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tandem suspension

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01 / Original posttandem suspensionJoshua Goldberg · 26 Feb 2005 02 / This pagePosts 1–12Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #12Dave Larrington · 2 Mar 2005

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Recumbent bicycles
Published
26 February 2005
Last activity
2 March 2005
Original author
Joshua Goldberg
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12
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Drivetrain compatibilityDisc brakesSpoke count

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  1. Original post
    Joshua Goldberg
    Archived post
    #1

    Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell seats?

    Am having a tandem tadpole built (similar to the Stein Magnum) but with side
    rails like the MASA Slingshot, but and am using 2 hardshell seats from
    Optima (Baron seats). The wife and I will both be clipped into our egg
    beaters....so I'd think having the seats moving around too much might mess
    with our pedaling a bit. Thing is though, me thinks using simple elastomer
    rings with maybe 10mm of travel to cushion the seats and minimize road
    vibration is the way to go.

    Other problem/confusion is we will be pulling a trailer 32" W. by 72" L. and
    it will be heavy. If we opt for a rear swing arm, all that trailer weight
    would likely keep the swing arm suspension pushed down all the
    time...removing any benefit from it and thus making seat suspension look
    better.

    The tandem will have a fiberglass nose cone and the trailer will have a
    fiberglass body (looks like a wide Thule).

    Report
  2. Al Luminium
    Archived post
    #2

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Joshua Goldberg said:

    Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    seats?


    snip>

    Quoted message said:

    As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the pivot.
    (Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial quality
    bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports well.)

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth


    Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which would
    probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By incorporating a
    high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a long tongue hitch
    with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when turning.

    Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack. It's
    long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is rear
    wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which will give
    you some cush too.

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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    Report
  3. Tom Sherman
    Archived post
    #3
    Al Luminium said:

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Joshua Goldberg said:

    Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    seats?

    snip>

    Quoted message said:

    As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the pivot.
    (Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial quality
    bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports well.)

    Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which would
    probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By incorporating a
    high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a long tongue hitch
    with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when turning.

    This would also work on a Dragonflyer [1], but I would suggest a large
    diameter, thick wall tube to resist "Wile E. Coyote" level stresses.

    Quoted message said:

    Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack. It's
    long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is rear
    wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which will give
    you some cush too.

    If the trailer is for power assist, it should be possible to use the
    motor connected to a resistor grid as a brake. This is commonly done on
    diesel-electric hybrid locomotives and off-road haul trucks.

    [1] See <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df3.jpg>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth

    Report
  4. Al Luminium
    Archived post
    #4

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Al Luminium said:

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joshua Goldberg wrote:

    >Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    >suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    >seats?
    >

    snip>

    Quoted message said:

    As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the
    pivot. (Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial
    quality bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports
    well.)

    Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which
    would probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By
    incorporating a high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a
    long tongue hitch with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when
    turning.

    This would also work on a Dragonflyer [1], but I would suggest a large
    diameter, thick wall tube to resist "Wile E. Coyote" level stresses.

    Quoted message said:

    Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack.
    It's long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is
    rear wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which
    will give you some cush too.

    If the trailer is for power assist, it should be possible to use the motor
    connected to a resistor grid as a brake. This is commonly done on
    diesel-electric hybrid locomotives and off-road haul trucks.

    [1] See <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df3.jpg>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth

    If the trailer has the motor, it should become the tractor and the trike
    should be the trailer. A pusher motor system would probably be a deadly bad
    design.

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

    Report
  5. Al Luminium
    Archived post
    #5

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Al Luminium said:

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joshua Goldberg wrote:

    >Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    >suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    >seats?
    >

    snip>

    Quoted message said:

    As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the
    pivot. (Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial
    quality bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports
    well.)

    Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which
    would probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By
    incorporating a high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a
    long tongue hitch with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when
    turning.

    This would also work on a Dragonflyer [1], but I would suggest a large
    diameter, thick wall tube to resist "Wile E. Coyote" level stresses.

    Quoted message said:

    Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack.
    It's long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is
    rear wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which
    will give you some cush too.

    If the trailer is for power assist, it should be possible to use the motor
    connected to a resistor grid as a brake. This is commonly done on
    diesel-electric hybrid locomotives and off-road haul trucks.

    [1] See <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df3.jpg>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth

    If the trailer has the motor, it should become the tractor and the trike
    should be the trailer. A pusher motor system would probably be a deadly bad
    design.

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

    Report
  6. Tom Sherman
    Archived post
    #6
    Al Luminium said:

    If the trailer has the motor, it should become the tractor and the trike
    should be the trailer. A pusher motor system would probably be a deadly bad
    design.

    I have seen pictures of several power assist trailers, but have not
    actually witnessed any in use.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth

    Report
  7. Steve Knight
    Archived post
    #7

    here you go these would help out a fair amount
    http://www.pantourhub.com/products.html#wheel
    I have a hub on my front wheel.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

    Report
  8. Steve Knight
    Archived post
    #8


    Quoted message said:

    Nothing against the Pantour hub, but there a couple of issue for tandem
    trike use. They would only work on the front of those few trikes that
    use conventional double-sided mounted front wheels. The other is they
    are not compatible with the Arai (or equivalent) drag brake,
    necessitating the use of a third disc brake as a drag brake, which has
    several disadvantages compared to the Arai for the specialized application.

    they do have a single sided hubs for trikes. but the drag brake that they don't
    have.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

    Report
  9. Tom Sherman
    Archived post
    #9
    Steve Knight said:


    Quoted message said:

    Nothing against the Pantour hub, but there a couple of issue for tandem
    trike use. They would only work on the front of those few trikes that
    use conventional double-sided mounted front wheels. The other is they
    are not compatible with the Arai (or equivalent) drag brake,
    necessitating the use of a third disc brake as a drag brake, which has
    several disadvantages compared to the Arai for the specialized application.

    they do have a single sided hubs for trikes. but the drag brake that they don't
    have.

    I finally found the single-sided hub - there seems to be a temporary
    problem with broken links or possibly Mozilla browser compatibility on
    the Pantour website.

    Only being available in 32 holes drilling does seem to be a
    disadvantage, as I would seriously consider more spokes and/or heavier
    rims on a tandem trike loaded for touring. Pantour should consider
    making 36 and 48 hole high flange versions.

    The range of motion of the Pantour is small enough that is might reduce
    the number of issues that occur when using suspension on a multi-track
    vehicle.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth

    Report
  10. Dave Larrington
    Archived post
    #10
    Al Luminium said:

    Josh, HPvelotechnik says no trailers.

    They've changed their minds on this one, though only the Streetmachine seems
    to be happy with single-wheel trailers.

    --

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    World Domination?
    Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
    floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

    Report
  11. Al Luminium
    Archived post
    #11

    "Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Al Luminium said:

    Josh, HPvelotechnik says no trailers.

    They've changed their minds on this one, though only the Streetmachine
    seems
    to be happy with single-wheel trailers.

    --

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    World Domination?
    Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
    floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)


    Wait, wait....you mean I read that 60 page manual and they went and changed
    the bloody instructions?

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

    Report
  12. Dave Larrington
    Archived post
    #12
    Al Luminium said:

    Wait, wait....you mean I read that 60 page manual and they went and
    changed
    the bloody instructions?

    So it would appear, but they might have changed something in the design /
    manufacture - beefier pivot bolts or something. Certainly my Speedmachine -
    frame built in late 2000 - considered trailers to be /streng verboten/. I
    hae towed a lightly-laden BoB with it, but you won't tell anyone, will you?

    --

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    World Domination?
    Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
    floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

    Report

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