Talented Junior

Quoted message said:

Mark (MSA) said:

First of all please re-read and understand what I'm replying to.

"IMHO, no it is not pathetic". At no time did I suggest that wearing a
helmet is the most important thing you can do!

I'm presuming we are talking about someone becoming interested in/starting
racing, on a bicycle, in some form or another? IMHO (very important part
that), it is advisable to wear a crash helmet while partaking in any form
of cycle racing.

Ah, but that particular page on the BCF website isn't about racing, despite
being at the BCF site, it's general advice to beginners. It also, for
example, suggests an MTB is ideal for most sorts of cycling, so we're fairly
clear that racing isn't the only thing on the agenda here.

Then we were on different levels I think. My opinion on helmets
outside of racing is..well, I haven't got one really, wear one if you
want.

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark (MSA)

(') said:

I'm presuming we are talking about someone becoming interested
in/starting racing, on a bicycle, in some form or another? IMHO (very
important part that), it is advisable to wear a crash helmet while
partaking in any form of cycle racing. Given my experiences, I
personally (that relates to the M in IMHO) would not race without a
helmet, I have crashed numerous times (due to my own mistakes, and
those of others) in the past, and have been glad to be wearing a
helmet. I have scraped helmets, I have broken helmets; without
researching any further (which I don't because I would rather be riding
my bike) I am happy to think that the damage to the helmet means less
damage to my head. It is my (M) very simple view that wearing a helmet
causes me (M) no discomfort or disadvantage, so I wear one.

Well, you may think that, but the science is against you. The issue comes
down to speed of impact. At low speeds (i.e. single vehicle accidents
when not racing) there's no question, helmets are on average a good
thing. In accidents involving traffic, the rate of KSI increases with
the rate of helmet wearing, and while there are a number of confounding
factors involved it appears from the data that there probably is a
causal relationship here: more people wearing helmets is causing more
people to get killed. The excess deaths show up in road statistics, so
they're happening on the road, and it's a fair guess that they are
happening at speed. One proposed mechanism is rotational injury, which
it is possible that wearing a helmet aggravates.

We don't know when and in what circumstances helmets make injuries worse.
But we do know that in incidents with serious injury potential they
aggravate slightly more often than they ameliorate, because if they
didn't, KSI rates would go down as helmet wearing goes up.

In summary, no-one knows whether wearing a helmet when racing a bike on
the road is safer, neutral, or riskier than not wearing one. There
hasn't been a study of racing cyclist injuries to indicate either way.
However, on the evidence the probability is that it's neutral or
riskier.

Fair comments, and as a qualified 6-Sigma Black Belt I would never
disbelieve statistics (although apparently 74.3% of them are made up on
the spot!).

As you may have gathered though, on this subject my thoughts are, well,
un-educated.

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Simon Brooke said:

......snip

Quoted message said:

In summary, no-one knows whether wearing a helmet when racing a bike on
the road is safer, neutral, or riskier than not wearing one. There
hasn't been a study of racing cyclist injuries to indicate either way.
However, on the evidence the probability is that it's neutral or
riskier.

I wrote the following for The Vehicular Cyclist <http://magma.ca/~ocbc>

HELMETS NOT PROTECTING COMPETITIVE CYCLISTS. Ordinary cycling may be
low risk but competitive cycling is looking decidely risky. Perhaps
helmets are encouraging cyclists to take unreasonable risks in a search
for competitive success. In one August week, five racing cyclists died
as a result of separate crashes.

Cyclingnews.com reported that on August 12th the U23 Vuelta Juventud
held during four days in Costa Rica was halted when a leading group of
20 riders crashed into a bus while going down a Cat. 2 hill. A 17 year
old cyclist died. In sanctioned races, cyclists are required to wear a
helmet.

On August 15th, Cyclingnews.com reported that on the previous weekend,
a mountain biker landed on his head in a Norwegian Championship MTB
race and died shortly after. Two days later, it reported another
cyclist lost his life in a head-on collision with another cyclist in
Plano, Texas. According to the description the cyclist was riding
counter-clockwise on a circuit route near an industrial part of
southeast Plano when he collided with another cyclist who was training
clockwise on the same course. Both cyclists were wearing helmets, but
one suffered severe head trauma and died soon after the accident.

On August 16th, Cyclingnews.com reported that a cat 4 racing cyclist
died of head injuries when he was involved in a collision with a car in
the North Park area of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The day before, it
reported that a cyclist died of severe head and chest wounds on August
9th when he collided with a truck while training for a triathlon in
Loma Linda, California. In the latter two cases it was not reported
whether helmets were worn but helmet use is almost universal among
American triathletes and racing cyclists.

AB

in message <[email hidden]>,

the-vehicular-cyclist (') said:

Simon Brooke said:

.....snip

Quoted message said:

In summary, no-one knows whether wearing a helmet when racing a bike
on the road is safer, neutral, or riskier than not wearing one. There
hasn't been a study of racing cyclist injuries to indicate either way.
However, on the evidence the probability is that it's neutral or
riskier.

I wrote the following for The Vehicular Cyclist <http://magma.ca/~ocbc>

HELMETS NOT PROTECTING COMPETITIVE CYCLISTS. Ordinary cycling may be
low risk but competitive cycling is looking decidely risky. Perhaps
helmets are encouraging cyclists to take unreasonable risks in a search
for competitive success. In one August week, five racing cyclists died
as a result of separate crashes.

[snip: details of the deaths of cyclists]

Quoted message said:

In the latter two cases it was not reported
whether helmets were worn but helmet use is almost universal among
American triathletes and racing cyclists.

Whilst I am deeply skeptical of the overall safety benefits of helmets,
this too is just anecdote. As you correctly say, almost all racing
cyclists now wear helmets - largely, of course, because they are
required to. So we don't have an equivalent population of
non-helmet-wearing racing cyclists whose injury rate can be measured and
compared. Inevitably racing involves some degree of risk. Whether that
risk is greater or less with a helmet, I don't believe anyone has the
evidence to say. I also think that the risk equations for time
trialling, stage racing, cross country and downhill are all likely to be
different.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

A message from our sponsor: This site is now in free fall

"Mark \(MSA\)" <[email hidden]> sd / msg
<[email hidden]> dtd Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:25:51
+0100:

Quoted message said:

"IMHO, no it is not pathetic". At no time did I suggest that wearing a
helmet is the most important thing you can do!

Yet that is precisely what they are saying. Which is - as suggested -
pathetic.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Colin McKenzie said:

I have been assured that I will not be forced to wear a h***et on the
TfL cycle test track at Cycle 05 at ExCel. I would encourage others to
demand the same right.

out of interest, from whom did you receive this assurance?

It came via CTC from Andrew Brabazon, the marketing chap for the Show
- it extends to everyone.

Quoted message said:

Colin McKenzie