under the weight and
torque of 2 riders, some of their frames failed at the most vulnerable point
which also happens to be the point of greatest torque transfer. Granted, a
dramatic case, but illustrative. I am certain that the Bacchetta designers
have calculated material strength and more importantly, tube diameter to
provide sufficient reinforcement for anticipated stresses, but it would
still bug me. They sell a lot of bikes to informed cyclists though and I
have not heard of frame failures. I would imaging that monotube advantages
include cheaper manufacturing costs and simpler chainlines. And some folks
do like the way they look. And SWB Bacchetta wheelbases are about 4 inches
longer than SWB RANS wheelbases, leading to a potentially smoother and more
stable ride at speed.

Bottom line - we all have our preferences and they are all good. .

I'm leaving in the morning for a week away and will pick up this thread when
I return - if there is anything to pick up.
Jon Shinefeld
PhilaPA

Jon S. said:

My best suggestion re the RANS seat is to start with a completely stock bike
and a fairly upright position that is probably best for a newish recumbent
rider since it most closely mimics riding a diamond frame bike, and
gradually recline the seat. As you begin to lean back, the seat horn
becomes less significant and soon is no longer an issue. As you gather bent
experience you can recline more and more. Eventually, there is a trade off
between aero benefit - greatest with the most reclined position, and the
best power transfer position. Here's what I mean: We require at least 45
degrees of bend at the waist to engage the powerful gluteal muscles for hip
extension in the pedalling action. Less than about 45 degrees of flex and
there is incrementally less gluteal involvement, forcing you to rely on
quadriceps more and more. Thighs are strong, but not as strong as quads
plus glutes. And, this is when some recumbists run into knee problems from
pressing themselves back against the seat to try to deliver power to the
pedals. You will find your sweet spot eventually. Also, your musculature
will adapt to the recumbent - essentially, the inner thigh muscles need time
to develop.

That's interesting stuff. Another reason I'd like to have the seat more
vertical is that I have very tight hamstrings and that helps stretch
them. I agree that the more you lean back the less pressure you get
from the horn but I would still have to modify the RANS seat. I would
either have shave off some foam or somehow remove the plastic
underneath.

I'm still leaning towards the Giro 20 but a VRex is a close 2nd. Can
you put slightly wider tires on the VRex? The specs say 100psi but I
was thinking about 65psi. I want something that can handle bumps, like
riding off a curb for example. One time I borrowed my friend's Colnago
and I crumpled the front rim when I rode off a curb. Luckily the rims
had a lifetime warranty!