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Terra Nova Laserlite

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
29 August 2005
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5 September 2005
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Chris Naylor
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  1. Just spent some pennies on a new tent for myself as my stop-gap measure
    of a tent decided to pop it's cloggs last time I used it (see TR: Ever
    have one of those trips for details!!!). Bought myself a Laserlite as I
    have heard a lot of good things about them as well as borrowing my mates
    for a few weeks prior to buying my PA1 when I needed onwe when I did the
    Cleveland way earlier in the year.

    I've seen on numerous reviews of the tent that a whole tent footprint is
    available for the tent (ie sleeping area and porch). So far I have been
    unable to find a retailer for said product. Field and trek (where I got
    the tent from) only seem to do the inner footprint and I can't find
    anyone who does the whole foorprint.

    Anyone have one/know where I can get one?

    Cheers
    --
    Chris Naylor
    Remove your trousers to reply
    http://chrisnaylor9123.fotopic.net
    http://www.blogger.com/profile/11485808

    "Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our
    children."- Governor George W. Bush

  2. Chris Naylor said:

    Just spent some pennies on a new tent for myself as my stop-gap measure
    of a tent decided to pop it's cloggs last time I used it (see TR: Ever
    have one of those trips for details!!!). Bought myself a Laserlite as I
    have heard a lot of good things about them as well as borrowing my mates
    for a few weeks prior to buying my PA1 when I needed onwe when I did the
    Cleveland way earlier in the year.

    I've seen on numerous reviews of the tent that a whole tent footprint is
    available for the tent (ie sleeping area and porch). So far I have been
    unable to find a retailer for said product. Field and trek (where I got
    the tent from) only seem to do the inner footprint and I can't find
    anyone who does the whole foorprint.

    Anyone have one/know where I can get one?

    Cheers

    Couldn't see it listed on their website, but you could try getting in
    touch with Terra Nova directly as they do sell stuff directly themselves
    (www.terra-nova.co.uk, email 'tents' at terra-...)

  3. Chris Naylor said:

    Just spent some pennies on a new tent for myself as my stop-gap measure
    of a tent decided to pop it's cloggs last time I used it (see TR: Ever
    have one of those trips for details!!!). Bought myself a Laserlite as I

    <snip>

    Having just bought and briefly used one of these myself, I thought I'd
    give my 2p worth.

    Pegs:
    First of all, the brass-tipped carbon fibre pegs - I didn't take them,
    so I can't really comment except to say they are very very light. (I was
    walking part of the GR10 and not having been there before took some
    proper pegs in case the ground was hard and stony). I expect they'd
    work well on firm grassy soil, but the lack of hook on top makes me
    think that guys would easily pop off with enough peg movement.

    Material:
    Groundsheet tougher than I was expecting - I was expecting this to have
    been somewhere they would have gotten their weight loss from but it
    seems ok. Flysheet was like tissue paper on my first touch though, but
    it too seems to do the job fine. There is no separate flyscreen for the
    door - the bottom half is made of normal tent inner material, top half
    mesh. There are mesh vents low down at head and foot ends with velcro'd
    on covers. I'd have liked it if there was some kind of vent on the fly
    near the top of the door (like I think the Atko has) but there ain't.

    Pitching:
    First twice I used it, there were no problems pitching (inner + fly
    together, as it was when I got it) - peg it out, guy it out, tweak the
    tweakable bits and the outer was as taut as it looks in Terra Nova's
    pictures. This was on good flat ground.

    Second two times I pitched it were not so easy as I'd detached the inner
    so I could dry the fly separately. The bit that got me was the riser
    poles at either end - one end fits into the bottom of the inner, the
    other part a little way up the inside of the fly. I found these
    particularly fiddly to sort out, what with the cord that fastens to
    either end (presumably to prevent these poles popping out) and the
    guying of these little poles. Maybe it was just because I was a bit
    tired and irritable when doing this. You definitely have to get these
    right to get the fly nice and taut, and so away from the inner. Managed
    one end well, other a little saggy on third and fourth pitches (roughish
    ground). I'd hate to have done this part in adverse conditions, though
    I expect this will come a lot easier with practice.

    The way these poles fit also means you can't pitch properly with the fly
    only, which I thought would be a nice feature. You could still pitch
    it, but lose the height at both ends from the little poles, and have a
    saggy fly. (Maybe, if not too windy, the bottom of the riser poles
    could be jammed into the ground a little?).

    I was annoyed also by the lack of something to fasten back the opened
    door, until on my third pitching when I spotted it - a small loop on the
    inner. I was more used to rolling it outside somewhere.

    Stability:
    Felt solid, but then I didn't have any wind to put up with (other than
    my own ;-).

    De-pitching:
    Easy, but I got a wet back from the condensation dripping as I undid the
    fasteners holding the inner. Also, as the door was unfastened during
    depitching this flapped onto my back a few times.

    Packing the tent away:
    The fly tends to pop out like a bubblegum bubble when rolling the tent
    up. And though the tent squishes easy once in it's bag it relaxes to
    the size of a bigger tent - some compression straps on the bag would
    have been nice (but maybe not worth the extra few grammes for
    lightweight afficionados?)

    Condensation:
    Yes, there was some but I couldn't really say for sure if it was more
    than any other tent.

    Room:
    Plenty. Porch big enough for my sack, boots and stuff, plus room on the
    inside for some stuff at your side. Some room at head/foot end but not
    loads (I'm 5'10''😉. Tall enough for me to sit up in the middle. Not
    sure yet if I'd be happy cooking in the porch, but the inner can be
    unattached from the under-tent tensioning band and probably rolled back
    a little to give more room.

    Overall:
    If I can get the pitching of the ends down pat then I think I'm going to
    like this tent. I'll not get rid of my Pro Action Tiger Paws just yet,
    but stick to using it for back-of-the-motorbike solo camping.

  4. Quoted message said:

    Pegs:
    First of all, the brass-tipped carbon fibre pegs - I didn't take them,
    so I can't really comment except to say they are very very light. (I was
    walking part of the GR10 and not having been there before took some
    proper pegs in case the ground was hard and stony). I expect they'd
    work well on firm grassy soil, but the lack of hook on top makes me
    think that guys would easily pop off with enough peg movement.

    I was sceptical about the lack of a hook, but I've not had a guy line pop
    off yet.

    Quoted message said:

    Pitching:
    First twice I used it, there were no problems pitching (inner + fly
    together, as it was when I got it) - peg it out, guy it out, tweak the
    tweakable bits and the outer was as taut as it looks in Terra Nova's
    pictures. This was on good flat ground.

    Yes, you can get the outer nice and taut, but the inner seems to sag a bit
    too much. There's not much head clearance when lying down.

    Quoted message said:

    Packing the tent away:
    The fly tends to pop out like a bubblegum bubble when rolling the tent
    up. And though the tent squishes easy once in it's bag it relaxes to
    the size of a bigger tent - some compression straps on the bag would
    have been nice (but maybe not worth the extra few grammes for
    lightweight afficionados?)

    Agreed that siliconised nylon is very slippery. But if you fold the fly
    into the inner then roll it up, it seems to work OK.

    Quoted message said:

    Stability:
    Felt solid, but then I didn't have any wind to put up with (other than
    my own ;-).

    Not the most stable in wind. It would be have helped if they'd provided
    guying points in the middle of the tent to keep the main pole from
    distorting.

    Quoted message said:

    Condensation:
    Yes, there was some but I couldn't really say for sure if it was more
    than any other tent.

    Shame there's no way to vent steam when cooking except by opening the door
    all the way up.

    Adrian


  5. Quoted message said:


    Not the most stable in wind. It would be have helped if they'd provided
    guying points in the middle of the tent to keep the main pole from
    distorting.

    Not sure where you mean buy middle - on the pole and running parallel
    with it? Just had a wee look and there are three places on my fly on
    the line of the pole where guys could be possibly attached, though
    really they're for tying the pole cover thing. That's one thing I
    forgot to mention - wasn't comfortable with those guys running from the
    pole cover thing, would have preferred them attached to the fly itself.

  6. This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head not to
    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy (wish it
    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    2) Again, if it's windy (as it was at Derry Lodge for a day or two last
    month), the tent is _very_ noisy - even if it's on level ground and well
    pitched. It was like trying to sleep in a crisp bag!

    JIm Ford

  7. [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head not to
    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy (wish it
    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    But everyone else would be complaining about the inner getting wet
    during pitching/striking...

    Quoted message said:

    2) Again, if it's windy (as it was at Derry Lodge for a day or two last
    month), the tent is _very_ noisy - even if it's on level ground and well
    pitched. It was like trying to sleep in a crisp bag!


    Isn't that the same problem with any tent though? Even my bomb-proof 5-
    season tents (they pitch inner first: it's one of my gripes with them
    <g>😉 sound like that in wind or driving rain. Most unnerving, even
    though they're obviously still standing when I dare to peep out through
    my fingers to see if I can see the weather.

    --
    To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
    where common sense dictates.

  8. In message <[email hidden]>

    Fran said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head not to
    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy (wish it
    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    But everyone else would be complaining about the inner getting wet
    during pitching/striking...

    Yep, I think you're probably right. Ideally what is needed is a tent
    that is superlight and easy to transport and erect, but magically
    transforms itself into any one of a number of different configurations
    depending on the weather and camp site configuration. All other tents
    are a compromise which is why I have more than one tent, and choose
    different tents for different trips.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2) Again, if it's windy (as it was at Derry Lodge for a day or two
    last month), the tent is _very_ noisy - even if it's on level
    ground and well pitched. It was like trying to sleep in a crisp
    bag!


    Isn't that the same problem with any tent though? Even my bomb-proof 5-
    season tents (they pitch inner first: it's one of my gripes with them
    <g>😉 sound like that in wind or driving rain. Most unnerving, even
    though they're obviously still standing when I dare to peep out through
    my fingers to see if I can see the weather.

    I would disagree. In windy conditions my Quasar is much quieter than my
    Nallo 2 GT. Indeed the Nallo can be quite noisy in even a light
    breeze where the Quasar is hardly flapping at all. One is a geodesic
    with heavyweight flysheet material and the other a tunnel with
    lightweight flysheet. On the down side, the Quasar is twice the weight
    of the Nallo.

    The Quasar is however getting a little too old and frail and thus needs
    replacing. I'm seriously considering a Hilleberg Saivo or Tarra.

    Mike
    --
    o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
    <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
    "> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
    ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

  9. [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    In message <[email hidden]>

    Fran said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head not to
    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy (wish it
    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    But everyone else would be complaining about the inner getting wet
    during pitching/striking...

    Yep, I think you're probably right. Ideally what is needed is a tent
    that is superlight and easy to transport and erect, but magically
    transforms itself into any one of a number of different configurations
    depending on the weather and camp site configuration. All other tents
    are a compromise which is why I have more than one tent, and choose
    different tents for different trips.

    You're in good company. We counted up the tents here recently and
    realised that we have nine! Three are identical, it is true, and a
    fourth serves the same purpose (year-round bomb-proof 2-man tents);
    however we also have a tent for the whole family in summer (which nearly
    collapsed last week); there's the 30+ yr old canvas 'Blue Beastie' that
    we acquired from Bill (could do with reproofing but it's pretty nearly
    bombproof) and of course the ubiquitous Argos Pro-Action 1 man tent :-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2) Again, if it's windy (as it was at Derry Lodge for a day or two
    last month), the tent is _very_ noisy - even if it's on level
    ground and well pitched. It was like trying to sleep in a crisp
    bag!


    Isn't that the same problem with any tent though? Even my bomb-proof 5-
    season tents (they pitch inner first: it's one of my gripes with them
    <g>😉 sound like that in wind or driving rain. Most unnerving, even
    though they're obviously still standing when I dare to peep out through
    my fingers to see if I can see the weather.

    I would disagree. In windy conditions my Quasar is much quieter than my
    Nallo 2 GT. Indeed the Nallo can be quite noisy in even a light
    breeze where the Quasar is hardly flapping at all. One is a geodesic
    with heavyweight flysheet material and the other a tunnel with
    lightweight flysheet. On the down side, the Quasar is twice the weight
    of the Nallo.

    I may have been a little unfair on my bomb-shelters: the only time I've
    ever experienced seriously bad weather in one was in Snowdonia during
    the October storms one year. Being in the tent was extremely unnerving;
    seeing the damage to trees and walls when we finally plucked up courage
    to peep out of the door was even more so.
    --
    To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
    where common sense dictates.

  10. "Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head


    not to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy


    (wish it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    Quoted message said:

    But everyone else would be complaining about the inner getting wet
    during pitching/striking...

    The benefits of inner first pitching giving you a better living space
    you get every time. You have to wait a long time for rain heavy enough
    and persistent enough to make the benefits of outer first pitching seem
    important. I'm still waiting anyway. In general I think most people
    have got overly pessimistic ideas about how much it actually rains in
    this country.

  11. Fran said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head not to
    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy (wish it
    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    But everyone else would be complaining about the inner getting wet
    during pitching/striking...

    Quoted message said:

    2) Again, if it's windy (as it was at Derry Lodge for a day or two last
    month), the tent is _very_ noisy - even if it's on level ground and well
    pitched. It was like trying to sleep in a crisp bag!

    Isn't that the same problem with any tent though? Even my bomb-proof 5-
    season tents (they pitch inner first: it's one of my gripes with them
    <g>😉 sound like that in wind or driving rain. Most unnerving, even
    though they're obviously still standing when I dare to peep out through
    my fingers to see if I can see the weather.


    No noise from my Macpac Microlight, which can be pitched as one. All
    reports of Laserlites seem to major on the noise - and the condensation.

    druidh

  12. druidh said:
    Fran said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head not
    to touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy
    (wish it was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    But everyone else would be complaining about the inner getting wet
    during pitching/striking...

    Quoted message said:

    2) Again, if it's windy (as it was at Derry Lodge for a day or two
    last month), the tent is _very_ noisy - even if it's on level ground
    and well pitched. It was like trying to sleep in a crisp bag!

    Isn't that the same problem with any tent though? Even my bomb-proof 5-
    season tents (they pitch inner first: it's one of my gripes with them
    <g>😉 sound like that in wind or driving rain. Most unnerving, even
    though they're obviously still standing when I dare to peep out
    through my fingers to see if I can see the weather.


    No noise from my Macpac Microlight, which can be pitched as one. All
    reports of Laserlites seem to major on the noise - and the condensation.

    druidh

    I'll be taking my LaserLite to Scotland later this month for a long
    weekend, so no doubt then I'll get a better idea on stability in wind
    and condensation. As for noise, I always use earplugs (and a wee
    blindfold thing I got off the sleeper) for a good nights sleep anyway.

    One of the other guys going will likely be taking his Argos 1 man tent,
    so an ideal opportunity for a head to head showdown... any ideas how to
    make a condensation-ometer? :-)

  13. Jim Ford said:

    This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:

    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head not to
    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy (wish it
    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    A popular misconception about fly-first or all-together pitching is that
    it is necessarily flappier than inner-first. Take a look at a Hilleberg
    Tarra or Saivo and you'll see it ain't so.

    The reason the Laserlite is a bit flappy isn't specifically because it
    doesn't pitch inner first, but because it is designed to be as light as
    reasonably possible and this in turn means taking liberties with
    structural rigidity. If it was a freeetsanding design (as inner-first
    usually are) then it would weigh a lot more, completely undermining the
    primary design point of the tent!

    Quoted message said:

    2) Again, if it's windy (as it was at Derry Lodge for a day or two last
    month), the tent is _very_ noisy - even if it's on level ground and well
    pitched. It was like trying to sleep in a crisp bag!

    This is another occupational hazard of extreme light weight. If you
    have a structure that won't suffer this way then it will weigh
    substantially more. And Terra Nova have a whole range of quieter but
    heavier tents to choose from: you have to choose the right one for the
    particular job in hand, deciding whether you want a quiet spot for a kip
    in a blow or a lighter weight on your back the next day...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  14. "Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Jim Ford said:

    This is my second year with my Laserlite. Two gripes:
    1) I'm 6' 4" and whilst there's enough length for my feet or head


    not to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    touch the ends, the inner flaps in my face if it's at all windy


    (wish it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was an inner-first design, then it would be a tighter pitch)!

    Quoted message said:

    A popular misconception about fly-first or all-together pitching is


    that

    Quoted message said:

    it is necessarily flappier than inner-first. Take a look at a


    Hilleberg

    Quoted message said:

    Tarra or Saivo and you'll see it ain't so.

    True of the vast majority though isn't it?

  15. AndyP said:

    True of the vast majority though isn't it?

    But that's because inner-first are (almost always) freestanding and that
    requires a greater degree of structure, which in turn adds weight. The
    fact that they are inner first pitches is irrelevant, it is the
    freestanding that generally leads to less flapping.

    If you could wangle the Laserlite to pitch inner first then it would
    flap just as badly, because the order a tent goes up in makes no real
    difference /of itself/ to its rigidity. If you want a freestanding tent
    then be prepared to pay a weight penalty, whatever order it goes up in.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  16. In message <[email hidden]>

    AndyP said:

    "Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote


    [snip]

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    A popular misconception about fly-first or all-together pitching is
    that it is necessarily flappier than inner-first. Take a look at a
    Hilleberg Tarra or Saivo and you'll see it ain't so.

    True of the vast majority though isn't it?

    The problem is deciding on which tents to include in your sample.

    I've personal experience in owning and thus regularly using only a
    limited number of tents but amongst these personal examples I don't see
    a correlation that you make above.

    My first tent was a cotton ridge tent, a Blacks Atlas, which was a copy
    of the Vango Force 10. Being a heavy cotton ridge tent it didn't flap
    very much in all but very strong winds (used for over 5 years). Then my
    next tent was a Vango Hurricane Beta, which was an inner and outer
    together pitching, tunnel style tent, but with a tension banding system.
    The Hurricane Beta was a very stable tent in high winds which didn't
    flap very much (used for just under 10 years). My next tent was a
    Mountain Quasar, later converted with purchase of a second flysheet into
    a Quasar ETC (used for over 10 years). This is a heavy weight flysheet
    geodesic inner first pitching design, that is very stable in high winds
    if you ignore the regular pole failures that seemed to happen under
    almost any weather conditions.

    For the last three years I've also owned and used a Macpac Stellar which
    is a twin hoop design small lightweight two person tent and a Hilleberg
    Nallo2 GT large but lightweight 2 person tunnel tent with very large
    extended porch. Both of these pitch inner and outer together. The
    Hilleberg is very flappy, the Stellar is not. The Hilleberg is better
    for when you want extra space e.g. to cook inside the porch, the Stellar
    is better for small and more exposed pitches.

    As far as I can see the degrees of flappiness that I have encountered in
    these different tent designs is related more to the type and weight of
    the material and to the area of unsupported material ( which is
    obviously to some extent related to the configuration of poles), rather
    than whether they are pitched inner first or both inner and outer
    together. Out of preference I much prefer the inner and outer together
    pitching, of the Hurricane, the Stellar and the Nallo, compared to the
    inner first pitching of the Atlas and the Quasar.

    --
    o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
    <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
    "> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
    ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

  17. Mike Clark said:

    In message <[email hidden]>

    AndyP said:

    "Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    A popular misconception about fly-first or all-together pitching is
    that it is necessarily flappier than inner-first. Take a look at a
    Hilleberg Tarra or Saivo and you'll see it ain't so.

    True of the vast majority though isn't it?

    The problem is deciding on which tents to include in your sample.

    I've personal experience in owning and thus regularly using only a
    limited number of tents but amongst these personal examples I don't see
    a correlation that you make above.

    My first tent was a cotton ridge tent, a Blacks Atlas, which was a copy
    of the Vango Force 10. Being a heavy cotton ridge tent it didn't flap
    very much in all but very strong winds (used for over 5 years). Then my
    next tent was a Vango Hurricane Beta, which was an inner and outer
    together pitching, tunnel style tent, but with a tension banding system.
    The Hurricane Beta was a very stable tent in high winds which didn't
    flap very much (used for just under 10 years). My next tent was a
    Mountain Quasar, later converted with purchase of a second flysheet into
    a Quasar ETC (used for over 10 years). This is a heavy weight flysheet
    geodesic inner first pitching design, that is very stable in high winds
    if you ignore the regular pole failures that seemed to happen under
    almost any weather conditions.

    For the last three years I've also owned and used a Macpac Stellar which
    is a twin hoop design small lightweight two person tent and a Hilleberg
    Nallo2 GT large but lightweight 2 person tunnel tent with very large
    extended porch. Both of these pitch inner and outer together. The
    Hilleberg is very flappy, the Stellar is not. The Hilleberg is better
    for when you want extra space e.g. to cook inside the porch, the Stellar
    is better for small and more exposed pitches.

    As far as I can see the degrees of flappiness that I have encountered in
    these different tent designs is related more to the type and weight of
    the material and to the area of unsupported material ( which is
    obviously to some extent related to the configuration of poles), rather
    than whether they are pitched inner first or both inner and outer
    together. Out of preference I much prefer the inner and outer together
    pitching, of the Hurricane, the Stellar and the Nallo, compared to the
    inner first pitching of the Atlas and the Quasar.

    The fly material on the Laserlite (and presumably other new lightweight
    tents, like a friends Vaude Lightwing) makes an almost crisp packet
    rustling noise when rolled between the fingers. I can see this might
    make it _seem_ to be flappier by just being noisier...

    But to add some more flappiness observations on specific models:

    My Vango TBS Equinox 250, an inner+outer together tunnel has been in
    some pretty severe winds a couple of times and wasn't especially flappy.
    (Lovely tent by the way, wish now I'd gone for the other Vango one
    that's very similar but half the weight so I could take it more places).

    My old WildCountry Trisar (why oh why can't they make them out of newer
    materials now they seem to be remaking them??) is an inner first and
    isn't flappy either, but maybe it doesn't get the chance to flap cos it
    flexes so much in the wind.

    Flappiest tent I've been in was oddly enough an old cotton Force Ten,
    but that's because one side had half ripped off in a howling snow storm
    on the Ben. Brrrrr!

  18. On 2/9/05 14:50, in article
    [email hidden], "Mike Clark"

    Quoted message said:

    As far as I can see the degrees of flappiness that I have encountered in
    these different tent designs is related more to the type and weight of
    the material and to the area of unsupported material ( which is
    obviously to some extent related to the configuration of poles), rather
    than whether they are pitched inner first or both inner and outer
    together. Out of preference I much prefer the inner and outer together
    pitching, of the Hurricane, the Stellar and the Nallo, compared to the
    inner first pitching of the Atlas and the Quasar.

    I massively prefer all in one pitching. Certainly in our weather or in
    torrential downpours!

    --
    Andy Howell
    Birmingham, UK

    To mail simply put back the dots ...

  19. beaker said:


    The fly material on the Laserlite (and presumably other new lightweight
    tents, like a friends Vaude Lightwing) makes an almost crisp packet
    rustling noise when rolled between the fingers. I can see this might
    make it _seem_ to be flappier by just being noisier...

    I'm a happy Nallo owner. The flappying is not in any way a problem, indeed
    helps the tent in very high winds. You get used to the noise; I rather like
    it now.

    --
    Andy Howell
    Birmingham, UK

    To mail simply put back the dots ...

  20. Andy Howell said:
    beaker said:

    The fly material on the Laserlite (and presumably other new lightweight
    tents, like a friends Vaude Lightwing) makes an almost crisp packet
    rustling noise when rolled between the fingers. I can see this might
    make it _seem_ to be flappier by just being noisier...

    I'm a happy Nallo owner. The flappying is not in any way a problem, indeed
    helps the tent in very high winds. You get used to the noise; I rather like
    it now.

    My Laserlite _is_ noisier than my TNF Tadpole and Pro Action. The inner
    is also _much_ flappier - as I mentioned previously, even when well
    pitched on level ground and the inner ties at each end well adjusted, in
    a wind the inner beats me around the face when I'm lying down!

    Jim Ford

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