Recumbent bicycles · Public discussion

SWB Stability?

Started by B. Sanders · · Last activity · 47 posts · 3,856 views

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Recumbent bicycles
Published
21 October 2003
Last activity
25 October 2003
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B. Sanders
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  1. Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Jeff Wills said:


    Golly-gee-whillickers...

    No it will not. The object will move in its plane of rotation PERPENDICULAR to the direction of
    the centripetal force, if the centripetal force is removed. Or has Newton's First Law become
    invalid?

    You're spending a lot time trying to teach me something *I know already*... but just because I can't
    cut 'n' paste from my elementary school physics books you're biting my head off.

    Sheesh. Give it a rest.

    Jeff

  2. I think that it is hard to generalize about the handling of SWB bikes. I have two Bentechs, SWB and
    LWB, and a Rans Tailwind (CLWB with 20-inch wheels). When I built the SWB Bentech I had a special
    fork made with reduced rake to increase the trail. The increased trail also increased the fork flop,
    but greatly reduced the sensitivity. Of the three bikes, the SWB seems the most stable at the speeds
    that I ride (12-15mph). The worst handling bike is the Tailwind, but this is because of the weight
    distribution and the tendency to lose traction on the front wheel in adverse road conditions.

    "B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SYelb.605663$cF.272162@rwcrnsc53...

    Quoted message said:

    Fred's recent crash on a SWB Vision stirred my thinking about SWB


    stability

    Quoted message said:

    in general.

    I love my 2000 RANS Rocket SWB/OSS; but it's pretty darned sporty. The


    first

    Quoted message said:

    few rides on the Rocket didn't feel very stable. The short wheelbase


    seemed

    Quoted message said:

    too short. The handling seemed a little too sporty and sensitive to me.


    (I

    Quoted message said:

    had ridden other SWB's before, including a Vision R40 like Fred's). Sensitive/sporty steering is
    exactly what you want when you're turning figure-8's in the parking lot, or negotiating a tricky
    turn on a narrow path; but when you're going 40+ MPH on a white-knuckle descent, the sensitivity
    of the SWB handling can cause some puckering of one's nether regions.

    I've gotten used to the steering sensitivity; but I still have to remind myself sometimes, such as
    when I'm taking a hand off the bar to swat bugs, shield my eyes from the sun, etc. If you shift
    your weight suddenly, and instinctively compensate by applying pressure against one side of the
    handlebars, you're asking for trouble. (BTW: This applies much more for


    OSS

    Quoted message said:

    than for USS.) This is one of the reasons that I prefer under seat


    steering

    Quoted message said:

    (USS). I rarely felt the same instabilities that I sense/note/experience


    on

    Quoted message said:

    the Rocket with over seat steering.

    Yesterday, while I was gliding along at 21mph or so on a smoothly-paved


    bike

    Quoted message said:

    path, I deliberately tugged/wiggled the Rocket's handlebars at various frequencies and amplitudes,
    to check stability and test the limits of handling. I could see that it didn't take much force to
    upset the


    steering;

    Quoted message said:

    but the bike did seem pretty stable within limits. Certain "wiggle frequencies" allowed much
    greater steering forces than others without destabilizing the bike. This is as expected: A bike is
    an inverted pendulum, basically.

    If there are folks who don't like the sensitive/sporty handling of an SWB,


    I

    Quoted message said:

    could definitely understand their point of view. Sometimes I think that another foot of wheelbase
    would be a good thing, especially at higher speeds. For my purposes, however, the Rocket does
    almost everything


    right,

    Quoted message said:

    and I can accept the tradeoffs in its design.

    -=Barry=- 2000 RANS Rocket

  3. A properly designed SWB bike should handle well. The problem is the 'design' part. A poorly designed
    LWB will still handle pretty well. Not so for a SWB.

    The latest CALPOLY Streamliner has a 37 inch wheelbase. It can sprint to 50 (well 40) mph and can be
    ridden easily at walking speed. However, It does have a lot of fork flop. You don't ride it with you
    finger tipe. But then who wants to ride bike or fly a jet with your finger tips.
    --
    Bill "Pop Pop" Patterson Retired and riding my front drive low racer and our M5 tandem.

    See some Bikes At:

    home.earthlink.netindex.html

    PC

    roadkillbill.comr135.html

    Class and Helicopter

    calpoly.edu~wpatters

    Reply to [email hidden]

  4. Bill Patterson said:


    A properly designed SWB bike should handle well. The problem is the 'design' part. A poorly
    designed LWB will still handle pretty well. Not so for a SWB.

    The latest CALPOLY Streamliner has a 37 inch wheelbase. It can sprint to 50 (well 40) mph and can
    be ridden easily at walking speed. However, It does have a lot of fork flop. You don't ride it
    with you finger tipe. But then who wants to ride bike or fly a jet with your finger tips.

    The two recumbents that I have ridden that the handling bothered so much that I did not want to even
    try to go fast were on different ends of the spectrum: a BikeE E2 with a stoker and an Aerocycle. My
    problem with the E2 was that it wanted to turn much more than I felt it should for the control
    input, while the Aerocycle lacked any sense of directional stability. Note that these impressions
    occurred after I had put in many miles on a RANS Rocket, dual 406-mm wheel Reynolds Wishbone RT, and
    an Earth Cycles Sunset, so it was not a case of newbie problems with SWB bikes.

    Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket,
    Earth Cycles Sunset and Dragonflyer

  5. Good points. The handling of the BikeE2 felt fine to me. I got some good and some bad reports from
    others. Comments like yours were that the bike is a little "bossy" at low speed. So, a person that
    is used to a very light handling bike will be put off. The force that you feel on the controls is
    partly due to handlebar width. When I proposed the strange geometry, I didn't expect the handlebar
    to be so narrow on the production machine. IMHO they should have made a normal stem that allowed us
    to change the handlebar to suit each individual.

    High speed problems may be a product of the willowy frame. I have heard that putting the cranks out
    of phase helps a lot.

    Tom's quote. (I hate messages with lots of quotes on the top. I want to read the reply first. )

    =========
    e two recumbents that I have ridden that the handling bothered so much that I did not want to even
    try to go fast were on different ends of the spectrum: a BikeE E2 with a stoker and an Aerocycle. My
    problem with the E2 was that it wanted to turn much more than I felt it should for the control
    input, while the Aerocycle lacked any sense of directional stability. Note that these impressions
    occurred after I had put in many miles on a RANS Rocket, dual 406-mm wheel Reynolds Wishbone RT, and
    an Earth Cycles Sunset, so it was not a case of newbie problems with SWB bikes.

    ============
    --
    Bill "Pop Pop" Patterson Retired and riding my front drive low racer and our M5 tandem.

    See some Bikes At:

    home.earthlink.netindex.html

    Class and Helicopter

    calpoly.edu~wpatters

    Reply to [email hidden]

  6. Bill Patterson said:


    Good points. The handling of the BikeE2 felt fine to me. I got some good and some bad reports from
    others. Comments like yours were that the bike is a little "bossy" at low speed. So, a person that
    is used to a very light handling bike will be put off. The force that you feel on the controls is
    partly due to handlebar width. When I proposed the strange geometry, I didn't expect the handlebar
    to be so narrow on the production machine. IMHO they should have made a normal stem that allowed
    us to change the handlebar to suit each individual....

    Interestingly enough, the BikeE E2 is one of the easiest recumbent bikes to ride when ridden solo -
    I was easily able to balance and turn at less than normal walking speed. In this case, weight
    distribution makes a huge difference in handling.

    Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket,
    Earth Cycles Sunset and Dragonflyer

  7. That is just the opposite of my experience. The bike is too responsive until the stoker
    climbs on board.

    Perhaps you like more responsive bikes than many of the rest of us. Or, the stoker wasn't
    sitting still.
    --
    Bill "Pop Pop" Patterson Retired and riding my front drive low racer and our M5 tandem.

    See some Bikes At:

    home.earthlink.netindex.html

    PC

    roadkillbill.comr135.html

    Class and Helicopter

    calpoly.edu~wpatters

    Reply to [email hidden]

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