Tandem opinions

Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:22:13 GMT, <[email hidden]>, "bb"

Quoted message said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. We know nothing about them at this point. Weight and
speed are not big issues. Touring, low gearing, carrying capacity and comfort are issues. Not
interested on one that folds.

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very good
relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra to get
exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it I'd like to
get rid of.

I think you'd be better off to buy a used one and ride it for a year. Then you'd have a better idea
of what you really want and whether you even like riding a tandem.
--
zk

bb said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. We know nothing about them at this point. Weight and
speed are not big issues. Touring, low gearing, carrying capacity and comfort are issues. Not
interested on one that folds.

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very good
relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra to get
exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it I'd like to
get rid of.

All opinions/experiences appreciated.

My sister and bro-in-law just bought a Burley tandem and like it a lot. But...they rented one a few
times first before actually buying.

I've heard a few horror stories of people buying tandems only to find it was a more demanding
enterprise (the actual riding) than they were really comfortable with. It takes coordination,
subordination and compromise to ride one and even the best relationships can be tested by using one!

Just talked to a couple three weeks ago who owned a tandem for one day! They didn't like it, and the
new Burley my sister bought was actually second hand with perhaps only a 100 miles on it. It wasn't
the ride the first owners thought it would be.

Rent a tandem and test your relationship with your captain/stoker, then buy if you're still talking.

SMH

"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. We know nothing about them at this point. Weight and
speed are not big issues. Touring, low gearing, carrying capacity and comfort are issues. Not
interested on one that folds.

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very good
relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra to get
exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it I'd like to
get rid of.

All opinions/experiences appreciated.

I have to agree with the opinion that you and your wife first rent or borrow one in order to find
out if you will like it. My wife and I bought one (used) and we love it but riding it is different
from a single bike. Besides the obvious, like the fact that you can't independently coast and the
captain has to alert the stoker about upcoming bumps, I can add a case in point. Once our timing
chain broke when we were still about 10 miles from home. Being the stronger rider I offered to
become the stoker while my wife steered. I never imagined how much trust the stoker must have in the
captain. When the bike started to lean and I couldn't correct for it (since the stoker can't steer)
I had this extremely strong urge to jump off.

As to your other questions, I think having a tandem set up with the gearing and accessories that you
want is a good idea. I did that with our tandem. Buying the frame and components separately a good
way to do that.

Good luck, Tom

Regarding the rent first before buying issue: My LBS owner expressed the same reservations and will
loan us his for as long as it takes to figure out if we still want one when the time comes. His wife
can't stand it.

bob

"Thomas Reynolds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. We know nothing about

them at

Quoted message said:

I have to agree with the opinion that you and your wife first rent or borrow one in order to find
out if you will like it> Good luck, Tom

Quoted message said:

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very good
relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra to get
exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it

I'd

Quoted message said:

like to get rid of.

#1: Tandems can bring out the best in a couple, and sometimes the worst.
Consider that you're essentially riveted to the other person and cannot get away; he/she can bring
up whatever conversation they wish because they have a captive audience. In my wife's case, it was
vacations (something she thought we didn't do enough of; in retrospect, she was right). The other
fun thing, for us, was that we'd be climbing some really nasty hill, and she'd be trying to have a
conversation with me and actually get mad because I couldn't, since I was out of breath. Care to
tell me what's wrong with this picture?

#2: Getting a tandem custom-built with exactly what *you* want can be a bad
way to go. If you're looking at a stock bike and thinking, why don't they spec this or that cool
part... well, install this or that cool part and you'll find out why! I fell into that trap with my
first tandem. The better tandem companies have chosen boring, mundane stuff that actually works.
Tandems are terribly hard on equipment, and a lot of the stuff that you'd think would work great,
dies in the field. So, if you go to a reputable dealer who sells lots of tandems, their
recommendations may be worthwhile.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. We know nothing about them

at

Quoted message said:

this point. Weight and speed are not big issues. Touring, low gearing, carrying capacity and
comfort are issues. Not interested on one that folds.

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very good
relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra to get
exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it

I'd

Quoted message said:

like to get rid of.

All opinions/experiences appreciated.

Thanks bob

"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. We know nothing about them at this point. All
opinions/experiences appreciated.

I bought a Cannondale MT2000 tandem in June. It gets ridden by several combinations: When I ride
with my wife or son, I captain. When I ride with my main biker buddy, I stoke. With riser bars on
the back, my wife can have the upright position she likes, but I can set them low enough for myself.

In Washington, DC, where we live, we are lucky to be at one end of the C&O Canal, one of the best
bike rides anywhere (but not for a road bike). I can't afford two tandems, so it's got to be an MTB.
Even so, we're not giving up that much on the road. My son and I or my pal and I blow away almost
all the single road bikes we encounter. You've got twice the horsepower on a tandem with less than
twice the drag. Even in the MTB configuration, it is really fast.

We haven't had any conflicts. The captains have been considerate and the stokers have been
trusting. I think it's a good idea for the captain to spend some time stoking. I actually prefer
stoking. I have more confidence in my captain than I do in myself. All I have to do is pedal and
enjoy the scenery.

You've probably read about the advantages of a tandem: easy conversation and ability of cyclists of
differing abilities to stick together. That has been the case with us. None of we four who ride it
regularly are well-matched on singles -- one is always waitiing impatiently and the other is
struggling to catch up. But we are perfectly matched on the tandem. It's been a real dream boat.

Why wait a year.

Pat O'Neil

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very
good relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra
to get exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it

I'd

Quoted message said:

like to get rid of.

#1: Tandems can bring out the best in a couple, and sometimes the worst.
Consider that you're essentially riveted to the other person and cannot get away; he/she can bring
up whatever conversation they wish because they have a captive audience. In my wife's case, it was
vacations (something she thought we didn't do enough of; in retrospect, she was right). The other
fun thing, for us, was that we'd be climbing some really nasty hill, and she'd be trying to have a
conversation with me and actually get mad because I couldn't, since I was out of breath. Care to
tell me what's wrong with this picture?

#2: Getting a tandem custom-built with exactly what *you* want can be a bad
way to go. If you're looking at a stock bike and thinking, why don't they spec this or that cool
part... well, install this or that cool part and you'll find out why! I fell into that trap with
my first tandem. The better tandem companies have chosen boring, mundane stuff that actually
works. Tandems are terribly hard on equipment, and a lot of the stuff that you'd think would work
great, dies in the field. So, if you go to a reputable dealer who sells lots of tandems, their
recommendations may be worthwhile.

I think the toughest part for my wife and I would be cadence-matching. I expect the only way we
would be successful would be with one which allowed each of us our own cadence, and those appear to
be rather expensive.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thought we didn't do enough of; in retrospect, she was right). The

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fun thing, for us, was that we'd be climbing some really nasty hill, and she'd be trying to have
a conversation with me and actually get mad

because

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I couldn't, since I was out of breath. Care to tell me what's wrong

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this picture?

When it doesn't feel right, I back off too!

Quoted message said:

I think the toughest part for my wife and I would be cadence-matching. I expect the only way we
would be successful would be with one which allowed each of us our own cadence, and those appear
to be rather expensive.

True. I'm not a great-spinning super-cyclist but this was a problem. At a suitable cadence for me, I
could feel my "passenger" bouncing.

Would it be possible to have different sized chainrings between front and back to allow one rider to
be always 20% higher cadence than the other. I imagine it would be odd when starting off, but
wondering whether that would be impractical.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thought we didn't do enough of; in retrospect, she was right). The

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fun thing, for us, was that we'd be climbing some really nasty hill, and she'd be trying to
have a conversation with me and actually get mad

because

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I couldn't, since I was out of breath. Care to tell me what's wrong

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this picture?

When it doesn't feel right, I back off too!

Quoted message said:

I think the toughest part for my wife and I would be cadence-matching. I expect the only way we
would be successful would be with one which allowed each of us our own cadence, and those appear
to be rather expensive.

True. I'm not a great-spinning super-cyclist but this was a problem. At a suitable cadence for me,
I could feel my "passenger" bouncing.

Would it be possible to have different sized chainrings between front and back to allow one rider
to be always 20% higher cadence than the other. I imagine it would be odd when starting off, but
wondering whether that would be impractical.

I would think that would work as long as the timing chain was long enough to ensure your feet didn't
hit each other when you were 180 degrees out of phase on your pedal stroke. It would certainly be
simpler than the solutions I've seen which involve an extra free wheel.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

First I should tell you about tandemhobbes:

hobbes.ucsd.edutandemOpen ↗

Discussions, much like rec.bicycle.misc, but only about tandems. Gearheads can go wild, you also get
the discussions on matching jerseys as a bonus.

But, to go with my experience. My husband and I have been tandeming for two successful years now.
Here's how we started out:

Mike, as always is right. After outfitting my husband on his "single", my husband really got into
road biking. After six months or so, he started on me, and I said I'd only bike with him if I were
attached. My husband went back to Mike, who directed us to a tandem specialty shop. If you have one
nearby take advantage. We showed up and started with a steel Santana. They set up the pedals, gave
us the captain alone, then captain as stoker with experienced captain, then captain with experienced
stoker, then stoker with experienced captain, then just us training. (Apparently they didn't used to
do the training, and despite how entertaining it was to see inexperienced folks bikes into the
nearest light pole, they weren't selling too many tandems, so they started the training/checkout
thing.) Took the 5 mile loop. Yep, the bumps were brutal and it rode like a large American
limousine. We weren't sure this was a good idea. Then they set up another tandem, CoMotion this
time, then we went home and thought, came back and tried another, and another, and went home and
thought. The test rides got longer, the bikes got more exotic. We eventually ended up with a
CoMotion Skycap (softbeam, S&S couplers) which drove more like a single, and he didn't even have to
call out bumps anymore. We then started training for a year for our tour of the Lot/Dordogne regions
of France.

My take on touring on a tandem:

1) If there are steep mountains you aren't familiar with you need a drag brake. We no longer use our
drag brake on our rides around home, we know what's around the next curve. We used it for days at
a time in France. The teams without drag brakes came riding into town after us with tired arms
and hands from trying to hand brake more than they were used to.

2) Put the computer on the stoker bars. They have much more time to stare at it.

3) Stokers also have lots of time to look at maps, (and change clothes, and chat on cell phones, and
eat....) so let them tell you which way to go.

4) If you put the fenders on it won't rain. If you don't, it will.

5) In this day and age of restrictions on oversized luggage, the S&S couplers got us down to legal
sized luggage and no hassles at airports. We have trouble hanging pictures and we could get the
bike together. You might want to consider this if you plan to use air travel to get to touring
destinations.

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very
good relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra
to get exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it

I'd

Quoted message said:

like to get rid of.

#1: Tandems can bring out the best in a couple, and sometimes the worst.
Consider that you're essentially riveted to the other person and cannot

get

Quoted message said:

away; he/she can bring up whatever conversation they wish because they

have

Quoted message said:

a captive audience. In my wife's case, it was vacations (something she thought we didn't do enough
of; in retrospect, she was right). The other fun thing, for us, was that we'd be climbing some
really nasty hill, and she'd be trying to have a conversation with me and actually get mad

because

Quoted message said:

I couldn't, since I was out of breath. Care to tell me what's wrong with this picture?

#2: Getting a tandem custom-built with exactly what *you* want can be a

bad

Quoted message said:

way to go. If you're looking at a stock bike and thinking, why don't they spec this or that cool
part... well, install this or that cool part and you'll find out why! I fell into that trap with
my first tandem. The better tandem companies have chosen boring, mundane stuff that actually
works. Tandems are terribly hard on equipment, and a lot of the stuff

that

Quoted message said:

you'd think would work great, dies in the field. So, if you go to a reputable dealer who sells
lots of tandems, their recommendations may be worthwhile.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. We know nothing about

them

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

this point. Weight and speed are not big issues. Touring, low gearing, carrying capacity and
comfort are issues. Not interested on one that folds.

My preference would be to get the frame and have my LBS build it up from their. I have a very
good relationship with my bike-builder and my wheel-builder and it's worth the little bit extra
to get exactly what I want rather than have the thing come in a box with a lot of stuff on it

I'd

Quoted message said:

like to get rid of.

All opinions/experiences appreciated.

Thanks bob

"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The wife and I are a year away from a tandem. ...

All opinions/experiences appreciated.

Thanks bob

If your LBS knows enough about tandems, your plan to let them build it sounds OK to me. But
tandems are much different from singles, and not all bike shops are knowledgeable about them.
Exercise care there.

I agree with the "try before you buy" sentiment. Some people just don't take to tandems.

Regarding drag brakes, which someone mentioned: you may not need one. Our tandem (a now-very-old
custom-built one) has no drag brake and has never needed one, despite doing at least a little
mountain riding.

Strong parts are very valuable - don't worry about weight. Strong wheels are critical. I've broken
_front_ spokes when maneuvering slowly in parking lots! But our 48-spoke rear wheel has been
perfect, no broken spokes in its 24 years. Phil hubs are excellent, too. Low gears are critical.

There is a book dealing specifically with tandems, written for people in exactly your position.
Check out _The Tandem Scoop_ by John Schubert. My paperback copy was just $9. Publisher is Burley
Design Cooperative, a tandem company. ISBN 0-9637190-1-7

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would it be possible to have different sized chainrings between front

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back to allow one rider to be always 20% higher cadence than the other. I imagine it would be
odd when starting off, but wondering whether that would be impractical.

I would think that would work as long as the timing chain was long enough to ensure your feet
didn't hit each other when you were 180 degrees out of phase on your pedal stroke. It would
certainly be simpler than the solutions I've seen which involve an extra free wheel.

Still won't work well. Two other problems (besides cranks running into each other)-

#1: Power front the stoker (rear rider) will be delivered at a
constantly-varying part of the front rider's stroke. No matter how smooth a cyclist's pedal stroke,
there are still areas where you push markedly stronger than others, and the dead spots & power
areas of the stroke won't be predictable. The two cyclists will often feel like they're fighting
each other.

#2: It's a natural tendancy to ride with the inside pedal "up" in a tight
corner. Even those with out-of-phase cranks manage to compromise on this, but with cranks whose
phase is constantly changing, this would drive people nuts.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

I have been thinking about getting a tandem and this discussion will sure help. but here is the
monkey wrench. my wife is blind. now she rode a bike when she was a kid fine. would sometimes crash
and burn but other then that. she really wants to ride again. I don't think her balance is as good
as it used to be would it be a problem? could I overcome it till she gets the hang of it?

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See
knight-toolworks.comknight-toolworks.comOpen ↗ For prices and ordering instructions.

I'd be interested in how folx would solve this problem:

I want to get my wife to join riding. She's quite a bit shorter than me, not as powerful or
experienced. So I am contemplating a tandem. A standard tanedm would mean she'd be the stoker and I
the captain, so all she'd really see is my back. I would love to get her to sit in front (lower than
me) and still be able to operate the bike.

One option I know would be the Hase Pino <http://www.hase-spezialraeder.de/content_e/pino.htm>
though I'd rather sit recumbent too.

Is there any recumbent tandem which allows steering etc from the rear (I guess I'd prefer underseat
steering) and sufficient view across the front-seating stoker?

this one looks about the same

bilenky.comviewpnt.htmlOpen ↗

"Mathias Koerber" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd be interested in how folx would solve this problem:

I want to get my wife to join riding. She's quite a bit shorter than me, not as powerful or
experienced. So I am contemplating a tandem. A standard tanedm would mean she'd be the stoker and
I the captain, so all she'd really see is my back. I would love to get her to sit in front (lower
than me) and still be able to operate the bike.

One option I know would be the Hase Pino <http://www.hase-spezialraeder.de/content_e/pino.htm>
though I'd rather sit recumbent too.

Is there any recumbent tandem which allows steering etc from the rear (I guess I'd prefer
underseat steering) and sufficient view across the front-seating stoker?

There are organizations that matches up experience captains with blind stokers, you might contact
your local chapter of USABA (United States Association of Blind Athletes) or, if you are outside the
United States, look for the organization sending teams to the IBSA World Championships. Your wife
could try tandeming with an experienced captain. With experience, a captain can hold up just about
anyone, but the first few times out if you aren't used to balancing on a tandem her lack of balance
could be a problem. Alternately, you could get experience with a stoker with balance. Once you have
the starting, stopping, cornering balance down you probably could compensate for your wife. (In the
beginning I had to be careful not to do anything to throw off our tandems balance, now I can get
water bottles out of cages, riffle my captains pockets for ringing cell phones, and turn around and
make encourage the riders behind us. :-) He's great at compensating now.)

"Steve Knight" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been thinking about getting a tandem and this discussion will sure

help.

Quoted message said:

but here is the monkey wrench. my wife is blind. now she rode a bike when

she

Quoted message said:

was a kid fine. would sometimes crash and burn but other then that. she

really

Quoted message said:

wants to ride again. I don't think her balance is as good as it used to be would it be a

problem?

Quoted message said:

could I overcome it till she gets the hang of it?

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See
knight-toolworks.comknight-toolworks.comOpen ↗ For prices and ordering instructions.

Mathias said:

I'd be interested in how folx would solve this problem:

I want to get my wife to join riding. She's quite a bit shorter than me, not as powerful or
experienced. So I am contemplating a tandem. A standard tanedm would mean she'd be the stoker and
I the captain, so all she'd really see is my back. I would love to get her to sit in front (lower
than me) and still be able to operate the bike.

One option I know would be the Hase Pino <http://www.hase-spezialraeder.de/content_e/pino.htm>
though I'd rather sit recumbent too.

Is there any recumbent tandem which allows steering etc from the rear (I guess I'd prefer
underseat steering) and sufficient view across the front-seating stoker?

Counterpoint/Viewpoint. See www.bilenky.com or google for C'point GOBA nieces Karen and you'll
find one of my informative pages.

--Karen M. not quite as prolific as Ken K. or Sheldon

Steve Knight said:

I have been thinking about getting a tandem and this discussion will sure help. but here is the
monkey wrench. my wife is blind. now she rode a bike when she was a kid fine. would sometimes
crash and burn but other then that. she really wants to ride again. I don't think her balance is
as good as it used to be would it be a problem? could I overcome it till she gets the hang of it?

Others have done this. In fact, blind stoker events was one of the big reasons I got the tandem bug
last spring. I rode (solo) in a benefit for the blind in the Delaware Valley, organized by Pamala
Fernandes. She had several blind stokers lined up, more than we could find captains for. Many had
not ridden since losing their sight.

Maybe next year I'll be ready, but first I have to build it -- then learn to captain.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |

Cathy Kearns said:

but the first few times out if you aren't used to balancing on a tandem her lack of balance could
be a problem. Alternately, you could get experience with a stoker with balance. Once you have the
starting, stopping, cornering balance down you probably could compensate for your wife.

thanks for the ideas. now all we need is money (G)

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See
knight-toolworks.comknight-toolworks.comOpen ↗ For prices and ordering instructions.