SwStudio/David in Ontario?

Quoted message said:

For several days now I've been trying to get a bit of a more filled out
race report from David in Ontario, also known as SwStudio.

Maybe he killfiled you ? Anyway, I'm leaving your entire post in, so he
can post a followup to this.

Quoted message said:

As this
blizzard and cold front hit the East Coast of N. America...I've been
researching some of the coldest races ever held in N. America, etc.

I've been trying to learn the length of David's race he said he was in.
I'm curious as to the distance runners raced in -23F....and the time
they were exposed to those conditions. I am also curious as to how
many runners actually placed themeselves in that kind of environment.
And I was curious to see of the sponsor of the race and the RD do this
as a matter of habit and routine (hold racing events with temps at -23F
WindChill).

I've not been successful in gettng David to let me know who sponsored
this race he was in, the organization/sponsor behind it. I've also not
been successful in getting David to disclose the distance of the race.
I've also not been able to get David to disclose an approximation of
how many people entered this race with these conditions.

If someone could get David in Ontario, you know the guy, Mr. SwStudio
that does he weekly roundups?....that's him. If someone could perhaps
get him to "fill in the gaps' of his race report....thtat would be
great! Thanks!

--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

thanks Donnie! For a minute I was actually starting to think he was
fabricating content on the ng (if he was intentionally being evasive).
But then thought better and that there is no way possible a man of
his good standing and character would do such a thing. After
all....why would a person fabricate such content?

I'm sure I'm just in his KF and that now he will "fill in the gaps" in
his race report. After all..appropriate content of race reports is who
held the event, distance, and approx. number of runners.....no? Basic
stuff right? I'm sure David in Ontario / SwStudio can swiftly fill in
the gaps in his race report.....

[email hidden] wrote:
....

Quoted message said:

For several days now I've been trying to get a bit of a more filled out
race report from David in Ontario, also known as SwStudio. As this
blizzard and cold front hit the East Coast of N. America...I've been
researching some of the coldest races ever held in N. America, etc.

....

Man, what kind of research do you do without using the web?
Are you trolling by any chance? Or is it just too cold? ;-)

1.4142 minutes on google threw this up. Maybe this is what you're seeking:

http://www.burlingtonrunners.com/robbieburns/index.php
http://www.chiptimeresults.com/results/2005/Burns05.htm

So, what kind of research is this? What is it for?
Is it part of some class project? Are you going to produce/publish a report?
Curious minds would like to know.

Hope this helps.
jobs

Quoted message said:

Curious minds would like to know.

__

Hey jobs. I've never felt the need to google or try to research David
in Ontario / SwStudio's race report. I was simply asking him to fill
in basic gaps that were missing.

Holding race n -23F is noteworthy and exceptional. In the USA, most
RDs would cancel the event as the weather is forecasted, and there is
high risk in endangering people in exposing them to these conditions.

1. What was the distance
2. Who Many runners subjected themselves to this
3. Who sponsored this, the RD, etc?

David has had a full week to fill in the gaps to his race report.
He's the one who elected to introduce the content to the ng. I am
simply asking him further details to what he participated in himself.

For example....Did David in Ontario .. SwStudio run in a half marathon
in -23F? I don't know. Did 100 or 1,000 runners run? I don't know?
Is running races at -23F normal?...I don't know? David could easily
fill in these gaps to his content. I was simply appealing for him to.

Is there something inappropriate about this? I really don't see what
the big deal is about David in Ontatio SwStudio filling in the gaps in
his partial race report.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Curious minds would like to know.

__

Quoted message said:

Hey jobs. I've never felt the need to google or try to research David
in Ontario / SwStudio's race report. I was simply asking him to fill
in basic gaps that were missing.

It's interesting that you changed his "Coldness/Yaktrax" review
to a "race report." As far as his review was concerned, it was
pretty much complete. Didn't see any basic gaps in there.

Quoted message said:

Holding race n -23F is noteworthy and exceptional. In the USA, most
RDs would cancel the event as the weather is forecasted, and there is
high risk in endangering people in exposing them to these conditions.

Yes, I agree.

Quoted message said:

1. What was the distance
2. Who Many runners subjected themselves to this
3. Who sponsored this, the RD, etc?

David has had a full week to fill in the gaps to his race report.
He's the one who elected to introduce the content to the ng. I am
simply asking him further details to what he participated in himself.

Elected to introduce the content of his Yaktrax review.
Again, I didn't see any intention of a race report.
Seems like you are electing to put bytes into his bits.

Quoted message said:

For example....Did David in Ontario .. SwStudio run in a half marathon
in -23F? I don't know. Did 100 or 1,000 runners run? I don't know?
Is running races at -23F normal?...I don't know? David could easily
fill in these gaps to his content. I was simply appealing for him to.

Quoted message said:

Is there something inappropriate about this? I really don't see what
the big deal is about David in Ontatio SwStudio filling in the gaps in
his partial race report.

Nothing inappropriate about it.

So, in the same vein, is it inappropriate to ask you to fill in some
basic gaps in your statement that you are researching some of the
coldest races in North America? For example, why are you doing this
research? Is it funded by someone? Will the final results be reported
somewhere? How do you think people could benefit?

Maybe you could share the results of your research with this group.

Regards,
jobs

[email hidden] wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Curious minds would like to know.

__

Hey jobs. I've never felt the need to google or try to research David
in Ontario / SwStudio's race report. I was simply asking him to fill
in basic gaps that were missing.

Holding race n -23F is noteworthy and exceptional. In the USA, most
RDs would cancel the event as the weather is forecasted, and there is
high risk in endangering people in exposing them to these conditions.

Stop saying -23F -- actually he said it was -3F with a windchill of -23F,
which is very different, especially since windchill is somewhat subjective,
varying with gusts, your direction of travel, and the kind of shell you're
wearing, etc.

-Tony

hey tony,

Quoted message said:

Stop saying -23F -- actually he said it was -3F with a windchill of

-23F,
which is very different, especially since windchill is somewhat
subjective,
varying with gusts, your direction of travel, and the kind of shell
you're
wearing, etc.
____

Well David in Ontario SwStudios exact words were "The windchill at a
race I ran this morning was -30C (-23F). It was a 'real' windchill,
too."

I think David knows what he's talking about and phrased it in the
extreme end of context and degree. No? But I agree with you and
you're right about direction of travel, etc. Perhaps David will inform
us of his direction of travel (and for how long?). As in the distance?
Reasonable question...no?

Plus...you gotta recognize the -23F condition for human skin for what
it is, especially if you're a sponsor or RD. I am curious if the
Sponsor or RD routinely races in these conditions for example and if
holding an event in -23F WC is a non-issue of concern.

Quoted message said:

So, in the same vein, is it inappropriate to ask you to fill in some

basic gaps in your statement that you are researching some of the
coldest races in North America? For example, why are you doing this
research?
____

Many on this NG well know I am a cold weather weenie. DF will confirm
that. It's a struggle for me. I generally fall behind in the Winter
due to the weather. I'm combatting this head on this year with
Gore-tex gear for example. On the very day David in Ontario mentioned
his race in his post, I too raced but in 8F, not -23F like David did.
But I had to wear insulated gore-tex mitts for example to endure this.
There was a slight breeze in one section of the race but that was
enough to cut right into the poors of my face.

I find it fascinating that David raced in -23F and with a W/C like
that...my goodness. I and most people would want a face mask to
protect your face. No? I'm interested in the kind of gear one
wear's in racing in such extreme conditions. I am curious as to what
David wore to endure this.

Quoted message said:

Will the final results be reported somewhere?

Possibly. Donovan has a website that is dedicated to running gear in
cold environments. Donovan includes content, feedback, info from
people on this ng. So the results might be included on Donovan's
site.

Quoted message said:

How do you think people could benefit?

A lot of people have benefitted from Donovan's site. Plus many of us
are ignorant and unlearned when it comes to running in extreme cold.
For example...how long should someone be outside in extreme cold?
Should someone run a 1/2M in extreme cold or should it be limited to
10K stuff tops. Ya know some might argue that when it's -23F, an RD
should cancel an event in whole. However the RD & sponsor of the race
David ran in did not. I for example and in a 10 Mile race on
Saturday in NYC. It was 8F when I raced 5 days ago at the same place.
I hope it will be at least only freezing when I race in 3 days from
now. But what if it's 10F with 20mph winds creating a WindChill in the
negatives?.....I would help me and others, alot, now....to know if we
should even be racing 10 miles in the negatives.

Quoted message said:

Maybe you could share the results of your research with this group.

I absolutely will, once David responds. I will place his response in
context to the rest of the cold weather races I know of includng the
ones I've done in -1F and 0F (no windchill).

I think I address your questions mr. jobs.....thanks for asking!
hopefully David will chime in!

[email hidden] wrote:
.....

Quoted message said:

I think I address your questions mr. jobs.....thanks for asking!

Yes, you have. Thanks. I look forward to reading your research report.
FWIW, the coldest I've run (not raced) is only about 30-35F.

jobs

Quoted message said:

FWIW, the coldest I've run (not raced) is only about 30-35F.

jobs
----
wow. before you die jobs ya gotta run (and preferably race) in single
digits if not 0 or below. Heck, I have a 10 Mile race on Saturday and
at race time it's forecasted to be somewhere between 18-21 F. That's
warm considering in my 7 Miler last week it was 8F. I might wear
shorts.

What's particularly compelling or interestng about David in Ontario
SwStudio racing in -23F is that the event itself migrates into high
risk levels on Canadian standards (and I imagine all over the world).
I believe the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety is the
organization that defines Canada's Wind-chill Index Benchmarks for
Wind-chill. The frist warning point/benchmark is -27 where they
officially state " Risk of frostbite in prolonged exposures".

At any moment the weather can creep down 4 more notches to -27F....very
easily. If David in Ontario SwStudio raced in Half-Marathon last
Saturday....heck...even as fast as he is he was exposed for 1:15 just
in the race (he's a speedster) + pre race and post race! What about
the slower runners that might have taken 1:45 and 2 hours?

All we can do is speculate on the event since David in Ontario SwStudio
has not filled in the gaps of this race he ran on Saturday ( shared
with us the sponsor, distance of the event, and approx. number of
runners, etc.)

Do you think the RD/Sponsor of the race was aware of their country's
WindChill benchmark advisory and simply made the choice to disregard
and proceed with their race anyway? Is this common for Canadian Race
Sponsors and RDs?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

FWIW, the coldest I've run (not raced) is only about 30-35F.

jobs
----
wow. before you die jobs ya gotta run (and preferably race) in single
digits if not 0 or below. Heck, I have a 10 Mile race on Saturday and
at race time it's forecasted to be somewhere between 18-21 F. That's
warm considering in my 7 Miler last week it was 8F. I might wear
shorts.

Yeah, why don't ya wear shorts? Good idea. With
any luck you'll get frost nip (skin temp only
needs to be 24F) plus stage 2 hypothermia, which
can occur in temps as warm as 50F, btw...

All the sudden you're a cold expert. A little
knowledge/experience is more dangerous than
none at all.

Quoted message said:

What's particularly compelling or interestng about David in Ontario
SwStudio racing in -23F is that the event itself migrates into high
risk levels on Canadian standards (and I imagine all over the world).
I believe the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety is the
organization that defines Canada's Wind-chill Index Benchmarks for
Wind-chill. The frist warning point/benchmark is -27 where they
officially state " Risk of frostbite in prolonged exposures".

At any moment the weather can creep down 4 more notches to -27F....very
easily. If David in Ontario SwStudio raced in Half-Marathon last
Saturday....heck...even as fast as he is he was exposed for 1:15 just
in the race (he's a speedster) + pre race and post race! What about
the slower runners that might have taken 1:45 and 2 hours?

All we can do is speculate on the event since David in Ontario SwStudio
has not filled in the gaps of this race he ran on Saturday ( shared
with us the sponsor, distance of the event, and approx. number of
runners, etc.)

Do you think the RD/Sponsor of the race was aware of their country's
WindChill benchmark advisory and simply made the choice to disregard
and proceed with their race anyway? Is this common for Canadian Race
Sponsors and RDs?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heck, I have a 10 Mile race on Saturday and
at race time it's forecasted to be somewhere between 18-21 F.
That's
warm considering in my 7 Miler last week it was 8F. I might wear
shorts.

Then you had best make sure Mr. Johnson stays snug.

Quoted message said:

All we can do is speculate on the event since David in Ontario
SwStudio
has not filled in the gaps of this race he ran on Saturday ( shared
with us the sponsor, distance of the event, and approx. number of
runners, etc.)

Let's see, is this the forth or fifth inquiry on this. Do you think if
you ask a dozen times you're more likely to get an answer? He may never
answer just to bust your balls.

Quoted message said:

Do you think the RD/Sponsor of the race was aware of their country's
WindChill benchmark advisory and simply made the choice to disregard
and proceed with their race anyway? Is this common for Canadian
Race
Sponsors and RDs?

Good God Lance you're letting your wussiness blind you. Do you think the
Alaskans are masochists because they hold the Iditarod in worse
conditions over a longer period of time? Maybe these conditions are
normal up there and only warm weather pansies think of them as extreme.
If you keep all skin covered with proper layers what's the big deal? No
I would not run in those conditions but I can see why people do. Runners
have always tested conditions be it heat, cold, distance, speed. I know
the race applications are not very legal but they do sign it to say they
assume the risks.

Jobs posted the web page so why not look at his time and the RD name,
sponsors etc. Asking the same question over and over only pisses people
off and lessens the chance you will get an answer other than FU!

-Doug

Tom Phillips said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

FWIW, the coldest I've run (not raced) is only about 30-35F.

jobs
----
wow. before you die jobs ya gotta run (and preferably race) in single
digits if not 0 or below. Heck, I have a 10 Mile race on Saturday and
at race time it's forecasted to be somewhere between 18-21 F. That's
warm considering in my 7 Miler last week it was 8F. I might wear
shorts.

Yeah, why don't ya wear shorts? Good idea. With
any luck you'll get frost nip (skin temp only
needs to be 24F) plus stage 2 hypothermia, which
can occur in temps as warm as 50F, btw...

All the sudden you're a cold expert. A little
knowledge/experience is more dangerous than
none at all.

Yeah, after all this carping about windchill, I can't believe he's
going to leave "the goods" relatively unprotected. I'm going with
windboxers/briefs if it's in the 20s.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yeah, after all this carping about windchill, I can't believe he's
going to leave "the goods" relatively unprotected. I'm going with
windboxers/briefs if it's in the 20s.

I think you have discovered the real reason Lance is testy about the
cold - itsy bitsy family jewels.

-DF

Doug Freese said:

Let's see, is this the forth or fifth inquiry on this. Do you think

if

Quoted message said:

you ask a dozen times you're more likely to get an answer? He may

never

Quoted message said:

answer just to bust your balls.

The odds are indeed that David is laughing his ass off and
mischievously curious to see just how worked up Lance can get. The odds
are, too, that Lance is also laughing his ass off and merely pretending
to get worked up and to be obtuse.

Quoted message said:

Jobs posted the web page so why not look at his time and the RD name,

Quoted message said:

sponsors etc. Asking the same question over and over only pisses

people

Quoted message said:

off and lessens the chance you will get an answer other than FU!

There are jokes that are funny once and there are even jokes that are
funny the second time around *because* they are funny only once, but
all extended jokes become jarring sooner or later - even Steve Martin
pouring out java from a can - and I´m sure everyone but the two agree
that this particular one is well past being overripe.

(That said, Lance does have an uncanny knack for generating interesting
and entertaining discussion almost in spite of the quality of his own
contributions to it - and when he describes his running he tends to
offer a fresh and often vivid insight into a mindset that is different
from mine and that I can only learn about here. For me that is reason
enough to put up with his little cranks and idiosyncracies.)
Anders

"anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The odds are indeed that David is laughing his ass off and

mischievously curious to see just how worked up Lance can get. The odds
are, too, that Lance is also laughing his ass off and merely pretending
to get worked up and to be obtuse.>>

Drum roll.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are jokes that are funny once and there are even jokes that are

funny the second time around *because* they are funny only once, but
all extended jokes become jarring sooner or later - even Steve Martin
pouring out java from a can - and I´m sure everyone but the two agree
that this particular one is well past being overripe.>>

My 10 year niece is like that when you show her trick. 😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(That said, Lance does have an uncanny knack for generating
interesting

and entertaining discussion almost in spite of the quality of his own
contributions to it - and when he describes his running he tends to
offer a fresh and often vivid insight into a mindset that is different
from mine and that I can only learn about here. For me that is reason
enough to put up with his little cranks and idiosyncracies.)>>

I'm with you on this one. I normally enjoy his normally tongue in cheek
waxing and call him affectionately wussy boy but I guess the repetition
of his "humor" is pressing my ability to chuckle.

-Doug

anders said:

Doug Freese said:

Let's see, is this the forth or fifth inquiry on this. Do you think
if you ask a dozen times you're more likely to get an answer? He may never
answer just to bust your balls.

The odds are indeed that David is laughing his ass off and
mischievously curious to see just how worked up Lance can get.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible that he hasn't read anything
for a while (he hasn't posted!) and will get one hell of a laugh when he
checks back.

Quoted message said:

The odds
are, too, that Lance is also laughing his ass off and merely pretending
to get worked up and to be obtuse.

Yeah, he could be trolling. It's wouldn't exactly be unprecedented.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Yeah, after all this carping about windchill, I can't believe he's
going to leave "the goods" relatively unprotected. I'm going with
windboxers/briefs if it's in the 20s.

Yes, you don't want your [censored] to get cold.

Quoted message said:

My 10 year niece is like that when you show her trick. 😉

What other 'things' do you "show her" uncle Doogie? Careful, I will alert the
authorities if you get graphic...