TdF stage 9 summary

Bob Martin said:

Favourites standings :
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 2.18
5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.20
6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 3.25
7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 3.44
8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.54
11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.08
12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.08
13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.31
15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.36
16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.49
19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 5.12
21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 5.16
24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.42
27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.57
29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 6.21
34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 6.26
37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 6.29
52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 8.06
128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 35.04

Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo?
Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and
Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.

--
Firefox Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/

in 470314 20050710 184409 Ewoud Dronkert said:

Bob Martin said:

Favourites standings :
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 2.18
5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.20
6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 3.25
7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 3.44
8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.54
11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.08
12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.08
13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.31
15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.36
16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.49
19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 5.12
21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 5.16
24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.42
27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.57
29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 6.21
34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 6.26
37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 6.29
52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 8.06
128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 35.04

Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo?
Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and
Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.

I knew this list would be contentious! I don't agree about Savoldelli as he's
a major rider and will be DSC's leader if LA falls off his bike. Yes, Cioni and
Cancellara look out of place, but it'll be interesting to see how they recover.
I had Mayo in the list in his previous races but he always disappointed.
I'll add Sastre and Menchov.
Any more?

Bob Martin said:

Changes in stage 9 compared to stage 8

Biggest gainers by position :
Biggest losers by position :
etc.

Thanks Bob! Interesting way to look at the race...

Bob Martin said:

Biggest gainers by time :
+1:00 Jens Voigt

I don't understand. Voight gained 3:00 plus 18 bonus seconds over the
previous day's leader.

--
Tony Rall

Tony Rall said:

Bob Martin said:

Biggest gainers by time :
+1:00 Jens Voigt

I don't understand. Voight gained 3:00 plus 18 bonus seconds over the
previous day's leader.

Voigt was at 1:00 to the leader, and now is at 0:00 to the
leader. By convention, GC times are referenced to the leader
at the moment, not to the putative favorite.

Quoted post said:

Tony Rall said:

Bob Martin said:

Biggest gainers by time :
+1:00 Jens Voigt

I don't understand. Voight gained 3:00 plus 18 bonus seconds over the
previous day's leader.

Voigt was at 1:00 to the leader, and now is at 0:00 to the
leader. By convention, GC times are referenced to the leader
at the moment, not to the putative favorite.

Ok, that makes some degree of sense. Thanks.

--
Tony Rall

Quoted message said:

Tony Rall said:

Bob Martin said:

Biggest gainers by time :
+1:00 Jens Voigt

I don't understand. Voight gained 3:00 plus 18 bonus seconds over the
previous day's leader.

Voigt was at 1:00 to the leader, and now is at 0:00 to the
leader. By convention, GC times are referenced to the leader
at the moment, not to the putative favorite.

True, but I was interested in seeing the times that way, so I put
together this list (with Armstrong's time subtracted out of all).

Favourites standings:
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 0.00
5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.02
6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 1.07
7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 1.26
8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.36
11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.50
12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.50
13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 2.13
15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.18
16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 2.31
19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.54
21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 2.58
24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.24
27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.39
29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 4.03
34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 4.08
37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quicep 4.11
52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 5.48

--
Theodore (Ted) Heise <[email hidden]> Bloomington, IN, USA

Theodore Heise said:

34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 4.08

Very quietly finished 11th these past two days. Possible top 10
contender?

-Gerard

Bob Martin said:

in 470314 20050710 184409 Ewoud Dronkert said:

Bob Martin said:

Favourites standings :
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 2.18
5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.20
6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 3.25
7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 3.44
8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.54
11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.08
12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.08
13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.31
15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.36
16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.49
19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 5.12
21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 5.16
24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.42
27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.57
29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 6.21
34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 6.26
37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 6.29
52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 8.06
128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 35.04

Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo?
Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and
Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.

I knew this list would be contentious! I don't agree about Savoldelli as he's
a major rider and will be DSC's leader if LA falls off his bike. Yes, Cioni and
Cancellara look out of place, but it'll be interesting to see how they recover.
I had Mayo in the list in his previous races but he always disappointed.
I'll add Sastre and Menchov.
Any more?

Disappointing or no, Mayo is more consistent than Botero. He should be
on this list.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in 470314 20050710 184409 Ewoud Dronkert <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bob Martin said:

Favourites standings :
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel
2.18
5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team
3.20
6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC
3.25
7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC
3.44
8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team
3.54
11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team
4.08
12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems
4.08
13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne
4.31
15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems
4.36
16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner
4.49
19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
5.12
21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth
5.16
24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne
5.42
27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne
5.57
29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel
6.21
34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi
6.26
37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step
6.29
52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi
8.06
128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo
35.04

Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo?
Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and
Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.

I knew this list would be contentious! I don't agree about Savoldelli as
he's
a major rider and will be DSC's leader if LA falls off his bike. Yes,
Cioni and
Cancellara look out of place, but it'll be interesting to see how they
recover.
I had Mayo in the list in his previous races but he always disappointed.
I'll add Sastre and Menchov.
Any more?

With a crazy man like Michael Rasmussen in the peloton...I'd add him to the
favourites :o)

HB

HBJensen said:

With a crazy man like Michael Rasmussen in the peloton...I'd add him to the
favourites :o)

Unfortunatly, M.Rasmussen doesn't think of himself as a GC guy - or to
be more accurate: he doesn't think a GC spot is worth fighting for,
because he has no chance of finnishing 1th overall i Paris. A guy like
M.Rasmussen thinks that 2nd or 3rd in Paris only is honourable if your
where figthing for 1st spot, and failed. Fighting for 2nd or 3rd isn't.

Danish ex pro R.Sørensen thinks that M.Rasmussen _can_ take the jersy
tuesday if he stays put with Discovery, CSC and T-Mobile until the
last climb. Sørensen also says that Armstrong won't try to follow him,
in fear of exploding and loosing the Tour to CSC and T-Mobile.

However R.Sørensen also says M.Rasmussen could keep the jearsy throug
the Alpes and Pyraneas, and continously gain time on L.Armstrong,
I.Basso, A.Vinokurov and J.Ulrich. Eventually M.Rasmussen will lose
big time on the last TT, at least 5 minuttes, pehaps 10 minuttes and
end up between 3th to 5th GC in Paris.

The above scenario isn't honourable in Rasmussens strange universe
(A universe even stranger than R.Sørensen, who would often hit the
brakes in a spring Classics instead of fighting for 2nd - I Remember a
Ronde van Vlandern where E.Van Hoydonck escpaed a four rider group, and
Sørensen didn't even try to sprint for 2nd, althoug he by far was the
fastest ands strongest of them remaining 3 riders)

Acording to R.Sørensen the only guys capable of finnishing 1th and 2nd
are L.Armstrong, I.Basso, A.Vinukurov and J.Ulrich. (R.Sørensen also
says that B.Jullich _will_ finnish 3rd - either while supporting
I.Basso's victory or as the CSC substitue for a failling I.Basso)

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 300+300GB SATA, 8xDVD+/-RW, Bluetooth
mus + tastatur, R9600PRO, iSight, eyeTV200 & LaCie Photon18Vision TFT

I said:

Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo?

Never mind.

--
Firefox Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/