Taking Oxygen as Therapy

"MbumboTatum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm reading a book on reversing arteriosclerosis and cleaning arteries.

Among

Quoted message said:

other things, it suggests spending 2 periods a day each lasting 1/2 hour

and

Quoted message said:

breathing pure oxygen from a tank (as opposed to a concentrator).

What are the benefits of oxygen breathing? In small doses such as this,

are

Quoted message said:

there any negative effects possible?

Did you know that oxygen can be toxic?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm reading a book on reversing arteriosclerosis and cleaning arteries.

Among

Quoted message said:

other things, it suggests spending 2 periods a day each lasting 1/2 hour

and

Quoted message said:

breathing pure oxygen from a tank (as opposed to a concentrator).

What are the benefits of oxygen breathing? In small doses such as this,

are

Quoted message said:

there any negative effects possible?

Did you know that oxygen can be toxic?

Yes, anything can be "in excess".

"MbumboTatum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm reading a book on reversing arteriosclerosis and cleaning arteries.

Among

Quoted message said:

other things, it suggests spending 2 periods a day each lasting 1/2

hour

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

breathing pure oxygen from a tank (as opposed to a concentrator).

What are the benefits of oxygen breathing? In small doses such as this,

are

Quoted message said:

there any negative effects possible?

Did you know that oxygen can be toxic?

Yes, anything can be "in excess".

The body generally prevents that by not absorbing any more O2 when a certain
level of arterial O2 sat is reached. However, it becomes toxic when it is
administered at higher pressures, and the % of O2 remains that of room air.

However, O2 therapy for anything other than asphyxia, etc. is just a bunch
of hot air.

My husband is a smoker and has COPD and takes (nightly) Oxygen. He has both the
machine concentrator and several bottles of O2. His setting is 2 1/2 what is
that cubic feet per minute.

Anyway, I do as you said and I take 2 sessions of oxygen a day. Once in the
morning for half hour, and again the same in the evening. I do my knitting
while on the O2 and I use the straight air from the bottle as it is more
concentrated. I take it at setting of 2 1/2. I'm also taking "artery buildup
reversal" supplements. And I know this is working.

My left arm in particular had been feeling weak and some heart pain when I
would exert myself with the left arm. Now that is all gone. I lost some weight
with my clear arteries program and I no longer feel any heart pain. After I had
lost weight I slowly began very gentle upper body exercise to strengthen my
arms and upper chest and back. This was very very slow and gentle, as I did not
want to blow out my heart and have a fatal attack. Again, I knew I could not
afford to go to a doctor and have a stint or bypass or any procedure. As well,
this whole process, including oxygen, was non-invasive. No trauma, surgery, no
super harsh lifetime doses of corrosive "blood thinners". I do recommend oxygen
therapy as a part of a regimen for clearing arteries.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: [email hidden] (VelmaFurio)
Date: 6/4/2004 12:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm also taking "artery buildup
reversal" supplements. And I know this is working.

no you don't

Quoted message said:

I do recommend oxygen
therapy as a part of a regimen for clearing arteries.

sorry...there is absolutely no evidence that what you are doing has done..or
could do..one iota of change in your coronary arteries...losing weight is
another issue..and good for your health..

your husband with COPD using oxygen is an entirely different story...

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm also taking "artery buildup
reversal" supplements. And I know this is working.

Velma Furio

Quoted message said:

no you don't
hawki

No time to argue with snot nose kids, son. Go back to your DVDs and popcorn.

"VelmaFurio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm also taking "artery buildup
reversal" supplements. And I know this is working.

Velma Furio

Quoted message said:

no you don't
hawki

No time to argue with snot nose kids, son. Go back to your DVDs and

popcorn.

Quoted message said:

Hawki is neither a "son" nor a "snot nose kid." She is an educated
healthcare professional who knows more about heart anatomy and oxygen
therapy that you could learn in five years.

Go back to your knitting, and leave the oxygen off. You're just drying your
nasal membranes to no good purpose.

--Rich

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: "Rich Shewmaker" [email hidden]
Date: 6/4/2004 1:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hawki is neither a "son" nor a "snot nose kid." She is an educated
healthcare professional who knows more about heart anatomy and oxygen
therapy that you could learn in five years.

Go back to your knitting, and leav

thanks Rich

but after reading that this former nurse actually caths herself and calls it
removing a kidney stone ...which as you pointed out..has to be in the bladder
by then....

sorta scares me that the average person would read her stuff and take it
seriously..

wow...don't we wish CAD could be reversed by breathing oxygen??

wait...we ALL bring oxygen in the air..so how come CAD even exists??

hmmmmm

hawki.....

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: [email hidden] (VelmaFurio)
Date: 6/4/2004 12:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm also taking "artery buildup
reversal" supplements. And I know this is working

..
A person who cannot lead a normal life takes supplements then gets a
'miracle effects' is usually piped into the placebo effect group.
Let's see if this effect lasts more than 6 months..

Quoted message said:

no you don't

Quoted message said:

I do recommend oxygen
therapy as a part of a regimen for clearing arteries.

sorry...there is absolutely no evidence that what you are doing has
done..or
could do..one iota of change in your coronary arteries...losing weight is
another issue..and good for your health..

I disagree there's studies showing that vitamin c and or in combination with
other supplements increases cartoid wall thickness, decreases CHD mortality
lowers stroke risk the list goes on etc.
Can you explain how losing weight would be beneficial to this person?

Quoted message said:

your husband with COPD using oxygen is an entirely different story...
hawki.....

Anth

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: "Rich Shewmaker" [email hidden]
Date: 6/4/2004 1:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hawki is neither a "son" nor a "snot nose kid." She is an educated
healthcare professional who knows more about heart anatomy and oxygen
therapy that you could learn in five years.

Go back to your knitting, and leav

thanks Rich

but after reading that this former nurse actually caths herself and calls
it
removing a kidney stone ...which as you pointed out..has to be in the
bladder
by then....

sorta scares me that the average person would read her stuff and take it
seriously..

wow...don't we wish CAD could be reversed by breathing oxygen??

wait...we ALL bring oxygen in the air..so how come CAD even exists??

(We all take vitamin c and pretty much all of us suffer at some point from
from sub clinical scurvy in times of stress)
Anth

Quoted message said:

hmmmmm
hawki.....

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"VelmaFurio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I'm also taking "artery buildup
>reversal" supplements. And I know this is working.
Velma Furio

Quoted message said:

no you don't
hawki

No time to argue with snot nose kids, son. Go back to your DVDs and

popcorn.

Quoted message said:

Hawki is neither a "son" nor a "snot nose kid." She is an educated
healthcare professional who knows more about heart anatomy and oxygen
therapy that you could learn in five years.

This is an appeal to 'authority' and therefore to ignorance (no offense
Hawki - I will demonstrate below)
I could name you many skilled cardioloogists who use supplements who would
'outrank Hawki' and disagree with her view.
Does this make Hawki ignorant or does it make them ignorant or indeed does
it make the mainstream docs ignorant ?
Or does it make me ignorant for believing in my doc because I don't have the
skills she has?

I seem to recall that mainstream medicine has _no_ established cure for
'heart disease'
If Hawki did know about heart anatomy as you say she wouldn't have quoted
'there is absolutely no evidence that what you are doing has done..or
could do..one iota of change in your coronary arteries...losing weight is
another issue..and good for your health..'

Why would losing weight have any effect?

Quoted message said:

Go back to your knitting, and leave the oxygen off. You're just drying
your
nasal membranes to no good purpose.

Perhaps you could supply some 'evidence' that oxygen has no effect?

Quoted message said:

--Rich

BTW
Hawki
I've thought more about your hubby's established CHD, if he does have CHD
then wouldn't it be wise to look for treatments
that are going to reduce the risk of things plaque's rupturing (heart
attacks) and more occlusion happening ?

Anth

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 6/14/2004 11:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm also taking "artery buildup

Quoted message said:

>>reversal" supplements. And I know this is working.
>Velma Furio

>no you don't
>hawki

anth...perhaps I should have phrased this better..."what does your angiogram
show??"

when someone says "I know it is working"...I want to see the proof...how one
"feels" does NOT mean squat (in CAD I mean)

Quoted message said:

This is an appeal to 'authority' and therefore to ignorance (no offense
Hawki - I will demonstrate below)
I could name you many skilled cardioloogists who use supplement

Quoted message said:

who would
'outrank Hawki' and disagree with her view.
Does this make Hawki ignorant or does it make them ignorant or indeed does
it make the mainstream docs ignorant ?
Or does it make me ignorant for believing in my doc because I don't

none of the above Anth

also depends on your definiton of supplements

our docs almost all take cholesterol lowering meds (if needed)...niacin..folic
acid..daily aspirin,,,PLUS the usual lifestyle stuff..weight control..aerobic
exercise..and diet

sorry if we were speaking a different language..but meaning the same thing..

to me "supplements" imply ginseng et al..obviously this is not what you mean

Quoted message said:

I seem to recall that mainstream medicine has _no_ established cure for
'heart disease'

true...but angiograms that demonstrate more than adequate blood flow (ie around
blockages with grafts..or stents that stay open!!)....this is what I mean by
"proof"

Quoted message said:

anatomy as you say she wouldn't have quoted
'there is absolutely no evidence that what you are doing has done..or
could do..one iota of change in your

Quoted message said:

coronary arteries..

sorry..again the guy made no mention that his angiogram..or at least a stress
echocardiogram indicate his arteries were "clear"..or at least better than
prior to his regimen

Quoted message said:

Why would losing weight have any effect?

mainly cuz a/ less fat to pump the blood around relieves stress on the heart as
a pump but more likely that it is sorta hard to maintain obesity while at the
same time consuming a diet that is less junk ,,high fat and high calories...I
suppose you could take in 1000 calories a day of ice cream!!!
that would make the weight question moot...

and YES there certainly are a proportion of CAD folks that are normal
weight..even skinny...in many cases they have OTHER risk factors...ie
smoking..family history..abnormal lipids..excessive stress

and yes it is true that 50% of those with a first heart attack have normal
lipids....

..>Perhaps you could supply some 'evidence' that oxygen has no effect?

Quoted message said:

actually it would be easier to document that it has none...unable to prove a
negative...

Quoted message said:

BTW
Hawki
I've thought more about your hubby's established CHD, if he does have CHD

Quoted message said:

then wouldn't it be wise to look for treatments
that are going to reduce the risk of things plaque's rupturing (heart
attacks) and more occlusion happening ?

Anth

actually he IS doing the above....lipids are normal..diet is good..at 65 he has
about 12% fat (very low)..he has the endurance and strength of an ox!! he
takes aspirin,,folic acid..multivits..niacin..statin

his stress echo 6 months ago (1 year after CABG) was 100% normal...all
arteries clear (we won't mention the 3 stents that DID occlude...he was in the
40% or so that stents occlude in..at the time there were NO coated stents in
the US...not that I am convinced that they make much of a difference)

if you have any other ideas please let me know...I DO think I will add
Coenzyme q 10 to his pill collection(and I doubled the folic acid the doc
suggested)...

unfortunately this is a game between not overtoxing the liver

oh...also he retired from his very high stress job of CEO of a small
international company!!! now he spends his time being a "handyman"..and
volunteering at Habitat for Humanity (he does the deconstruction,,not building
of houses!!) and enjoying the 4 granddaughters...

hopefully the combo will work ..at least for awhile...

thanks for your concern Anth..

hawki.....

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 6/14/2004 11:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm also taking "artery buildup
> >>reversal" supplements. And I know this is working.
> >Velma Furio
>
> >no you don't
> >hawki

anth...perhaps I should have phrased this better..."what does your
angiogram
show??"

I doubt you are going to see this as it's not accurate enough - calcified
plaques would show up on this, but what about pre CHD?

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

This is an appeal to 'authority' and therefore to ignorance (no offense
Hawki - I will demonstrate below)
I could name you many skilled cardioloogists who use supplement

Quoted message said:

who would
'outrank Hawki' and disagree with her view.
Does this make Hawki ignorant or does it make them ignorant or indeed does
it make the mainstream docs ignorant ?
Or does it make me ignorant for believing in my doc because I don't

none of the above Anth
also depends on your definiton of supplements

our docs almost all take cholesterol lowering meds (if
needed)...niacin..folic
acid..daily aspirin,,,PLUS the usual lifestyle stuff..weight
control..aerobic
exercise..and diet

Have you read tha article on the reversibility of atherosclerosis?
Willis, G. C. (1957) The Reversibility of Atherosclerosis, Canadian Medical
Association Journal, 77:106-109.

Quoted message said:

sorry if we were speaking a different language..but meaning the same
thing..
to me "supplements" imply ginseng et al..obviously this is not what you
mean

I was refering to antioxidants.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I seem to recall that mainstream medicine has _no_ established cure for
'heart disease'

true...but angiograms that demonstrate more than adequate blood flow (ie
around
blockages with grafts..or stents that stay open!!)....this is what I mean
by
"proof"

CT scans?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anatomy as you say she wouldn't have quoted
'there is absolutely no evidence that what you are doing has done..or
could do..one iota of change in your

Quoted message said:

coronary arteries..

sorry..again the guy made no mention that his angiogram..or at least a
stress
echocardiogram indicate his arteries were "clear"..or at least better than
prior to his regimen

No he did not but he did feel a lot better.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would losing weight have any effect?

mainly cuz a/ less fat to pump the blood around relieves stress on the
heart as
a pump but more likely that it is sorta hard to maintain obesity while at
the
same time consuming a diet that is less junk ,,high fat and high
calories...I
suppose you could take in 1000 calories a day of ice cream!!!
that would make the weight question moot...

I think the main risk with CHD is rupturing plaques.

Quoted message said:

and YES there certainly are a proportion of CAD folks that are normal
weight..even skinny...in many cases they have OTHER risk factors...ie
smoking..family history..abnormal lipids..excessive stress

and yes it is true that 50% of those with a first heart attack have normal
lipids....

The cholesterol myth spring to mind.

Quoted message said:

.>Perhaps you could supply some 'evidence' that oxygen has no effect?

Quoted message said:

actually it would be easier to document that it has none...unable to prove
a
negative...

Then it would not be accurate.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW
Hawki
I've thought more about your hubby's established CHD, if he does have CHD
then wouldn't it be wise to look for treatments
that are going to reduce the risk of things plaque's rupturing (heart
attacks) and more occlusion happening ?

Anth

actually he IS doing the above....lipids are normal..diet is good..at 65
he has
about 12% fat (very low)..he has the endurance and strength of an ox!! he
takes aspirin,,folic acid..multivits..niacin..statin
his stress echo 6 months ago (1 year after CABG) was 100% normal...all
arteries clear (we won't mention the 3 stents that DID occlude...he was in
the
40% or so that stents occlude in..at the time there were NO coated stents
in
the US...not that I am convinced that they make much of a difference)

There was a study (on life extension lef.org?) where the arteries of people
supplementing vitamin c were free of plaques vs another group which were
not.

Quoted message said:

if you have any other ideas please let me know...I DO think I will add
Coenzyme q 10 to his pill collection(and I doubled the folic acid the doc
suggested)...

Not sure - I would have mentioned Q10 as statins tend to deplete it also
something I found curious - while watching a video by Dr Levy - he said that
that behind arterial plaques they found 0 vitamin c..
Anth

Also,
You might ask your doc to look this guy up

E-Mail from Dr K Kenton
UK: 3-year clinical trial, 200+ males
Trial on Lp(a) using 6000 mg Vitamin C, 6000 mg Lysine & 800 IU Vitamin E
Soon to be Published Article
Plaque growth 800-1500 percent higher in placebo group
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:53:32 -0000
From 1997 to year 2000 (2-3 year study) we conducted a trial using
6g/day magnesium-ascorbate, 6g Lysine and 800 iu Vitamin E and in addition
flavonoids. The formulation is very similar to Tower Lab's and Linus
Pauling's suggestions. We now have a lot of data on 200+ male individuals
including Lp(a) but also on atherosclerotic, plaque size progression, plod
pressure, lipid profiles (cholesterol, triglycerides). One main important
observation was that the plaque growth progression was nearly halted to
about 2-3% per year in comparison with natural progression of 15-30%. We did
not find a significant reduction in Lp(a) as such but a clear reduction in
Apob. There were also other benefits such as the hair started to re-grow in
several individuals. The frequency of common colds were also reduced

http://www.saveyourheart.com/Medical%20Research%20Pauling%20Therapy%20Middle.html

Ask him for his records data etc and see if there's anything actually going
on.
Anth

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 6/14/2004 1:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I doubt you are going to see this as it's not accurate enough - calcified
plaques would show up on this, but

Quoted message said:

what about pre CHD?

angiograms are still the gold standard.....as calcified plaque while perhaps
visible on scans..do not mean it is going to rupture..ie MI...

whilst knowing that a coronary artery is 80+ blocked is not a good thing..and
in MY estimation is a scarier prospect..

again..angiograms are VERYYYY accurate...you would have to see some to believe
this...

Quoted message said:

Have you read tha article on the reversibility of atherosclerosis?
Willis, G. C. (1957) The Reversibility

sorry..but the body of cardiovascular knowledge in 1957 would not be comforting
(to me)...and angiograms were NOT being come...so how would they know..with
much confidence that "artherosclerosis was reversed?"

Quoted message said:

I was refering to antioxidants.

of course...this is important...

Quoted message said:

CT scans

don't show blood flow..great for solid lesions and tumors tho....

Quoted message said:

No he did not but he did feel a lot better.

symptomatic relief does not mean that internal situation has changed..

BTW...my hubby NEVER had any pain,,angina,,shortness of breath,,edema,,high
blood pressure,,,etc..

just a few hours of bilateral elbow pain !!! and then whammo...major life
threatening MI....

symptomatic relief can be placebo,,relief of worry and stress,,,,etc

give me objective measurements

Quoted message said:

I think the main risk with CHD is rupturing plaques.

aactually the MAIN risk is occlusion of a major
artery...thrombosis,,,spasm...etc...all plaques do not rupture to cause major
MI...

angina is caused by decreased blood supply due to narrowing,,,not rupture of
plaque

Quoted message said:

The cholesterol myth spring to mind.

sorry...I don't buy into that...have read,,seen..studied far too much to
believe that lipids are not important..not the ONLY risk for sure..but
certainly not a good situation..

Quoted message said:

.>Perhaps you could supply some 'evidence' that oxygen has no effect?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

actually it would be easier to document that it has none...unable to prove
a
negative...

Then it would not be accurate

sorry...again...unless oxygen therapy documented better coronary artery blood
flow...I don't buy it..

Quoted message said:

There was a study (on life extension lef.org?) where the arteries of people

Quoted message said:

supplementing vitamin c were free of plaques vs another group which were
not.

did they measure the plaque PRIOR to the supplementation,,and see a
regression??

Quoted message said:

while watching a video by Dr Levy - he said that
that behind arterial plaques they found 0 vitamin c..

I don't know if..or what..the significance that is..
hawki.....

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 6/14/2004 1:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I doubt you are going to see this as it's not accurate enough - calcified
plaques would show up on this, but

Quoted message said:

what about pre CHD?

angiograms are still the gold standard.....as calcified plaque while
perhaps
visible on scans..do not mean it is going to rupture..ie MI...

whilst knowing that a coronary artery is 80+ blocked is not a good
thing..and
in MY estimation is a scarier prospect..

again..angiograms are VERYYYY accurate...you would have to see some to
believe
this...

Quoted message said:

Have you read tha article on the reversibility of atherosclerosis?
Willis, G. C. (1957) The Reversibility

sorry..but the body of cardiovascular knowledge in 1957 would not be
comforting
(to me)...and angiograms were NOT being come...so how would they
know..with
much confidence that "artherosclerosis was reversed?"

Quoted message said:

I was refering to antioxidants.

of course...this is important...

Quoted message said:

CT scans

don't show blood flow..great for solid lesions and tumors tho....

Quoted message said:

No he did not but he did feel a lot better.

symptomatic relief does not mean that internal situation has changed..

Of course but it is important for the emotional welfare of the person.
For instance if I had cancer I would take Laetrile not because it offers a
cure, because it offers systematic relief of pain.

Quoted message said:

BTW...my hubby NEVER had any pain,,angina,,shortness of
breath,,edema,,high
blood pressure,,,etc..

Well that's a good thing and a bad thing!
Had he the warning signs he could have done something earlier.

Quoted message said:

just a few hours of bilateral elbow pain !!! and then whammo...major life
threatening MI....

symptomatic relief can be placebo,,relief of worry and stress,,,,etc
give me objective measurements

Quoted message said:

I think the main risk with CHD is rupturing plaques.

aactually the MAIN risk is occlusion of a major
artery...thrombosis,,,spasm...etc...all plaques do not rupture to cause
major
MI...

Plaque is a combination of fatty lipids calcium etc that stick to the artery
wall lining. A hard calcified shell or scar covers the plaque - this is
called the 'calcification.' Some plaques rupture.
When this happens, it causes the blood to clot inside the artery. If this
blood clot blocks the artery, it stops blood flow completely. This is what
happens in most heart attacks and strokes.
Thrombosis is caused by a occlusion or blood clot, which in turn is caused
by rupturing plaque that is why I plaques are a main risk factor. I read
somewhere that 80% of heart attacks were due to these rupturing plaques.

Quoted message said:

angina is caused by decreased blood supply due to narrowing,,,not rupture

of

Quoted message said:

plaque

Quoted message said:

The cholesterol myth spring to mind.

sorry...I don't buy into that...have read,,seen..studied far too much to
believe that lipids are not important..not the ONLY risk for sure..but
certainly not a good situation..

http://www.thincs.org/Malcolm.proveit.htm#proveit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.>Perhaps you could supply some 'evidence' that oxygen has no effect?

Quoted message said:

>
actually it would be easier to document that it has none...unable to
prove
a
negative...

Then it would not be accurate

sorry...again...unless oxygen therapy documented better coronary artery
blood
flow...I don't buy it..

Quoted message said:

There was a study (on life extension lef.org?) where the arteries of
people

Quoted message said:

supplementing vitamin c were free of plaques vs another group which were
not.

Quoted message said:

did they measure the plaque PRIOR to the supplementation,,and see a
regression??

Yes, they measured the plaques and found almost complete prevention in the
vitamin group, hardly counts as proof though - then again lowering lipids is
hardly based on proof either.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while watching a video by Dr Levy - he said that that behind arterial
plaques they found 0 vitamin c..

I don't know if..or what..the significance that is..
hawki.....

It means behind the plaques there was no vitamin c- it was all used up for
some reason - why was this?.
Vitamin c help make collagen which repairs the lesions that form in the the
arteries, which in turn lead to plaques because they don't heal which in
turn can rupture leading to other terrible situations.
Anth

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Taking Oxygen as Therapy
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 6/14/2004 9:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

take Laetrile not because it offers a
cure, because it offers systematic relief of pain.

narcotics work better

Quoted message said:

BTW...my hubby NEVER had any pain,,angina,,shortness of

Quoted message said:

breath,,edema,,high
blood pressure,,,etc..

Well that's a good thing and a bad

Quoted message said:

thing!
Had he the warning signs he could have done something earlier.

I always called him "a risk factor walking"...so I was not surprised

Quoted message said:

Plaque is a combination of fatty lipids calcium etc that stick to the artery
wall lining. A hard calcified shell or scar covers the plaque - this is
called the 'calcification.' Some plaques rupture.
When this happens, it causes the blood to clot inside the artery. If this
blood clot blocks the artery, it stops blood flow completely. This is what
happens in most heart attacks and strokes.
Thrombosis is caused by a occlusion or blood clot, which in turn is caused
by rupturing plaque that is why I plaques are a main risk factor. I read
somewhere that 80% of heart attacks were due to these rupturing plaques.

Quoted message said:

angina is caused by decreased blood supply due to narrowing,,,not rupture

of

Quoted message said:

plaque

Quoted message said:

The cholesterol myth spring to mind.

this is only part of the story...last night...LONG after I should have gone to
bed....I typed into google "calcified plaques"...and spent hours reading and
reading...one particular interchange provided more info (all with references)
than I had seen in one place...(actually I limited my search to
sci.med.cardiology

what I gleaned is that "calcified plaque" is what they call "old
plaque"...may have been there for years and years...

this is NOT usually the cause of heart attacks..not sure where you got your 80%
figure...

the build up of lipids which eventually calcify actually occurs in the intima
of the vessels..actually UNDER the surface of the endothelium..ie ..the vessel
itself remains smooth and slippery..

it is the gradual narrowing of the vessel,,as the plaque builds up and
encroaches on the lumen..that is more of an issue...sorta like a water pipe
that is clogged with hard water gunk..

a vessel that should be 100% patent can gradually narrow down,,allowing less %
of blood flow to pass easily...after about 70% of the lumen is occluded,,,the
myocardium "fed" by that vessel is deprived of oxygen..voila..angina,,esp with
exertion..

THEN...if the vessel approaches say 90% occlusion..esp if feeding the left
ventricle...then we are in big trouble...it is the narrowing that encourages
the build up of "clots" which can eventually totally or almost totally..cause
occlusion of the vessel...if said vessel is feeding the left ventricle (esp the
LAD).....voila we have major MI..if not opened ASAP with
thrombolytics,,angioplasty stents or open heart..we could have death..or very
serious "cardiac cripple" status...ie you might live,,but not be able to walk
two steps...

just an ancedote...my "cardiac" sister was with me in the ER when dear hubby
had his MI (BTW..tho I am NOT an acute care RN...just ONE look at his face and
my hand was on the phone calling 911...it is a bit instinctive..or classic in
his case...another BTW...chew aspirin if you think you are having a heart
attack...first ?? the paramedics asked me!!)

anyhoo....they immediately gave him second generation TPA..cannot recall the
name..but it is "pushed" IV and goes to work dissolving the clot...within 10
minutes he felt 90% better,,he pinked up...they had already called him the cath
lab team to cardiac cath him..but the use of a strong thrombolytic makes
sticking needles in a bit risky (bleeding)...then..all of a sudden he clutched
his chest..pulled off the oxygen mask and exclaimed.."doc...I can't
breathe,,and the pain is worse"...

my sister looked up at the monitor and her face went whiter...later she told me
that he was very close to cardiac arrest!! and if SHE had been in charge..we
would have been OUT of there...
luckily...5 minutes later he again pinked up..his EKG got better...by that time
the cath team had arrived..but the interventional cardiologist decided to
postpone the cath til next morning..less risk of bleeding..

my "theory" is that the thrombolytic was successful in loosening up and
dissolving the clot,,but perhaps the debris bounced around a bit,,temporarily
totally occluding his LAD...which is called the "widow maker"...as if not
opened,,not good survival..

so...back to Anth's post...I personally don't feel that plaque rupture is the
main cause of MI..but gradual narrowing and eventual buildup of clot at the
site of narrowing..

thus..prevention is the key....

just my h.o.

hawki.....