Swim tuition legal question

Not sure it's wrong from a legal point of view, but I think it's wrong from
a moral one. Has she actually asked if the pool has a scheme set up she can
join, so she's not competing directly against their own teachers (who are
also trying to earn a living). The pool I work at, I teach one to one. The
client pays £15 a session and I get £10 of that. While I'm not happy with
that percentage, it does cover my entry, clients entry and any admin. I get
a nice sum deposited straight into my bank account with all the taxes
already done! If she did it this way, she would also benefit from the pools
advertising and already large client base of swimmers.

Charlie.

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My wife, a fully A.S.A qualified swim instructor, takes children on a one

to

Quoted message said:

one basis for half an hour. The local authority is now threatening to stop
her, can they do this?
Bearing in mind, her and the children she teaches have payed entry to the
pool, the parents have payed a spectator fee.
This is her job, she pays taxes, N.I etc, its all legit, can the local
council do this?

--
Regards
Colleen & John Hughes

You are in effect doing the same, my wife and the child have both paid
entry, over £5 combined.
She and another one to one instructor, have both been the instructors at the
pools own learn to swim sessions. This one to one tuition, is as well as the
pools own Saturday and Sunday group learn to swim sessions, so they do not
compete against the pools own sessions but alongside so to speak.

"Charlie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not sure it's wrong from a legal point of view, but I think it's wrong

from

Quoted message said:

a moral one. Has she actually asked if the pool has a scheme set up she

can

Quoted message said:

join, so she's not competing directly against their own teachers (who are
also trying to earn a living). The pool I work at, I teach one to one.

The

Quoted message said:

client pays £15 a session and I get £10 of that. While I'm not happy with
that percentage, it does cover my entry, clients entry and any admin. I

get

Quoted message said:

a nice sum deposited straight into my bank account with all the taxes
already done! If she did it this way, she would also benefit from the

pools

Quoted message said:

advertising and already large client base of swimmers.

Charlie.

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My wife, a fully A.S.A qualified swim instructor, takes children on a

one

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

one basis for half an hour. The local authority is now threatening to

stop

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

her, can they do this?
Bearing in mind, her and the children she teaches have payed entry to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pool, the parents have payed a spectator fee.
This is her job, she pays taxes, N.I etc, its all legit, can the local
council do this?

--
Regards
Colleen & John Hughes

Yes, but is there a way to do it through the sports centre? She *is*
competing with their swimming lessons. Is it not even worth talking to the
manager about and asking about it? you'd also get lots of benefits
including more insurance cover than the ISTA can give an individual.

Charlie.

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You are in effect doing the same, my wife and the child have both paid
entry, over £5 combined.
She and another one to one instructor, have both been the instructors at

the

Quoted message said:

pools own learn to swim sessions. This one to one tuition, is as well as

the

Quoted message said:

pools own Saturday and Sunday group learn to swim sessions, so they do not
compete against the pools own sessions but alongside so to speak.

"Charlie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not sure it's wrong from a legal point of view, but I think it's wrong

from

Quoted message said:

a moral one. Has she actually asked if the pool has a scheme set up she

can

Quoted message said:

join, so she's not competing directly against their own teachers (who

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also trying to earn a living). The pool I work at, I teach one to one.

The

Quoted message said:

client pays £15 a session and I get £10 of that. While I'm not happy

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that percentage, it does cover my entry, clients entry and any admin. I

get

Quoted message said:

a nice sum deposited straight into my bank account with all the taxes
already done! If she did it this way, she would also benefit from the

pools

Quoted message said:

advertising and already large client base of swimmers.

Charlie.

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My wife, a fully A.S.A qualified swim instructor, takes children on a

one

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

one basis for half an hour. The local authority is now threatening to

stop

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

her, can they do this?
Bearing in mind, her and the children she teaches have payed entry to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pool, the parents have payed a spectator fee.
This is her job, she pays taxes, N.I etc, its all legit, can the local
council do this?

--
Regards
Colleen & John Hughes

In article <[email hidden]>,

John said:

My wife, a fully A.S.A qualified swim instructor, takes children on a one to
one basis for half an hour. The local authority is now threatening to stop
her, can they do this?

Did the local authority (by which I guess you mean the pool manager)
mention why he wants her to stop? Was she interfering with other users
of the pool (say, by trying to reserve a section of the pool for her
private use)? Did he think she was creating a hazard?

Usually pool managers are quite happy to cooperate with - even encourage
- private instructors. But it has to be a two-way conversation.

Ross

Penn State University does not allow any private instruction in their
pools at any time, no matter how qualified the instructor. I think the
reason is simple business. They want you to hire the university's
teachers. The YMCA has agreements with their own and independent
instructors and I assume has some kind of payment from the private teachers.

Ruth Kazez

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John said:

My wife, a fully A.S.A qualified swim instructor, takes children on a one to
one basis for half an hour. The local authority is now threatening to stop
her, can they do this?

And yes. If a pool manager feels that someone is unduly interfering
with his patrons' use of the pool, or creating unsafe conditions, he can
eject that person from the pool. If the person returns and persists, he
can have the person arrested for trespassing. Even if the pool is
public, and even if the person has paid their fees.

If the pool is too crowded during normal hours, he can insist that
private instructors - just the same as private parties - conduct their
activities during less busy times. Often a manager will be happy to
help schedule such times. If he has to schedule times during off hours,
he can ask the instructors to help pay for the lifeguards and staff.

Someone else mentioned insurance. Yes, he also can insist that private
instructors carry their own insurance.

Ross

She is insured via ISTC, and the pool is very quiet during her hours of
instruction 4-6pm.
The issue started due to the pools own lifegaurds taking lessons after
finishing their shift and walking on poolside, and as you say "unduly
interfering with his patrons' use of the pool, or creating unsafe
conditions" these lifegaurds were not even qualified or insured to do so.

I agree we will have to sit down with the pool manager and discuss suitable
arrangments.
Thanks all for the info and comments.

"Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John said:

My wife, a fully A.S.A qualified swim instructor, takes children on a

one to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one basis for half an hour. The local authority is now threatening to

stop

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

her, can they do this?

And yes. If a pool manager feels that someone is unduly interfering
with his patrons' use of the pool, or creating unsafe conditions, he can
eject that person from the pool. If the person returns and persists, he
can have the person arrested for trespassing. Even if the pool is
public, and even if the person has paid their fees.

If the pool is too crowded during normal hours, he can insist that
private instructors - just the same as private parties - conduct their
activities during less busy times. Often a manager will be happy to
help schedule such times. If he has to schedule times during off hours,
he can ask the instructors to help pay for the lifeguards and staff.

Someone else mentioned insurance. Yes, he also can insist that private
instructors carry their own insurance.

Ross

The pool certainly has the right to limit it's uses. When I lived in
Austin, Texas, I had to register with the city as an instructor to use
the city pools for private lessons. In addition to paying entry fees
for the pool, I also had to pay a small amount for each lesson I
taught. There are a number of legal implications, and the pool needs
to know who is using it's facility for what purpose at what time.

Ryan
http://icoachswimming.com

Hi John,

If she is ASA qualified then she knows she should be aware of the Emergency
Action Plans and Normal Operating Procedure of the pool, which would
necessitate her talking with the pool manager.

Then, if she is conducting a private lesson it is reasonable for the pool to
expect her to hire a lane or the children's pool for that purpose. Having
said that, there is nothing they can do to stop one adult teaching one child
to swim - unless it contravenes the rules of the pool (which I can't see is
reasonable). Most pools nowerdays though want level 2 teachers (minimum)
teaching unsupervised.

Hope this helps
--
DrClean
www.DrClean.co.uk
The Best Fabric Cleaning Resource on the Web

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

She is insured via ISTC, and the pool is very quiet during her hours of
instruction 4-6pm.
The issue started due to the pools own lifegaurds taking lessons after
finishing their shift and walking on poolside, and as you say "unduly
interfering with his patrons' use of the pool, or creating unsafe
conditions" these lifegaurds were not even qualified or insured to do so.

I agree we will have to sit down with the pool manager and discuss
suitable
arrangments.
Thanks all for the info and comments.

"Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"John" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> My wife, a fully A.S.A qualified swim instructor, takes children on a

one to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> one basis for half an hour. The local authority is now threatening to

stop

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> her, can they do this?

And yes. If a pool manager feels that someone is unduly interfering
with his patrons' use of the pool, or creating unsafe conditions, he can
eject that person from the pool. If the person returns and persists, he
can have the person arrested for trespassing. Even if the pool is
public, and even if the person has paid their fees.

If the pool is too crowded during normal hours, he can insist that
private instructors - just the same as private parties - conduct their
activities during less busy times. Often a manager will be happy to
help schedule such times. If he has to schedule times during off hours,
he can ask the instructors to help pay for the lifeguards and staff.

Someone else mentioned insurance. Yes, he also can insist that private
instructors carry their own insurance.

Ross

Coach_Ryan said:

The pool certainly has the right to limit it's uses. When I lived in
Austin, Texas, I had to register with the city as an instructor to use
the city pools for private lessons. In addition to paying entry fees
for the pool, I also had to pay a small amount for each lesson I
taught. There are a number of legal implications, and the pool needs
to know who is using it's facility for what purpose at what time.

Similar issues exist with tennis courts on housing complexes. You have the
commercial concerns, and the legal ones. If there was a swimming accident,
the pool is likely to get sucked into the mess whether they had anything to
do with the instruction or not.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com