Tell us it ain't so !

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html

Still very little information.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news

Frank Drackman said:

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html

Still very little information.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/j
ul25news

The bottom line is we maybe shouldn't be so suspicious when someone goes
from bad to good between races or even seasons, but when someone goes from
awful to phenomenal on consecutive stages, something fishy is going on.

--
Bill Asher

William Asher said:

Frank Drackman said:

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html

Still very little information.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/j
ul25news

The bottom line is we maybe shouldn't be so suspicious when someone goes
from bad to good between races or even seasons, but when someone goes from
awful to phenomenal on consecutive stages, something fishy is going on.

I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.

Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?

Mark J.

Mark said:

I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.

Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?

Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.

It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.

--
Bill Asher

Mark said:

Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?

After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
positive (repeat as necessary) positive?

The big problem here is the increase in status and power for the
Châtenay-Malabry laboratory (they of the tainted testosterone test A
of Landis).
--D-y

William Asher said:

Mark said:

I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.

Quoted message said:

Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?

Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.

It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.

Dumbass -

Goddamm. I hope that it was the blood bag mixup.

Because if it wasn't, it means that professional bike racers are the
stupidest creatures on the face of the planet.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Quoted post said:

On Jul 24, 11:57 am, Mark

Quoted message said:

Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?

After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
positive (repeat as necessary) positive?

The big problem here is the increase in status and power for the
Châtenay-Malabry laboratory (they of the tainted testosterone test A
of Landis).
--D-y

And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
Bill C

Sandy said:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html

Anyone who actually believed Vino was clean is completely delusional.

Doping has long been a fact in amateur and professional cycling (and
most other sports). I witnessed/experienced it first hand back in
1982 when racing as a lowly 2nd year junior amateur in France. My
team as well as all of the others doped. Yes, systematic use of
prohibited products that were prescribed after going for medical
exams. And the coach always had "les pillules" (amphetamines) for
riders suffering from "mal aux jambes", "crise de foie", "mal aux
reins" or whatever else ails riders prior to the start of a race.

I chose to leave competitive cycing and go to college. Unfortunately,
none of my teammates had this option. For most, the choices were
either to try to make a name in cycling by taking whatever was
required or to go back to working on the family farm, working in a
factory, apprentising as a carpenter or tile setter, etc. I've always
had sympathy for the few clean riders who suffer in the pack.

Mark said:

I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.

Davey went to that Third Rate Rag, having been referred from RBR

The Grammar, Spelling and Journalistic Style, not to mention the
ridiculous Translations are Disgraceful

Not to mention that much of their "News" is up to 48 Hours Old

Luckily I only go there occasionally when following a Quoted
URL/Reference

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher
esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

In article <[email hidden]>,

William Asher said:

Mark said:

I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.

Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?

Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.

It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.

I bet all the Astana riders are going to get some extra out-of-competition
testing soon...

--
Mike Iglesias Email: [email hidden]
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069

That was my initial reaction, but I read it again and think that it is a
bit of context. The way I read it now is that Millar is saying that
everyone thought Vino was class-act, etc... Now that he's tested positive,
it goes to show how stinky the whole thing is. ie you can't even trust the
ones you want to trust. ie the poster boy has fallen, so there goes PR
machine.

Millar got it right, me thinks.

[email hidden] wrote in news:1185297147.856389.117380
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
Bill C

Davey Crockett said:

Mark said:

I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.

Davey went to that Third Rate Rag, having been referred from RBR

The Grammar, Spelling and Journalistic Style, not to mention the
ridiculous Translations are Disgraceful

Not to mention that much of their "News" is up to 48 Hours Old

Luckily I only go there occasionally when following a Quoted
URL/Reference

Velonews has more of David (I got caught but your a jackass) Millar here
and they went with a foaming mouth shot of Vino, nice touch!
http://velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12910.0.html

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

Goddamm. I hope that it was the blood bag mixup.

Because if it wasn't, it means that professional bike racers are the
stupidest creatures on the face of the planet.

I doubt they're the stupidest creatures, but in the post-stage confusion,
with multiple languages being spoken, everything being done semi-
secretively and late at night when people are tired, it's likely that
mistakes get made. I would guess that the biggest symbol on the bags is
the blood type, so at least they don't kill anybody.

They had to withdraw the entire team because they're not sure who got
Vinokourov's blood. Perhaps it was Kloden. If so, they can't risk him
winning a stage, or getting on the podium because then he would get tested
and popped too. One guy on a team doping can be seen as a rogue, two
suggests it is a team-wide practice. Hell, they might have mixed up
multiple bags of O- so essentially the entire team is positive for
homologous doping.

I know I should think it's all evil, but I want to see these guys go up
mountains like they are on Katanas. Blood doping seems relatively benign.
Let 'em ride, I wanna see bike racing dammit.

--
Bill Asher

Quoted message said:

After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
positive (repeat as necessary) positive?

If there were a conspiracy, it would be the other way, where positive tests
would be covered up. What possible benefit to anyone is there in bouncing
out a guy who did something inspiring and heroic who is 23rd in the
standings? The French lab doesn't need more publicity. The tour doesn't
get brownie points. Nobody wins in this. Astana messed up and some low-
level assistant misread the labels on some bags.

He will test positive positive positive because he is guilty guilty guilty.
It sucks but that is professional bicycle racing. These guys can't do what
we expect them to do without doping.

--
Bill Asher

Doug Smith said:

Millar got it right, me thinks.

[email hidden] wrote in news:1185297147.856389.117380
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
Bill C

Millar can STFU any time he likes

The sanctimonious [censored] is now Spewing [censored] about Simpson, a
rider he knows Doodley-Wap about, and Dissing him as This-That-The_Other

Davey over the years has always tried to avoid Name-Dropping, but he
feels that he must correct a few misapprehensions about Tom's demise

Firstly the "Put me back on my Bike" bit are absolute Journalistic
[censored]

.. According to the team mechanic, whose name I disremember without
looking it up at the moment (but it was not Harry Hall), his last
words were "Allez, Allez", spoken in French

There has been so much self serving printers ink spilled on this topic
by Journalistic Hacks that one hardly knows what to believe.

But I grew up with Simpson and rode against him regularly in the early
days both on the road in the then illegal BLRC events and on the Old
Fallowfield Track.

Sure he drank a Brandy or two to get the heart rate up - we all did,
and we'd also smoke a cigarette which was supposed to acclimatize us
to the petrol fumes we'd encounter from the vehicles on the course.

And sure he popped a couple of Bennies, but then again, eveybody did
way back when.

A few years after Tom's death I was riding some local/regional event
when in company of Rahael Geminiani, we were misdirected off course.

By the time we realized we were off course we were 15 klicks down the
wrong road. Anyway, when we got back to the roundabout where we had
gone off course, the sag wagon was long gone so we went into the local
bar for a couple of beers and having declined numerous offers to drive
us to the finish, we left our numbers on and decided to ride the 30
klicks. "Screw 'em", said Gem, "Were not quitting. Let them time us
out, 'cause it looks better in the papers!!"

We rode at Tourist pace, and as bikies did in those days we were
bullshitting about bikes, chicks and the fancy cars we'd buy if ever
we had enough money.

Anyway, the topic finally turned to Tommy who Gem knew even better
than I at that time because they'd ridden together on the
Rapha-Geminiani squad. Gem always figured Tom just rode his Heart
Out. It was a scorching hot day and Tom needed a result because he had
no sponsor for the next season and besides the 1967 Paris-Nice, he had
had no results for the last two years.

So there you have it. The heat exhaustion and his refusal to quit when
his body was screaming at him to do so were the cause of Tom's Demise.

Thanks for Reading this Rant

Here's a Classic Piccy for your trouble

http://azurservers.com/rbr/morte_de_simpson.jpg

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

Sandy said:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html

So who's blood did he use? Was it from Borat or the official from
Glorious Country who promised Vino a 10 year contract?

Eric Boyer (Manager Cofidis) - «Je suis totalement écoeuré. J'espère que
Vinokourov n'aura pas la lâcheté de nier, qu'il nous expliquera, qu'il
nous dira qui l'a aidé, qui a participé à cette saloperie, parce qu'il a
pas pu faire ça tout seul. Vinokourov, il nous disait qu'il ne
travaillait avec le Dr Ferrari que pour des plans d'entraînement. Il
nous disait qu'il était courageux, que les Français l'aimaient bien,
qu'il était plus fort que la douleur, il nous disaient que nous Français
on ne savait pas faire, qu'on était des fainéants, on se rend compte que
c'est un gros salopard, qui à travers ces pratiques jette encore une
fois le discrédit sur le cyclisme. C'est un coup dur de plus, j'espère
qu'encore une fois on s'en relèvera. Je ne regrette pas ce que je dis
depuis plusieurs jours, plusieurs mois. Je demande que toute l'équipe
Astana quitte le cyclisme le plus tôt possible.»

Sandy said:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html

William Asher said:

They had to withdraw the entire team because they're not sure who got
Vinokourov's blood.

They didn't pull the team on their own initiative, ASO askede them to
do so. ASO has an interrest in covering it up and avoid destroying the
carier of all the Astana riders and personell. - It's called damage
control.

Anyway, regardless of what happens now Astana is history, they won't
race next year. The cash flow from Kazackstan will stop without an
iconic kazack rider as Vinokurov.
Astana will turn over their licence to UCI, and if they don't do it by
themselves the UCI will make them.

Lets face it, ASO don't really care about doping. What they do care
about is the knowlagde of doping and the bad press it generates
because it affects their revenue. It's a professional sport aka.
buisness.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Brian Lafferty said:

Sandy said:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html

So who's blood did he use?

The inside word is Didi Senft.

Dan