tandem road bike

rudycyclist said:

I've recently just looked at some tandem road bikes because I'm a much stronger rider than my dad (he just rides recreationally on a hybrid) and I want to ride with him but at a pace where we'd keep up with each other. I figured a tandem would be great, but they seem quite expensive. Where can I get a good tandem road bike for maybe $500-$600? What brand should I go with? I just looked at Trek's line and nothing impressed me but I really haven't looked at anything else.

Rudy

You don't want a cheap tandem. Used ones pop up on CraigsList and the like ocaisionally.

i too am looking for a tandem road bike. there seems to be an abundance of mtn bikes out there. ok well maybe not an abundance but more of them anyways. we have a norco (canadian) evolution. front shock and rear seat post shock. we have really enjoyed it, put just over 3000 kilometers on it. 4 years now. but we want to go faster and pass cars. there is some on ebay. good luck.

rudycyclist said:

I've recently just looked at some tandem road bikes because I'm a much stronger rider than my dad (he just rides recreationally on a hybrid) and I want to ride with him but at a pace where we'd keep up with each other. I figured a tandem would be great, but they seem quite expensive. Where can I get a good tandem road bike for maybe $500-$600? What brand should I go with? I just looked at Trek's line and nothing impressed me but I really haven't looked at anything else.

Find a LOCAL-to-YOU tandem group ... the odds are very high that someone in THAT group will have a QUALITY/USED tandem to sell you because they have recently bought a new one OR because they want to buy a new one. Talk to as many of those people as you can.

SANTANA tandems are the BEST -- they have tandems in ALL price ranges ... you can spend more, but you won't get a better bike. You can request a catalog from them (via their web site) ... it will answer almost everything you may want to (make that, should) know before you buy any tandem.

Older tandems have 27" wheels ... not good ... but, not bad.

Newer tandems have a longer cockpit for the stoker than older tandems.

You'll want to TEST RIDE a tandem with someone else as the captain, first ...

Eventually, you want to TEST RIDE a tandem with your father as the stoker BEFORE buying because you may not be a compatible tandem team ...

alfeng said:

Find a LOCAL-to-YOU tandem group ... the odds are very high that someone in THAT group will have a QUALITY/USED tandem to sell you because they have recently bought a new one OR because they want to buy a new one. Talk to as many of those people as you can.

SANTANA tandems are the BEST -- they have tandems in ALL price ranges ... you can spend more, but you won't get a better bike. You can request a catalog from them (via their web site) ... it will answer almost everything you may want to (make that, should) know before you buy any tandem.

Older tandems have 27" wheels ... not good ... but, not bad.

Newer tandems have a longer cockpit for the stoker than older tandems.

You'll want to TEST RIDE a tandem with someone else as the captain, first ...

Eventually, you want to TEST RIDE a tandem with your father as the stoker BEFORE buying because you may not be a compatible tandem team ...

Do you have a tandem alfeng?
Santana are good but not the best but it depends what your requirements are. They charge a premium more due to Bill's salemanship than anything else. The current shape of tandems today with the direct lateral tube was pioneered by Santana. The handling on a Santana is slow compared to a Co-motion which if you are used to riding a single bike is much more fun to throw into corners.
Santana uses 160mm rear wheel spacing which limits hub and wheel compatability to no benefit over the industry standard 145mm.
If you inhabit the tandem@hobbes list and www.bikeforums.net groups you will find more negatives than positives.
Santana top of the line tandem, the "beyond" is about $3000 more and heavier than Paketa's 11kg tandem which is only US $10,000.

Cheap tandems Burley or Trek secondhand. If you do a search on the tandem@hobbes you'll find some more info. Another great resource is Mark Livingwoods TheTandemLink

Tandems are terrific fun. We are thinking about a Ventena El Conquistador de Montañas’ as our next one.

Cheers

Geoff
Co-Motion Mocha Copilot
Santana Sovereign

geoffs said:

Do you have a tandem alfeng?
Santana are good but not the best but it depends what your requirements are. They charge a premium more due to Bill's salemanship than anything else. The current shape of tandems today with the direct lateral tube was pioneered by Santana. The handling on a Santana is slow compared to a Co-motion which if you are used to riding a single bike is much more fun to throw into corners.
Santana uses 160mm rear wheel spacing which limits hub and wheel compatability to no benefit over the industry standard 145mm.
If you inhabit the tandem@hobbes list and www.bikeforums.net groups you will find more negatives than positives.
Santana top of the line tandem, the "beyond" is about $3000 more and heavier than Paketa's 11kg tandem which is only US $10,000.

Cheap tandems Burley or Trek secondhand. If you do a search on the tandem@hobbes you'll find some more info. Another great resource is Mark Livingwoods TheTandemLink

Tandems are terrific fun. We are thinking about a Ventena El Conquistador de Montañas’ as our next one.

Cheers

Geoff
Co-Motion Mocha Copilot
Santana Sovereign

Alas, half-bikes, only ...

I guess I should have said, and thank you for correcting me, you PROBABLY won't find a BETTER used tandem than a SANTANA in the general price range stated.

I've seen used (early-vintage with 27" wheels) Santanas for about a $1000AU ... I doubt you could find a used Co-motion for under $3000AU, if at all! I only know one couple who own a Co-motion (YES, a very nice "bike"😉 ... unless one of them has a debilitating affliction, I don't think that they will be selling it.

Of course, there are moderately-priced, used Santanas on the market because they may certainly be described as the mid-wife/grandfather/whatever to the modern tandem ...

No doubt, I am a victim of the Santana hype ...

Since I don't personally own a tandem, I don't see a problem with the 160mm rear wheel ... there was a time before the current 145mm "standard." There was a time when 27" wheels were common in the States -- on tandems AND half-bikes. I just don't see a lot of people swapping wheels with other riders/teams.

Now, with regard to that 11kg Paketa -- yeah, that should be a nice ride!

To stray a little ... I know one couple who is thinking of getting a tandem ... the woman is a much stronger/BETTER half-bike rider (she is on a sponsored team and can certainly handle a "single" bike better than her husband can) and should be the captain (only a couple of inches shorter, I think) ... Regardless, when talking with an "engineer" whose degree is from STANFORD who rides a tandem with his (the "engineer's"😉 wife who knows the pair better than I do, he (the "engineer"😉 was surprised when I noted that I thought the particular woman would/should be the captain whereas he (the "engineer"😉 presumed the woman's husband would be the captain because he (the "engineer"😉 thought the husband's upper body strength would be necessary to "handle the bike" -- the Stanford "guy" apparently didn't realize that the stoker can make the bike feel heavier or lighter for the captain to handle based on the stoker's inexperience/experience ... both he (the guy with his MS from Stanford -- what aren't they teaching them?) & his wife must be a non-communicative & clumsy team -- or, maybe their frame/fork needs to be aligned. The point to this poorly-exposited digression is to note for rudycyclist that communication between the captain & stoker is important for efficient (non-aggravating) tandem riding.

alfeng said:

Alas, half-bikes, only ...

I guess I should have said, and thank you for correcting me, you PROBABLY won't find a BETTER used tandem than a SANTANA in the general price range stated.

I've seen used (early-vintage with 27" wheels) Santanas for about a $1000AU ... I doubt you could find a used Co-motion for under $3000AU, if at all! I only know one couple who own a Co-motion (YES, a very nice "bike"😉 ... unless one of them has a debilitating affliction, I don't think that they will be selling it.

Of course, there are moderately-priced, used Santanas on the market because they may certainly be described as the mid-wife/grandfather/whatever to the modern tandem ...

No doubt, I am a victim of the Santana hype ...

Since I don't personally own a tandem, I don't see a problem with the 160mm rear wheel ... there was a time before the current 145mm "standard." There was a time when 27" wheels were common in the States -- on tandems AND half-bikes. I just don't see a lot of people swapping wheels with other riders/teams.

Now, with regard to that 11kg Paketa -- yeah, that should be a nice ride!

To stray a little ... I know one couple who is thinking of getting a tandem ... the woman is a much stronger/BETTER half-bike rider (she is on a sponsored team and can certainly handle a "single" bike better than her husband can) and should be the captain (only a couple of inches shorter, I think) ... Regardless, when talking with an "engineer" whose degree is from STANFORD who rides a tandem with his (the "engineer's"😉 wife who knows the pair better than I do, he (the "engineer"😉 was surprised when I noted that I thought the particular woman would/should be the captain whereas he (the "engineer"😉 presumed the woman's husband would be the captain because he (the "engineer"😉 thought the husband's upper body strength would be necessary to "handle the bike" -- the Stanford "guy" apparently didn't realize that the stoker can make the bike feel heavier or lighter for the captain to handle based on the stoker's inexperience/experience ... both he (the guy with his MS from Stanford -- what aren't they teaching them?) & his wife must be a non-communicative & clumsy team -- or, maybe their frame/fork needs to be aligned. The point to this poorly-exposited digression is to note for rudycyclist that communication between the captain & stoker is important for efficient (non-aggravating) tandem riding.

The Santanas that are only $1000 are most probably be fitted with wheels that use freewheels. The axles bend easily unless the riders are light and are very gentle on parts. I bought our Santana in '91 and it is the last of the Steel Sovereigns that were made. The fillet brazing on the frame (which wasn't built by Santana) is a work of art But, the wheels were [censored], the paint was so soft it would show fingerprints, the B/B weighed over 600gr each ...... The rear eccentric is the only original part left on the bike.
Put 2 guys on an original and get ready to spend some cash on repairs. New wheels at the very least.
160mm wheels mean a wider Q factor. This mainly affect smaller stokers adn means that a special spcer needs to be fitted to the front derailleur for it to work correctly. There is no need for the 160mm as 145mm will give a dishless rear wheel. It was Bill thinking it was a good idea at the time and now he wont concede that it isn't required.
The tandems with 27" wheels use 140mm rear spacing
Co-motions do come up at a reasonable price occaisionally.
Cannondale also make good tandems that come up on ebay fairly often. The older ones dont have a particularly strong fork but they can be easily swapped out for a Co-motion steel fork for a reasonable cost.
I would agree with you about the better skilled wife being up the front. You do need a bit of strength but if they are both about the same size they should be alright. The only time I have really heaved on the bars was when I tried to trackstand for a bit to long and the bike leaned right when I unclip on the left. So I reefed on the bars and pulled the bike upright again so I could unclip. Unfortunately when I wrenched the bike upright, I flicked my wife off the bike. She was not a happy girl and it was a couple of years before I was allowed to trackstand again :o)
You can slide the front wheel on a tandem and stay upright which takes a bit of strength but not an excessive amount I think. We have been on a dirt road when we did the Barham to Albury BNSW ride that had a sandy surface that was about 20km long. The guys in the paceline behind us said that for the whole time we we on the dirt our wheels were not in line as either the front or the back was sliding around. (we were doing 20-25kmhr on dirt and 40-45kmhr on the road)
It's easier to get a tandem off the shelf when both riders are a similar size. Our Co-motion is custom as I am 30cm taller and 45kg heavier than my stoker. I've been on the back of a friends tandem who is much smaller than I, while doing pub crawls in London and he managed OK.
We use a wireless Tandem-com to help with the communication.

Cheers

Geoff

geoffs said:

The Santanas that are only $1000 generally are old enough to still most probably be fitted with wheels that use freewheels. These bend axles easily unless the riders are light and are very gentle on parts.

Yes, an older Santana (or, any older tandem) will undoubtedly have a rear wheel with a freewheel ... but, it is easy-enough to have the rim relaced to a contemprary hub (at least, IMO).

FWIW. I just re-built an Ultegra 6500 rear hub so that it only has (at the OTHER extreme!) 120mm spacing, now -- it was easy enough to do AFTER thinking about it for a while [a friend is thinking about a non-sewup pair of wheels for his vintage (circa 1970) Bob Jackson, and I wanted to check the feasibility of a non-freewheel alternative without resorting to respacing his frame ... which is easy enough to do, too ... but, I live 1200+ miles away, now, and he doesn't "trust" the shops near him] ... you can do almost anything with those Shimano hubs if you think about it.

geoffs said:

I would agree with you about the better skilled wife being up the front. You do need a bit of strength but if they are both about the same size they should be alright.

Yes, I think they are about the same size ... not quite sure ... I think she is about 5'3" (maybe, 115-120lbs) and he looks as though he is only about 5'5" (so, 130-135lbs, maybe ... hopefully, I'm not insulting either of them!).

geoffs said:

We use a wireless Tandem-com to help with the communication.

Excellent idea/recommendation!

alfeng said:

Yes, I think they are about the same size ... not quite sure ... I think she is about 5'3" (maybe, 115-120lbs) and he looks as though he is only about 5'5" (so, 130-135lbs, maybe ... hopefully, I'm not insulting either of them!).
Excellent idea/recommendation!

Hubs meant for single bike shouldn't be used for tandems. Shimano make a 40h XT tandem hub that is OK for only US$150. Other hubs that fit are White Industries, Chris King, Phil Wood, Hope and possibly Hugi which start at over US$325.

In the old days of freewheels we used to bend axles regularly and rip the rings off the Sachs freewheels. Destroyed a few set of pawls as well.
Freewheel can be very difficult to remove after having been wound on by two people. A vice and brute strength are necessary.
We use a variety of CK (36h 700c DeepV), Hope (48h 700c Dyad) and Hugi (40h 26" DeepV) on our tandems. All of these seem good with the Hugi being the quietest.

Cheers

Geoff