Switching Shimano Triple-)Double on 5900 - chainline issues

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I decided to convert my Trek 5900 from a Triple to a Double. So I got a Double crankset, double
front & rear derailleurs, and an Ultegra double bottom bracket (109.5).

After setting it up I've found that the 39-11 combination causes the chain to rub on the inside of
the big chainring. I assume this is a chainline issue. Do I need to go back to using a Ultegra
triple BB (118.5) even though the crankset is a double? Can I simply avoid this combination and be
OK, or I'm I going to always have extra drivetrain friction because of a poor chainline?

The small/small or big/big combos are a BAD thing. If you avoid these gears, you'll be OK.

The 39/53 combo sees a bit of chain rubbing on the outer ring from about the third cog from smallest
down. If you MUST ride in these gears, there's usually a trim click in the left lever.

If you go to either Sheldon's site, or www.fixedgearfever.com you can find a gear inch or
progression chart to show you where the overlap is. That way, you avoid funky chainlines while
maintaining the same gear.

Mike

Jens: You *do* have correct chainline, and that's why it's scraping. You're running in as heavily
crossed-over gear combo as you can get, with the chain describing a diagonal line between the small
front and small rear cogs. Trimming the front derailleur probably won't help, because the chain is
most likely scraping against the large chainring as it heads towards the rear of the bike.

If you move the chainline out (using a longer spindle), you're going to have a very noisy drivetrain
when in your larger chainring and, worse yet, you'll find the chain falling off the inside of the
crank when you shift from the large to the small front chainring. That can be serious bad news and
wreck your day if it happens at the wrong time!

More than likely you'll find that 11/39 combo is close to something available when you're
on your 53t.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I decided to convert my Trek 5900 from a Triple to a Double. So I got a Double crankset, double
front & rear derailleurs, and an Ultegra double bottom bracket (109.5).

After setting it up I've found that the 39-11 combination causes the chain to rub on the inside of
the big chainring. I assume this is a chainline issue. Do I need to go back to using a Ultegra
triple BB (118.5) even though the crankset is a double? Can I simply avoid this combination and be
OK, or I'm I going to always have extra drivetrain friction because of a poor chainline?

thanks in advance,

Jens

Mike S. mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet said:

The small/small or big/big combos are a BAD thing. If you avoid these gears, you'll be OK.

Quoted message said:

The 39/53 combo sees a bit of chain rubbing on the outer ring from about the third cog from
smallest down. If you MUST ride in these gears, there's usually a trim click in the left lever.

The trim click won't help the situation of the chain rubbing the big ring when in the 39/11. That
rubbing is normal and, that combination should be avoided. The trim keeps the chain from rubbing
on the FD.

Art Harris

"Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike S. mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet said:

The small/small or big/big combos are a BAD thing. If you avoid these gears, you'll be OK.

Quoted message said:

The 39/53 combo sees a bit of chain rubbing on the outer ring from about

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

third cog from smallest down. If you MUST ride in these gears, there's usually a trim click in
the left lever.

The trim click won't help the situation of the chain rubbing the big ring when in the 39/11. That
rubbing is normal and, that combination should be avoided. The trim keeps the chain from rubbing
on the FD.

Interesting, do you really need an 11t?

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike S. mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet said:

The small/small or big/big combos are a BAD thing. If you avoid these gears, you'll be OK.

Quoted message said:

The 39/53 combo sees a bit of chain rubbing on the outer ring from about

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

third cog from smallest down. If you MUST ride in these gears, there's usually a trim click in
the left lever.

The trim click won't help the situation of the chain rubbing the big ring when in the 39/11.
That rubbing is normal and, that combination should be avoided. The trim keeps the chain from
rubbing on the FD.

Interesting, do you really need an 11t?

Yes. I use my 52x11 a lot more than I do my 30x32 granny. Neither one is used much, but the 30x32 is
"practically never", while the 52x11 is "occasionally".

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

Thanks Mike! I was curious about this because the symptoms of extreme combinations with the triple
were much different, i.e. the rubbing was on the cassette, not the chainring. I was concerned it
might be symptomatic of a more general drivetrain alignment problem.

I never use the extreme combinations in actual pedaling, but they're useful for quick chain
length checking.

thanks again,

Jens

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jens: You *do* have correct chainline, and that's why it's scraping. You're running in as heavily
crossed-over gear combo as you can get, with the chain describing a diagonal line between the
small front and small

rear

Quoted message said:

cogs. Trimming the front derailleur probably won't help, because the

chain

Quoted message said:

is most likely scraping against the large chainring as it heads towards

the

Quoted message said:

rear of the bike.

If you move the chainline out (using a longer spindle), you're going to

have

Quoted message said:

a very noisy drivetrain when in your larger chainring and, worse yet,

you'll

Quoted message said:

find the chain falling off the inside of the crank when you shift from the large to the small
front chainring. That can be serious bad news and

wreck

Quoted message said:

your day if it happens at the wrong time!

More than likely you'll find that 11/39 combo is close to something available when you're on
your 53t.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I decided to convert my Trek 5900 from a Triple to a Double. So I got a Double crankset, double
front & rear derailleurs, and an Ultegra double bottom bracket (109.5).

After setting it up I've found that the 39-11 combination causes the chain to rub on the inside
of the big chainring. I assume this is a chainline issue. Do I need to go back to using a
Ultegra triple BB (118.5) even though the crankset is a double? Can I simply avoid this
combination and be OK, or I'm I going to always have extra drivetrain friction because of a poor
chainline?

thanks in advance,

Jens

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks Mike! I was curious about this because the symptoms of extreme combinations with the triple
were much different, i.e. the rubbing was on the cassette, not the chainring. I was concerned it
might be symptomatic of a more general drivetrain alignment problem.

I never use the extreme combinations in actual pedaling, but they're useful for quick chain length
checking.

That the are...

Mike

Quoted message said:

thanks again,

Jens

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jens: You *do* have correct chainline, and that's why it's scraping. You're running in as
heavily crossed-over gear combo as you can get,

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the chain describing a diagonal line between the small front and small

rear

Quoted message said:

cogs. Trimming the front derailleur probably won't help, because the

chain

Quoted message said:

is most likely scraping against the large chainring as it heads towards

the

Quoted message said:

rear of the bike.

If you move the chainline out (using a longer spindle), you're going to

have

Quoted message said:

a very noisy drivetrain when in your larger chainring and, worse yet,

you'll

Quoted message said:

find the chain falling off the inside of the crank when you shift from

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

large to the small front chainring. That can be serious bad news and

wreck

Quoted message said:

your day if it happens at the wrong time!

More than likely you'll find that 11/39 combo is close to something available when you're on
your 53t.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I decided to convert my Trek 5900 from a Triple to a Double. So I got a Double crankset,
double front & rear derailleurs, and an Ultegra double bottom bracket (109.5).

After setting it up I've found that the 39-11 combination causes the chain to rub on the
inside of the big chainring. I assume this is a chainline issue. Do I need to go back to using
a Ultegra triple BB (118.5) even though the crankset is a double? Can I simply avoid this
combination and be OK, or I'm I going to always have extra drivetrain friction because of a
poor chainline?

thanks in advance,

Jens

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The small/small or big/big combos are a BAD thing. If you avoid these gears, you'll be OK.

Quoted message said:

The 39/53 combo sees a bit of chain rubbing on the outer ring from

about

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

third cog from smallest down. If you MUST ride in these gears,

there's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

usually a trim click in the left lever.

The trim click won't help the situation of the chain rubbing the big

ring

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when in the 39/11. That rubbing is normal and, that combination should

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

avoided. The trim keeps the chain from rubbing on the FD.

Interesting, do you really need an 11t?

Its going to rub a first position 12t or 13t too, so what difference does it make?

Mike

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike S. mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet said:

The small/small or big/big combos are a BAD thing. If you avoid these gears, you'll be OK.

Quoted message said:

The 39/53 combo sees a bit of chain rubbing on the outer ring from

about

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

third cog from smallest down. If you MUST ride in these gears,

there's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

usually a trim click in the left lever.

The trim click won't help the situation of the chain rubbing the big

ring

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when in the 39/11. That rubbing is normal and, that combination should

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

avoided. The trim keeps the chain from rubbing on the FD.

Interesting, do you really need an 11t?

Yes. Riding buddies call me "Torque-mada"

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. ;-)

--Jens

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike S. <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote:

> The small/small or big/big combos are a BAD thing. If you avoid these gears, you'll be OK.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The 39/53 combo sees a bit of chain rubbing on the outer ring from

about the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> third cog from smallest down. If you MUST ride in these gears,

there's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> usually a trim click in the left lever.

The trim click won't help the situation of the chain rubbing the big

ring

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when in the 39/11. That rubbing is normal and, that combination should

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

avoided. The trim keeps the chain from rubbing on the FD.

Interesting, do you really need an 11t?

Yes. Riding buddies call me "Torque-mada"

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. ;-)

--Jens

Dear Jens,

Like you, I run a stately 53 x 11. Pay no attention to those hamsters frantically scampering around
and spinning wildly.

Carl Fogel

"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<86bvb.6085> > > Interesting, do you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes. Riding buddies call me "Torque-mada"

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. ;-)

--Jens

Dear Jens,

Like you, I run a stately 53 x 11. Pay no attention to those hamsters frantically scampering
around and spinning wildly.

Carl Fogel

You only get so many pedal spins in a lifetime... then you're finished So you need to be economical
with them.

Incidentally, I've had a problem with the Dura-ace 11-23 cassettes. The 3rd and 4th smallest gears
seem to have a very slight grind to them. It seems to happen once per revolution like a bent tooth
or something. I first noticed it when I started using it on the trainer indoor. I tried a brand new
chain and a brand new cassette and had the same problem. I even tried a different wheel in case it
was a hub or axle issue, but the grind was still there.

No amount of tweaking barrel adjusters makes it go away. This does not happen with the DA
12-25 & 12-27 cassettes. Have you noticed this? I'm wondering if Shimano hasn't made some
defective cassetes.

-j

Jens-<< I decided to convert my Trek 5900 from a Triple to a Double. So I got a Double crankset,
double front & rear derailleurs, and an Ultegra double bottom bracket (109.5).

After setting it up I've found that the 39-11 combination causes the chain to rub on the inside of
the big chainring. I assume this is a chainline issue. >><BR><BR>

IT IS NOT A PROBLEM...with 9 cogs and little doodads on the big ring, you will experience this when
in small ring and smallish cogs. It is NOT a problem that needs any solution othert than not riding
cross chained.

Jens- << Do I need to go back to using a Ultegra triple BB (118.5) even though the crankset is a
double? >><BR><BR>

Ya do and your chainline will be awful...front der may not work at all, or at least poorly.

Jens- << Can I simply avoid this combination and be OK, or I'm I going to always have extra
drivetrain friction because of a poor chainline? >><BR><BR>

bing, bing, bing, we have a winner. Check your chainline , a line from the center of the crank to
the 5th cog up, it will be an amazing straight line, parallel to the top tube.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<86bvb.6085> > > Interesting, do you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes. Riding buddies call me "Torque-mada"

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. ;-)

--Jens

Dear Jens,

Like you, I run a stately 53 x 11. Pay no attention to those hamsters frantically scampering
around and spinning wildly.

Carl Fogel

You only get so many pedal spins in a lifetime... then you're finished So you need to be
economical with them.

Incidentally, I've had a problem with the Dura-ace 11-23 cassettes. The 3rd and 4th smallest gears
seem to have a very slight grind to them. It seems to happen once per revolution like a bent tooth
or something. I first noticed it when I started using it on the trainer indoor. I tried a brand
new chain and a brand new cassette and had the same problem. I even tried a different wheel in
case it was a hub or axle issue, but the grind was still there.

No amount of tweaking barrel adjusters makes it go away. This does not happen with the DA 12-25 &
12-27 cassettes. Have you noticed this? I'm wondering if Shimano hasn't made some defective
cassetes.

-j

Dear Jens,

No, I haven't noticed any odd gear-tooth problems, but my opinion on the matter is probably
worthless. I use ancient friction shifters and only a few gears. Even worse, they're 7-speed
cassettes, of which I have a fair number of spares.

Probably 80% of my riding is done in 53 x 11. Most of the rest is done in 39 x whatever the second
largest rear cog is, sometimes the third. My daily 15-mile ride is, from what I gather, peculiar,
but extremely pleasant.

I do notice, however, that Shimano rear cogs have various indents, scallops, and minor carvings
intended to help the chain shift. Possibly you have some kind of chain mis-match? I don't know
enough about this to say anything helpful, but luckily there are an awful lot of remarkably
knowledgeable and helpful fellows just aching to see questions like this.

Good luck,

Carl Fogel