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sweets

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
20 October 2004
Last activity
25 October 2004
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Ronda
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  1. In article <[email hidden]>, DJ Delorie <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    (LCer09) said:

    Oh good lord! I *never* would have been successful if I had started Atkins
    while simultaneously plotting ways to somehow get away with eating the [censored]
    that made me fat in the first place. This really works for some people?

    If it's a choice between finding substitutes and NOT DIETING, which is
    better?

    I thought the OP was scared that the sweet cravings would continue
    indefinitely. I can understand this. My pre-LC diet was very pasta
    heavy, and it was hard for me to imagine being happy without ever eating it
    again, so I started out with a plan to have a small serving of pasta once a
    month, if I really wanted it. I was surprised that it was 3 months before
    I really wanted it, and I was even more surprised that when I ate it, it
    wasn't all that great anymore.

    The point is, and this is what is hard to grasp for some newbies, is that
    when you change what you eat, it changes what you WANT to eat. When you
    are addicted to sweets, it's hard to imagine that you can get to a point
    where you no longer crave them, but it CAN and DOES happen.

    --
    Michelle Levin
    http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

    I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

  2. DJ Delorie said:
    (LCer09) said:

    If you aren't ready to give up all that junk, you're not ready to
    honestly do it right and give it your best shot.

    Unless you're like my wife, who's LCing because she *has* to, not
    because she *wants* to, and so substitutes are part of maintaining a
    "quality of life" on a diet she's stuck with forever.

    maintaining, sure. but to start out with? if someone can't even give
    up candy for two weeks of induction, then they're not going to have very
    much success in the long run.

  3. (The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

    maintaining, sure. but to start out with? if someone can't even give
    up candy for two weeks of induction, then they're not going to have very
    much success in the long run.

    Personally, I agree that people should be strict for the first two
    weeks. But not everyone needs to be, and not everyone can. If you're
    careful about the sweets you choose, and prefer home-made treats to
    store bought, it can work.

  4. Quoted message said:
    (LCer09) said:

    Oh good lord! I *never* would have been successful if I had started Atkins
    while simultaneously plotting ways to somehow get away with eating the [censored]
    that made me fat in the first place. This really works for some people?

    If it's a choice between finding substitutes and NOT DIETING, which is
    better?

    I guess I just don't see finding ways to eat foods that made me fat "dieting".
    YMMV.
    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/159/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/188/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

  5. LCer09 said:

    I guess I just don't see finding ways to eat foods that made me fat
    "dieting". YMMV.

    When presented with the idea of going without foods to which one is
    addicted, for even a temporary period of time, panic sets in, and they go
    chasing substitutions for said foods. Those feelings are indeed
    understandable, because I also initially felt the same way about bread and
    sweets.

    However, I gave my body a chance, and let my body do its own job. I go for
    prolonged periods of time eating *only* green veggies, adequate proteins
    and increased oils. While I can sense the panic that the OP feels at the
    mere *thought* of going without sweets, trust me, body chemistry kicks in
    eventually, even more quickly than one might think.

    For generations before the invention of candy and the widespread circulation
    of sugar and refined grains, civilizations have sustained themselves and
    had lives. I just mentally placed myself in a time where such things
    simply did not exist, and [censored]! Suddenly the need to eat these things
    disappeared. I was filled and *technically* satisfied on real food! I
    even forget to eat. Even when I am reminded to eat (e.g. fixing my own
    children their meals) and think "OK, I should get something, too", if I
    don't do it right away, I completely forget!

    YMMV, but I gently wish to encourage the OP to give it an honest try. I can
    understand the trepidation. But give your body time to adjust.

    --
    "I'll babysit my children and my cat, but I staunchly refuse to babysit my
    appetite." -Crafting Mom
    * The above post is purely subjective, unless otherwise noted. Please
    respond accordingly.

  6. Crafting Mom said:
    LCer09 said:

    I guess I just don't see finding ways to eat foods that made me fat
    "dieting". YMMV.

    When presented with the idea of going without foods to which one is
    addicted, for even a temporary period of time, panic sets in, and they go
    chasing substitutions for said foods. Those feelings are indeed
    understandable, because I also initially felt the same way about bread and
    sweets.

    Some folks are addicted to certain foods and some aren't. The ones that
    aren't can take or leave any one type of food and don't understand the
    ones that are. The ones that are addicted panic and want to be among
    the ones that can take it or leave it.

    Twelve step programs were designed for more powerfull addictions than
    food addictions. No one is addicted to *all* types of food (oh great,
    a generalization, so it's bound to be wrong with someone). But plenty
    of people are addicted to a few types of foods or many types.

    The key is to figure out which is which for *you* individually and
    use judgement on how to react. For example I am very addicted to
    wheat. If I avoid wheat like an alcoholic avoids alcohol, I do well.
    On the other hand my problems with corn are much more mild. I can't
    handle Fritos but any less greasy and less salty corn is something
    I can handle in small amounts as long as it isn't more than a couple
    small servings per week.

    This kind of avoidance judgement took a long time to develop, though.
    At first I had to figure that whatever ended up being a problem was
    a food I'd have to avoid and at the start I didn't have a clue if
    it was going to be nothing but german chocolate mousse cake or
    everything from apples on. At the start that uncertainty was quite
    frightening. It was a large step of faith.

    Quoted message said:

    For generations before the invention of candy and the widespread circulation
    of sugar and refined grains, civilizations have sustained themselves and
    had lives. I just mentally placed myself in a time where such things
    simply did not exist, and [censored]! Suddenly the need to eat these things
    disappeared.

    Wonderfull imagery.


  7. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I guess I just don't see finding ways to eat foods that made me fat
    "dieting". YMMV.

    When presented with the idea of going without foods to which one is
    addicted, for even a temporary period of time, panic sets in, and they go
    chasing substitutions for said foods.

    Don't know who 'they' are. I certainly didn't. Bread, sugar and potatoes made
    me morbidly obese. I recognized this, and the fact that they had to GO. No if,
    and or but about it.
    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/159/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/188/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

  8. LCer09 said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I guess I just don't see finding ways to eat foods that made me fat
    "dieting". YMMV.

    When presented with the idea of going without foods to which one is
    addicted, for even a temporary period of time, panic sets in, and they go
    chasing substitutions for said foods.

    Don't know who 'they' are. I certainly didn't. Bread, sugar and potatoes
    made me morbidly obese. I recognized this, and the fact that they had to
    GO. No if, and or but about it.

    "They" are obviously the people for whom the shoe fits. I was simply
    addressing a certain theme among people for whom the initial thought of
    "giving up" certain foods for a certain amount of time, and the rationale
    behind what possibly drives them to seek substitutions without giving real
    food a chance.

    I think if you were the person who said "I guess I don't see finding ways to
    eat foods that made me fat "dieting"", you may read what I wrote and see
    that I was following up what you wrote and agreeing with you.

    I am sorry to confuse you.

    --
    "I'll babysit my children and my cat, but I staunchly refuse to babysit my
    appetite." -Crafting Mom
    * The above post is purely subjective, unless otherwise noted. Please
    respond accordingly.

  9. "LCer09" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When presented with the idea of going without foods to which one is
    addicted, for even a temporary period of time, panic sets in, and they go
    chasing substitutions for said foods.

    Don't know who 'they' are. I certainly didn't. Bread, sugar and potatoes


    made

    Quoted message said:

    me morbidly obese. I recognized this, and the fact that they had to GO. No


    if,

    Quoted message said:

    and or but about it.

    Well, I guess that makes you pretty special then 🙂

    Please, though, recognize that everybody in the world isn't *just like you*,
    that others may have vastly different issues to deal with, and as a result
    will need to use different strategies. Addressing their differences with
    contempt, labeling them as idiots or stupid (as you've done in other posts
    I've recently read) provides us with nothing but an indication of your...
    umm... small-mindedness.

    Consider this evaluation: The OP knows something about LC, but like all of
    us won't really understand how it works until she actually tries it. She's
    evaluated her strengths and weaknesses and has identified her love for
    certain carby/sugary foods as a potential threat to her success. She was
    faced with three alternatives at that point. (1) She could just forget the
    whole low carb thing and make yet another unsuccessful attempt at losing
    weight with some higher carb approach. (2) She could summon up a lot of
    bravado and tell herself she'll just tough it out, realizing this could be
    very difficult to impossible for her. Or, (3) she could try to find some
    ways, going in, to mitigate her weak points so that she'll not have to rely
    quite so much on near-preternatural will power.

    In fact, she chose (3), and based on the information she has at this moment
    it is the most logical choice. She really won't believe until she gets into
    it that changing what she eats can so radically reduce her cravings for
    sugar and carbs. The most useful thing to tell someone it that position,
    IMO, is how LC'ing reduces carb/sugar cravings.

    Also, if you go into LC with a long-term, lifestyle change approach, it
    kinda makes sense to look for appropriate foods to fill all the old niches
    your high carb comfort and celebration foods filled back in your high carb
    life. Most people who have been low-carbing a long time understand that, and
    have adopted a certain number of replacements or substitutes. Some of mine
    include LC ice cream instead of Baskin Robbins. LC jello with cream.
    Pancakes made with Atkins bake mix and topped with LC maple syrup, served
    with sausage and fried eggs. Pizza-on-a-plate with all the cheese, pepperoni
    and toppings I like, none of the crust. A slightly sweetened version of
    bread, made with Atkins mix, cubed in a bowl and topped with blueberries, lc
    maple syrup, and whipped cream (gooey dessert heaven). Wasa Fiber Rye
    crackers heaped with a creamy soft cheese. LC black cows made with iced diet
    root beer poured over a tablespoon of heavy cream. Lynne's chocolate or a
    commercial LC chocolate bar. Diet sodas. And of course, no-sugar cheesecake
    with a flaxseed/pecan crust. A lot of this is junky and lc versions of the
    same sort of food that made me fat. Other than the diet soda and Wasa with
    cheese, I don't eat any of these often. But they really hit the spot when
    I'm craving certain foods. Most people won't totally break the food habits
    of 20, 30, 50 years with will power alone. Strategies help, such as having
    these fall-back treats to use when you might otherwise end up face down in a
    box of donuts, in a sugar coma.

    HG

  10. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: sweets
    From: "Hannah Gruen" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/22/2004 10:21 AM Central Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    "LCer09" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When presented with the idea of going without foods to which one is
    addicted, for even a temporary period of time, panic sets in, and they go
    chasing substitutions for said foods.

    Don't know who 'they' are. I certainly didn't. Bread, sugar and potatoes


    made

    Quoted message said:

    me morbidly obese. I recognized this, and the fact that they had to GO. No


    if,

    Quoted message said:

    and or but about it.

    Well, I guess that makes you pretty special then 🙂

    Please, though, recognize that everybody in the world isn't *just like you*,
    that others may have vastly different issues to deal with, and as a result
    will need to use different strategies. Addressing their differences with
    contempt, labeling them as idiots or stupid (as you've done in other posts
    I've recently read) provides us with nothing but an indication of your...
    umm... small-mindedness.

    Excuse me? Who, exactly, did I recently label as a stupid idiot? Is my stating
    a rather dry fact (if you can't give up sweets, chips and soda, you can't do
    LC) something that makes you THAT upset? Then it would seem you have some
    personal issues to deal with here.

    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/159/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/188/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

  11. Thanks for good sense as usual, Hannah.

    One more point. When new people ask what to do about panic sugar cravings,
    a frequent answer is "Eat something else." That sounds flip, unless someone
    puts it more carefully, like "When I crave sugar, I quickly eat anything
    else I can get, to take the edge off legitimate hunger. Then there is not
    so much force behind the wish for sugar. If I fill my stomach with
    something else, anything else, then the sugar craving goes away or I can
    handle it."

    So for someone in early panic period, anything is better than real sugar --
    including whatever "faky" stuff it takes to help them make it through
    INduction. 🙂

    Skinny
    -----------------

    On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:21:52 -0400, Hannah Gruen wrote:

    /snip for length/

    Quoted message said:

    Some of mine
    include LC ice cream instead of Baskin Robbins. LC jello with cream.
    Pancakes made with Atkins bake mix and topped with LC maple syrup, served
    with sausage and fried eggs. Pizza-on-a-plate with all the cheese,


    pepperoni

    Quoted message said:

    and toppings I like, none of the crust. A slightly sweetened version of
    bread, made with Atkins mix, cubed in a bowl and topped with blueberries,


    lc

    Quoted message said:

    maple syrup, and whipped cream (gooey dessert heaven). Wasa Fiber Rye
    crackers heaped with a creamy soft cheese. LC black cows made with iced


    diet

    Quoted message said:

    root beer poured over a tablespoon of heavy cream. Lynne's chocolate or a
    commercial LC chocolate bar. Diet sodas. And of course, no-sugar


    cheesecake

    Quoted message said:

    with a flaxseed/pecan crust. A lot of this is junky and lc versions of


    the

    Quoted message said:

    same sort of food that made me fat. Other than the diet soda and Wasa


    with

    Quoted message said:

    cheese, I don't eat any of these often. But they really hit the spot when
    I'm craving certain foods. Most people won't totally break the food


    habits

    Quoted message said:

    of 20, 30, 50 years with will power alone. Strategies help, such as


    having

    Quoted message said:

    these fall-back treats to use when you might otherwise end up face down


    in a

    Quoted message said:

    box of donuts, in a sugar coma.

    HG

  12. "LCer09" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Excuse me? Who, exactly, did I recently label as a stupid idiot?

    If it wasn't you I apologize. It's hard to keep track these days, with all
    the negativity towards newbies these days. Your response wasn't in the least
    supportive, by the way. While technically true, it wasn't helpful. Obviously
    the OP knows she is going to have to give up carby snacks. Did you even read
    *my* post? She was looking for alternatives in hopes of having success with
    LC. She doesn't realize the extent to which LC will remove her cravings for
    sweets and carbs. I didn't really believe it until it happened to me, even
    though I'd read about it. I did not realize the extent to which my appetite
    for such foods was driven by what I was eating... i.e, too many carbs.
    *That's* what she needs to hear, along with a little encouragement.

    Quoted message said:

    Is my stating
    a rather dry fact (if you can't give up sweets, chips and soda, you can't


    do

    Quoted message said:

    LC) something that makes you THAT upset? Then it would seem you have some
    personal issues to deal with here.

    Does my pointing out that, in context, such a comment to a newbie is not
    only not helpful or supportive, but rather snotty, upset you to the point
    that you need to become an armchair psychologist and start diagnosing my
    "issues"?

    This used to be a pretty supportive ng, and still is in part. But there is
    really a lot of overt to not-quite-overt hostility that gets dispensed,
    mostly to people relatively new to lc'ing. Why is that?

    HG

  13. Quoted message said:

    This used to be a pretty supportive ng, and still is in part. But there is
    really a lot of overt to not-quite-overt hostility that gets dispensed,
    mostly to people relatively new to lc'ing. Why is that?

    Maybe you don't see 'support' the same way others do. I don't see coddling
    character flaws, or singing around the campfire in general as supportive.
    Dieting is difficult, losing weight is difficult, people should get use to it
    sooner instead of later IMHO. YMMV. I have yet to see a single newbie that
    starts out eating replacement [censored] actually make it. Perhaps I wasn't looking
    hard enough.
    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/159/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/188/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

  14. "LCer09" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Maybe you don't see 'support' the same way others do. I don't see coddling
    character flaws, or singing around the campfire in general as supportive.
    Dieting is difficult, losing weight is difficult, people should get use to


    it

    Quoted message said:

    sooner instead of later IMHO. YMMV. I have yet to see a single newbie that
    starts out eating replacement [censored] actually make it. Perhaps I wasn't


    looking

    Quoted message said:

    hard enough.

    Others? Are you seeing yourself as the representative mindset in this ng?
    LOL.

    I don't believe in endless coddling either, and a well-placed kick in the
    rear is sometimes in order, so long as it's accompanied by demonstrated
    concern for the recipient. The point is, I didn't see any indication of that
    concern in your post. And when it's someone new to LC'ing, they don't have
    the documented history that would even make that approach even logical or
    appropriate. Sometimes when you can't be supportive in a nice way, it's
    better to just not post at all, ya know?

    Actually, a lot of people start out eating "meal replacement [censored]" and
    "actually make it". People on this ng and elsewhere. Including me. Some have
    no problems with it, others find they need to cut back or out to lose at a
    decent rate and keep cravings at a low level. Most people reading Atkins
    probably think they will end up using that stuff more than they actually do
    in practice, however. That's just a guess. When you're first starting, it's
    natural to wonder how you'll be able to live without bread, or pasta, or
    candy, or whatever. Knowing that you can buy LC substitutes can be mentally
    helpful for many, although they may find they never need or want them. Plus
    they may think they taste nasty.

    HG

  15. Quoted message said:

    Others? Are you seeing yourself as the representative mindset in this ng?
    LOL.

    You complained about people being mean to the poor newbies. Apparently somebody
    was even calling them stupid, which you wrongly accused me of. Would not all
    these "mean" people be considered "others"?
    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/159/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/188/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

  16. "LCer09" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    You complained about people being mean to the poor newbies. Apparently


    somebody

    Quoted message said:

    was even calling them stupid, which you wrongly accused me of. Would not


    all

    Quoted message said:

    these "mean" people be considered "others"?

    I hope to heaven they never become representative of *this* group as a
    whole. We've always seemed to have our trolls, but it's been worse lately. I
    think sometimes just having even one consistent a*****e always tweaking the
    newbies kind of stimulates certain people to emulate. Most of them are
    probably nice folks in person, even the a****es, Maybe they get put down a
    lot IRL and so they can't resist a chance to do it to people they see as
    vulnerable, less knowledgeable than they are. The "kick the dog" syndrome.
    In a few cases I think it's been impatience, maybe that's it most of the
    time. I know I've told people to RTFM a time or two, and not all that kindly
    either.

    Anyway, I did go back and check and I had mixed you up with someone else who
    was apparently having a bad day or two. So I apologize for accusing you of
    insulting others, which you did NOT do. Not for tweaking you a bit about
    what you did write... lol. But it was nice to find you are not the meany I
    originally envisioned.

    HG

  17. Quoted message said:

    But it was nice to find you are not the meany I
    originally envisioned.

    Oh I can be mean. You should see me when people tell me I'll die because I
    don't eat bread and potatoes.
    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/159/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/188/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

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