switching tire sizes...

Joel Rose said:

Silly question(s) but here goes. Can I put a 700x25 tire on a rim that currently holds a 700x23
tire? I'm wondering if just the tires can be swapped. Or would an entire separate wheel set be
needed for each tire size?

Yes, you can just swap the tires.

Ted Bennett

"Joel Rose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Silly question(s) but here goes. Can I put a 700x25 tire on a rim that currently holds a 700x23
tire? I'm wondering if just the tires can be swapped. Or would an entire separate wheel set be
needed for each tire

size?

Quoted message said:

My trainer seems to be eating my good road tire and the only spare I have

at

Quoted message said:

the moment is of the larger size. And yes I have light pressure on the

tire

Quoted message said:

while it is in the trainer. Maybe I should ditch the trainer for a better one??

Yes on the tire swap. You want the roller set such that the tire deforms at least as much as it
would on the road. Less invites chafing.

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

jro-<< Silly question(s) but here goes. Can I put a 700x25 tire on a rim that currently holds a
700x23 tire?

yes and even a 28c if you have clearance of the frameset. All rims can support a variety of tire
sizes/widths.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Put on any size tire you like. The bigger the better and find a cheapo.

I don't use the trainer but my wife does. I've got a very beat rear wheel with a $10 tire on it. The
reason that I change the whole wheel is that I believe that holding the wheel by the ends of the
axel and rocking side to side puts strain on a wheel.

Joel Rose said:

Silly question(s) but here goes. Can I put a 700x25 tire on a rim that currently holds a 700x23
tire? I'm wondering if just the tires can be swapped. Or would an entire separate wheel set be
needed for each tire size?

My trainer seems to be eating my good road tire and the only spare I have at the moment is of the
larger size. And yes I have light pressure on the tire while it is in the trainer. Maybe I should
ditch the trainer for a better one??

Thanks, JRose

Quoted message said:

Joel Rose said:

Silly question(s) but here goes. Can I put a 700x25 tire on a rim that currently holds a 700x23
tire? I'm wondering if just the tires can be swapped. Or would an entire separate wheel set be
needed for each tire

size?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My trainer seems to be eating my good road tire and the only spare I have

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the moment is of the larger size. And yes I have light pressure on the

tire

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while it is in the trainer. Maybe I should ditch the trainer for a better one??

"Paul Kopit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Put on any size tire you like. The bigger the better and find a cheapo.

I don't use the trainer but my wife does. I've got a very beat rear wheel with a $10 tire on it.
The reason that I change the whole wheel is that I believe that holding the wheel by the ends of
the axel and rocking side to side puts strain on a wheel.

What sort of strain?

Could you compare/contrast with actual road impacts?

I hear that comment a lot lately but so far never a good explanataion. It usually starts with, "I
heard that trainers are bad for bikes". As someone who regularly aligns forks that have run headlong
in to immobile objects and who straightens/replaces rims that have been bashed, I have yet to see
similar impacts from trainers!!
--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My trainer seems to be eating my good road tire and the only spare I have at the moment is of
the larger size. And yes I have light pressure on the tire while it is in the trainer. Maybe I
should ditch the trainer for a better one??

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't use the trainer but my wife does. I've got a very beat rear wheel with a $10 tire on it.
The reason that I change the whole wheel is that I believe that holding the wheel by the ends of
the axel and rocking side to side puts strain on a wheel.

Quoted message said:

What sort of strain?

Quoted message said:

Could you compare/contrast with actual road impacts?

Quoted message said:

I hear that comment a lot lately but so far never a good explanation. It usually starts with, "I
heard that trainers are bad for bikes". As someone who regularly aligns forks that have run
headlong in to immobile objects and who straightens/replaces rims that have been bashed, I have
yet to see similar impacts from trainers!!

I think this is a case of missing cause and effect. Trainers with less than about 8" diameter
rollers can damage tires and this is often misattributed to various unrelated effects. Flexing a
tire at a continuous high rate causes internal heating and tread delamination ala Ford Explorer.
Considering the length and curvature of the contact patch should make apparent how severe tire
casing flex is. I recall tubular tires coming apart while riding small diameter rollers along with
all the conjecture about the cause. This does not affect wheels nearly as much, load distribution
from the tire being broader.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

I'm no engineer. On the road, when you stand and rock from side to side, the frame gives and the
spokes and wheels absorb strain.

If just seems go be an unnecessary stress on the frame.

A Muzi said:

What sort of strain?

Could you compare/contrast with actual road impacts?

I hear that comment a lot lately but so far never a good explanataion. It usually starts with, "I
heard that trainers are bad for bikes". As someone who regularly aligns forks that have run
headlong in to immobile objects and who straightens/replaces rims that have been bashed, I have yet
to see similar impacts from trainers!!
--

In article said:

I hear that comment a lot lately but so far never a good explanataion. It usually starts with, "I
heard that trainers are bad for bikes".

Ditto, I think the only harm from trainers is marring the skewers and occasionally gashing the paint
on the chainstays when you're installing the bike in it.

In article said:

I think this is a case of missing cause and effect. Trainers with less than about 8" diameter
rollers can damage tires and this is often misattributed to various unrelated effects. Flexing a
tire at a continuous high rate causes internal heating and tread delamination ala Ford Explorer.
Considering the length and curvature of the contact patch should make apparent how severe tire
casing flex is. I recall tubular tires coming apart while riding small diameter rollers along with
all the conjecture about the cause. This does not affect wheels nearly as much, load distribution
from the tire being broader.

Good point, I don't usually consider the tire wear issue as I have always used garbage heavy gumwall
tires on a trackstand style training and never worried too much about what happened to them, they
definitely get wear rapidly.

-regarding "trainers damage frames"-

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

What sort of strain?

Could you compare/contrast with actual road impacts?

I hear that comment a lot lately but so far never a good explanataion.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

usually starts with, "I heard that trainers are bad for bikes". As

someone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who regularly aligns forks that have run headlong in to immobile objects

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who straightens/replaces rims that have been bashed, I have yet to see similar impacts from
trainers!!

"Paul Kopit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm no engineer. On the road, when you stand and rock from side to side, the frame gives and the
spokes and wheels absorb strain.

If just seems go be an unnecessary stress on the frame.

I'm not either.

I've been asking these questions for a while with no answers.

My (unprofessional) impression is that you have no impact on the trainer and that's good. Less total
force involved. And instead of loading through the axle to the rims, the side motion you mention is
borne right at the axle by the trainer itself. If anything the rider's machinations would have even
less effect on the frame in a trainer.

So I can't envision a scenario where a bike gets damaged in a trainer, even though customers seem to
accept that as gospel.

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

Mark Hickey said:

Even luckier I live where I don't ever THINK about riding a trainer... ;-)

Don't gloat, it's bad karma. You may end up with an injury that keeps you on the trainer for
weeks. :-(
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

Terry Morse said:

Mark Hickey said:

Even luckier I live where I don't ever THINK about riding a trainer... ;-)

Don't gloat, it's bad karma. You may end up with an injury that keeps you on the trainer for
weeks. :-(

I'm already paid up on my karma account. Just getting back on the bike after a month and a half off
with an achilles tendon injury. Luckily, that means I missed the "dead of winter" (aka "some of the
nicest riding all year in Arizona"😉. ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

Andrew Muzi said:

My (unprofessional) impression is that you have no impact on the trainer and that's good. Less
total force involved. And instead of loading through the axle to the rims, the side motion you
mention is borne right at the axle by the trainer itself. If anything the rider's machinations
would have even less effect on the frame in a trainer.

So I can't envision a scenario where a bike gets damaged in a trainer, even though customers seem
to accept that as gospel.

Somebody mentioned strain on the wheels. I don't think that's actually the problem; if there is one,
it's the chainstays. When you pedal, you torque the BB shell side to side (roll and yaw). On the
road, some of this torque is tilting the bike, including the rear triangle, back and forth. On the
trainer, the rear dropouts are fixed, so the force exerted on the BB is going into flexing the
BB-chainstay triangle. It's as if you clamped the dropouts, put a bar through the BB shell, and
started wiggling it back and forth.

I haven't ever ridden a trainer enough to damage a frame, and maybe few people ever will. Somewhere
on rec.bicycles.*, Andrew Coggan reported breaking a lightweight steel frame at the chainstay, on
the trainer, but he rides the trainer a lot.

Benjamin Weiner said:

I haven't ever ridden a trainer enough to damage a frame, and maybe few people ever will.
Somewhere on rec.bicycles.*, Andrew Coggan reported breaking a lightweight steel frame at the
chainstay, on the trainer, but he rides the trainer a lot.

That brings to mind a serious and so-far intractable problem I've been having, I hope somebody can
help. Here's the deal:

Old fashioned trainers held the bike by the front fork and the chainstays just behind the bottom
bracket. I didn't like these because I had to remove my kickstand to mount the bike on the trainer,
and it felt funny to have the handlebars immobilized by the fork clamp--I like to pretend I'm riding
my favorite trials course when I use my trainer, and the inability to steer ruins the illusion.

Modern trainers generally grip the ends of the rear axle, steadying the bike, while allowing you to
tun the handlebars. This also has the added benefit that it raises the rear while leaving the front
wheel on the floor. Thus, not only can you steer as much as you want, but, unlike most road rides,
it's downhill all the way!

The big problem with this type of trainer (I'm sure I can't be the only one to have run into this
difficult) is that the trainer attachment makes it impossible to attach my B.O.B. trailer! I like to
schlep a couple of cinder blocks in the B.O.B. for extra resistance, so I get a better workout, but
there just doesn't seem to be any modern-style trainer that will permit the attachment of the B.O.B.

I've tried complaining to B.O.B. about this, but they've been no help. They act as if I'm some kind
of nut, and put me on hold whenever I call.

Surely there must be some sort of adaptor to make this work, but I'm stumped!

Carapace Completed Umber Haines Junction, Yukon, Canada
+------------------------------------------------------+
| There are strange things done in the midnight sun, | by the men who moil for gold, | The Arctic
| trails have their secret tales, | That would make your blood run cold... | --Robert Service |
+------------------------------------------------------+

Sheldon Brown said:

That brings to mind a serious and so-far intractable problem I've been having, I hope somebody can
help. Here's the deal:

Sheldon, you rascal. You now owe me one minute of my life back.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

I think they are right....you ARE some kind of nut.

Sheldon Brown said:

I've tried complaining to B.O.B. about this, but they've been no help. They act as if I'm some
kind of nut, and put me on hold whenever I call.

Carapace Completed Umber

Carapace Completed Umber said:

Modern trainers generally grip the ends of the rear axle, steadying the bike, while allowing you
to tun the handlebars. This also has the added benefit that it raises the rear while leaving the
front wheel on the floor. Thus, not only can you steer as much as you want, but, unlike most road
rides, it's downhill all the way!

You laugh, but somewhere in the bowels of r.b.racing archives there is a thread/flamefest about hill
training by elevating the front of your rollers, or the stupidity of same.

Quoted message said:

The big problem with this type of trainer (I'm sure I can't be the only one to have run into this
difficult) is that the trainer attachment makes it impossible to attach my B.O.B. trailer! I like
to schlep a couple of cinder blocks in the B.O.B. for extra resistance, so I get a better
workout, but there just doesn't seem to be any modern-style trainer that will permit the
attachment of the B.O.B.

I've tried complaining to B.O.B. about this, but they've been no help. They act as if I'm some
kind of nut, and put me on hold whenever I call.

Duh. Sure, that works on the road, but it is completely different on the trainer. The rear axle is
not going anywhere - to get the extra resistance you want, you need to clamp the B.O.B. to the axle
of the _resistance unit_.

B.O.B. know all about this, I think you've just been putting them off with your obscurantic phone
attitude. Just call them back and ask for the Blackburn left-handed flywheel adaptor. Be sure
to specify magnetic or wind trainer model. Do remember to install it with the skewer on the
flywheel side, as otherwise the clamping force will oppose the trainer resistance, actually
decreasing your workload. Additionally, the transverse torque about the skewer head could
cause the trainer to tip over during a hard workout if installed backwards.

Quoted message said:

Surely there must be some sort of adaptor to make this work, but I'm stumped!

Carapace Completed Umber Haines Junction, Yukon, Canada

Sheldon Brown said:

Old fashioned trainers held the bike by the front fork and the chainstays just behind the bottom
bracket. I didn't like these because I had to remove my kickstand to mount the bike on the
trainer, and it felt funny to have the handlebars immobilized by the fork clamp--I like to pretend
I'm riding my favorite trials course when I use my trainer, and the inability to steer ruins the
illusion.

Modern trainers generally grip the ends of the rear axle, steadying the bike, while allowing you
to tun the handlebars. This also has the added benefit that it raises the rear while leaving the
front wheel on the floor. Thus, not only can you steer as much as you want, but, unlike most road
rides, it's downhill all the way!

Quoted message said:

The big problem with this type of trainer (I'm sure I can't be the only one to have run into this
difficult) is that the trainer attachment makes it impossible to attach my B.O.B. trailer! I like
to schlep a couple of cinder blocks in the B.O.B. for extra resistance, so I get a better
workout, but there just doesn't seem to be any modern-style trainer that will permit the
attachment of the B.O.B.

To increase your workout, take the cinderblocks out of the BOB and put them under your front wheel,
so that you're riding *uphill* all the way.

You can get the same effect on old-fashioned trainers by lowering the post that supports the BB. Or
you could install a longer fork.

Note: Ask your doctor for advice on how many cinderblocks to use when starting out, so you won't
endanger your heart.

Another possibility: tighten up the front brake cable, so that the brake shoe rubs against the wheel
all the time. That will add lots of extra resistance. Make sure you use an old wheel, though, as
it's hell on the rim finish.

--
Ray Heindl (remove the X to reply)

Sheldon Brown said:

Surely there must be some sort of adaptor to make this work, but I'm stumped!

In good capitalist fashion, I would suggest that perhaps this represents a market niche for the
good folks at Harris Cyclery. With hard work, they might even have it ready for a roll out in,
say, 50 days?

Regards,

George
**********************************************************************
Dr. George O. Bizzigotti Telephone: (703) 610-2115 Mitretek Systems, Inc. Fax: (703) 610-1558 3150
Fairview Park Drive South E-Mail: [email hidden] Falls Church, Virginia, 22042-4519
**********************************************************************

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