SUV's

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Tom

Kunich) said:

[email hidden] (Patrick O'Grady) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Patrick O'Grady Mad Dog Media (who drives a 4WD truck)

So is it one of those fashionable 12 foot high monster trucks with 5' diameter tires on it? If
not, you haven't gotten the whole idea behind that SUV article.

No one saying that they shouldn't sell SUV's, just that most people that buy them are low down
scum buckets that should be taken out and horse whipped. Next year they'll all be driving Mini
Coopers but they'll still be the same worthless jerks. And there are plenty of morons that can't
afford to buy an SUV and you'll see them driving Gremlin hatchbacks.

Maybe I'm just upset because this was the small pickup day on the way to work. I was cut off by
three different small pickups driven by people who thought that they ought to be able to pull into
your lane even if you happen to be there at the same time. Want equates to need and need equates
to action.

Naw, Tom,

It's an '83 Toyota longbed, four-cylinder 22R engine, five-speed manual. It gets 23-25mpg, depending
upon the whims of heaven (headwind or tailwind). Its 2WD fraternal twin, also an '83 Toyota longbed,
still gets 27mpg despite having 270K on the odometer. But it only comes up to the bedrail on your
basic Dodge Ram diesel-dually penis extension, so I'm having trouble cutting people off around these
parts. I feel like an HO in a 1/24-car world unless I'm driving the '98 4WD Tacoma (23mpg), which
stays mostly parked these days.

Cheers,

Patrick O'Grady Mad Dog's Toyota Towne maddogmedia.comtoys.jpgOpen ↗

Danny Callen said:

That is "used to". I had a Ford Expedition. I now drive an Acura MDX which gets 25 MPG and is an
"Ultra Low Emission Vehicle". Both are great for kids,

Why? Mini-vans are bigger.

Quoted message said:

bikes,

Why? Mini-vans are bigger.

Quoted message said:

and those snowy New England Winters.

Why? Front-wheel drive is safer.

Quoted message said:

Once the kids got older, I got rid of the behemoth as I didn't need to carry so much junk back and
forth to Grandma's in the Berkshires.

You would have had more room in a mini-van.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't trade the Acura for anything.

Why? Cuz you look tougher in an MDX than a Caravan?

Greg
--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Patrick O'Grady) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Patrick O'Grady Mad Dog Media (who drives a 4WD truck)

So is it one of those fashionable 12 foot high monster trucks with 5' diameter tires on it? If
not, you haven't gotten the whole idea behind that SUV article.

No one saying that they shouldn't sell SUV's, just that most people that buy them are low down
scum buckets that should be taken out and horse whipped. Next year they'll all be driving Mini
Coopers but they'll still be the same worthless jerks. And there are plenty of morons that can't
afford to buy an SUV and you'll see them driving Gremlin hatchbacks.

Plenty of morons driving Gremlins.

what planet are you on? There are hardly any working Gremlins left due to their poor engineering and
advanced age, but I do agree with there being plenty of morons, a prime example being the author of
the post I'm replying to.

Danny Callen said:

"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Except that race (and nationality to a point) is something you have no choice over, and the car
you drive is a choice. Granted, that choice can have factors out of your control, but they're not
the same.

I think it would be possible to do a study showing what car is preferred

by

Quoted message said:

what race. But first you'd have to define race in America, which makes the study flawed off
the bat.

To bring this back on topic, how many bikes can you fit in an SUV? If you count the ones under the
wheels, I'd say it's quite a lot.

Adam

I get your point but stereotyping is stereotyping. I still can't believe I'm even discussing such
an ignorant article. I've seen just as many bad/aggressive drivers in little Honda Civics, Mini
Vans (especially Dodge), pickup trucks, etc as SUV's. The difference is that there is a stigma
associated with the SUV that it is a "gas hog", and bad for the environment. The bleeding hearts
want you to believe that it is "bad" to own one. Well guess what..it's not. My SUV gets better
gas mileage

The same gas mileage.

Quoted message said:

and is more environmentally friendly than many mini vans, Pickups, and sedans. I can fit about 4
bikes on top and at least two to four more inside depending on the amount of passengers I have.

You can fit 4 bikes on top and 4 to 6 inside a mini-van.

Greg

--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons

Here's my way to defy this bleak SUV trend: 5000 k / year driving, mainly to races; highway driving
- ford escort wagon $25 USD / 600 k at 90 kmh. 1997 model, with 40000 k on it. 20000 k / year
riding, with about 5000 k commuting

If more North Americans would follow this example, then we would have a very different society than
the sorry excuse of one that we have now.

--
--------------------------
Andre Charlebois BPE, MCSE4.0, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick www.TriNB.com "Kiem
Madvanen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

alternet.orgstory.htmlOpen ↗

Zub

600k * 0.6mile/k / $25 * $1.35 / gallon = 19.44miles per gallon.

Exactly how is this an improvement over and SUV?

"Andre Charlebois" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Here's my way to defy this bleak SUV trend: 5000 k / year driving, mainly to races; highway
driving - ford escort wagon $25 USD / 600 k at 90 kmh. 1997 model, with 40000 k on it. 20000 k /
year riding, with about 5000 k commuting

If more North Americans would follow this example, then we would have a very different society
than the sorry excuse of one that we have now.

--
--------------------------
Andre Charlebois BPE, MCSE4.0, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick www.TriNB.com "Kiem
Madvanen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

alternet.orgstory.htmlOpen ↗

Zub

Boyd Speerschneider said:

600k * 0.6mile/k / $25 * $1.35 / gallon = 19.44miles per gallon.

Exactly how is this an improvement over and SUV?

None over DC's Acura MDX. But twice that of the behemoths that get 8 to 10 mpg.

But my Escort got much better gas mileage than that. I don't know if there's a typo below but if
there isn't Andre should be taking his Escort in to see what the problem is.

Greg

Quoted message said:

"Andre Charlebois" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Here's my way to defy this bleak SUV trend: 5000 k / year driving, mainly to races; highway
driving - ford escort wagon $25 USD / 600 k at 90 kmh. 1997 model, with 40000 k on it. 20000 k /
year riding, with about 5000 k commuting

If more North Americans would follow this example, then we would have a very different society
than the sorry excuse of one that we have now.

--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons

"Boyd Speerschneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

600k * 0.6mile/k / $25 * $1.35 / gallon = 19.44miles per gallon.

Exactly how is this an improvement over and SUV?

he's talking about his 20,000 kilometers/year riding his bike.

re:

Quoted message said:

As a former SUV owner, I can saw I've reformed and now drive a car (WRX)- now, when I drive over
things, its relatively easy to tell what/who they are~

Totally agree! I've been driving my WRX for a year now, and it's put the FUN back in driving (so
much so that I've had to visit www.trafficschool.com once).

My brother came out for a visit last month. He has a landscape business in Dallas, and drives mostly
enormous pickup trucks. His wife owns a full-size Toyota Avalon. He had such a blast driving my car,
that he's considering getting one himself.

I think a lot of those folks driving the giant-sized Ford Excretions, and GMC Drill-the-Yukon class
vehicles have gotten so used to "steering" their bloated land yachts that they've completely
forgotten what fun it is to really "drive" a quick, responsive car on a windy mountain road. Sadly,
many of them do try to drive them like sports cars...thus, the rollover statistics.

Gary German

Quoted message said:

See what happens when I get caught up on work? I get sucked into a thread on RBR that isn't even
about bike racing.

Adam

So where's the latest bike.com article? My fredly ass needs some training tips so I can break out of
cat4 this year.

"BBC3" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9MjT9.12719$3v.2019@sccrnsc01...

Quoted message said:

McCoughan said:

an interesting factoid related to this article: I heard to that for 2002 tax purposes, there is
a "large SUV" loophole which states that if you bought a large SUV last year, you'd be able to
write off the entire purchase because the vehicle can be used for work-related driving.

Here is the article, however I believe this is true only if you use a Schedule C.

Loophole In Tax Code Means Big Tax Breaks For SUV Buyers komotv.com22303.htmOpen ↗

BTW, in response to this inane thread -- [censored] that endanger the lives

of

Quoted message said:

cyclists do not limit themselves to one vehicle type. I really can't consider this a
joking matter.

--
Bill

I mostly work with non-profits now, so I'll concede a measure of rust in this area, but ten minutes
on both the IRS sites and the tax research sites doesn't support anything close to what's in the
article other than the 179 deduction (deduction, not credit - notice how only the quoted 'end-user'
used the term credit, not the article, not the tax accountant [and whatever that is - a CPA or
enrolled agent would have used their credentials]?), which generally is limited to $ 24,000. Bolster
that with accelerated first year depreciation available on most tangible properties and you're up to
maybe the $ 32,000 mentioned, as a deduction. And you give it up as basis and/or future deduction in
the process. When money cost 2-4%, not a big deal UNLESS you are using it to cut profit to avoid tax
penalties or self-employment taxes. Usually worth doing, but not the give-away that it appears in
the article (that also casually fails to mention the code or form - real in-depth reporting here).
That exagerrated amount the government is losing is the difference imagined between the depreciation
taken on an imaginary needed F150 with big six, stick and cab cover (more or less $ 17,500) and that
new imaginary Lincoln or Lexus SUV (wouldn't know price - once you get past a convertible Viggen,
I've spent my money - $ 60,000?).

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA)

lol.. "www.trafficshool.com" - I'm sure I'll be there soon enough!

I understand his feeling - I became really interested in a WRX after driving in a friends. I was
amazed when I switched to the sporty WRX from a Nissan Pathfinder- I actually enjoy driving now.
While I dont drive too dangerously, its great to drive a responsive and fast car..

I've really gotten into my subaru - I've turned into a bit of a WRC rally geek now!! I wont stray
from the thread too much, but you may like these: wrc.comwrc.comOpen ↗
rally.racing-live.comenOpen ↗ i-club.comi-club.comOpen ↗

enjoy,

Sean

"Gary German" <gary_g@charter_NOSPAM_.net> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

re:

Quoted message said:

As a former SUV owner, I can saw I've reformed and now drive a car (WRX)- now, when I drive over
things, its relatively easy to tell what/who they are~

Totally agree! I've been driving my WRX for a year now, and it's put the FUN back in driving (so
much so that I've had to visit www.trafficschool.com once).

My brother came out for a visit last month. He has a landscape business in Dallas, and drives
mostly enormous pickup trucks. His wife owns a full-size Toyota Avalon. He had such a blast
driving my car, that he's considering getting one himself.

I think a lot of those folks driving the giant-sized Ford Excretions, and GMC Drill-the-Yukon
class vehicles have gotten so used to "steering" their bloated land yachts that they've completely
forgotten what fun it is to really "drive" a quick, responsive car on a windy mountain road.
Sadly, many of them do try to drive them like sports cars...thus, the rollover statistics.

Gary German

Gary German' gary_g@charter_NOSPAM_.net said:

I think a lot of those folks driving the giant-sized Ford Excretions, and GMC Drill-the-Yukon class
vehicles have gotten so used to "steering" their bloated land yachts that they've completely
forgotten what fun it is to really "drive" a quick, responsive car on a windy mountain road. Sadly,
many of them do try to drive them like sports cars...thus, the rollover statistics.

Exactly. "Safe" isn't the word I'd use to describe a vehicle that can't dodge a paper bag on the
highway without flipping, yet doesn't have to meet federal rollover protection standards.

I'd buy an SUV if they were lower and met passenger car safety standards. Too bad Buick discontinued
the Roadmaster wagon.

-Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen

"Gary German" <gary_g@charter_NOSPAM_.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think a lot of those folks driving the giant-sized Ford Excretions, and GMC Drill-the-Yukon
class vehicles have gotten so used to "steering" their bloated land yachts that they've completely
forgotten what fun it is to really "drive" a quick, responsive car on a windy mountain road.
Sadly, many of them do try to drive them like sports cars...thus, the rollover statistics.

Gary German

You mean like the idiot that thought he was Petter Soberg and almost took a group of us out while we
were going down a canyon road and he was coming up, overdriving his WRX Imprezza and came across the
center line by about 5 feet? Dave

Danny Callen said:

"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but Allison's mom bought it for her when she was in college, _and_

it

Quoted message said:

still got 25 mpg. Before we met, so I take no blame.

It died at 106,000 miles. Overheated, blown engine. We just got a Toyota Echo, so now I can be
really self-righteous. (I do still have the '84

diesel

Quoted message said:

Merc.)

Danny has some huge boat of an SUV, but I can't remember what it is.

Adam

That is "used to". I had a Ford Expedition. I now drive an Acura MDX which gets 25 MPG

You must have one of the magic ones. They're listed at 17/23. Meaning the only time you see 23 mpg
is when driving under 55mph downhill with a tailwind.

Greg
--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons

"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Except that race (and nationality to a point) is something you have no choice over, and the car
you drive is a choice. Granted, that choice can have factors out of your control, but they're
not the same.

I think it would be possible to do a study showing what car is preferred

by

Quoted message said:

what race. But first you'd have to define race in America, which makes

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

study flawed off the bat.

To bring this back on topic, how many bikes can you fit in an SUV? If

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

count the ones under the wheels, I'd say it's quite a lot.

Adam

I get your point but stereotyping is stereotyping. I still can't believe

I'm

Quoted message said:

even discussing such an ignorant article. I've seen just as many bad/aggressive drivers in little
Honda Civics, Mini Vans (especially

Dodge),

Quoted message said:

pickup trucks, etc as SUV's. The difference is that there is a stigma associated with the SUV that
it is a "gas hog", and bad for the

environment.

Quoted message said:

The bleeding hearts want you to believe that it is "bad" to own one. Well guess what..it's not. My
SUV gets better gas mileage and is more environmentally friendly than many mini vans, Pickups, and
sedans. I can

fit

Quoted message said:

about 4 bikes on top and at least two to four more inside depending on the amount of
passengers I have.

I have a very large truck that gets 10-12 mpg. I need the hauling capability and the 4WD capability.

It is an environmental menace in terms of gas mileage and I pity the poor soul who gets into a
collision with a 7,000lb. vehicle. The tone of the article is over the top, but face it, conspicuous
consumption is the reason most people buy these things.

"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I now drive an Acura MDX which gets 25 MPG and is an "Ultra Low Emission Vehicle".

17/23 MPG EPA (from Acura web site)

I have yet to meet an SUV owner who doesn't overstate MPG.

Zub

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Adam Hodges Myerson said:

It died at 106,000 miles. Overheated, blown engine. We just got a Toyota Echo, so now I can be
really self-righteous. (I do still have the '84

diesel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Merc.)

First off, I have to complement the original poster on an exceptional troll. Well done!!

A friend in the auto industry once told me that the environmentally responsible thing to do
with respect to cars was to drive whatever you had into the ground rather than create the
demand for another

Like my current '84 Jetta with roof racks already been ripped off by a low motel overhang after a
mind-numbing personal finish at Pine Flats RR.

192,000 miles (192K!) and still 30 miles/gallon.

Quoted message said:

car. Regardless of the type of car represented in the additional demand or what you were currently
driving. This doesn't address the issue of the threat that huge vehicles present to other drivers
and cyclists, but his point was that the waste and pollution associated with production far
outpaced those associated with operation.

Maybe he was just rationalizing his love of older, large cars. But he did keep them running long
and well.

And of course, substituting bike trips for car trips is far better still. But if 106K represents
the max you could have gotten out of the Kia then that was the right thing to do.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

In article said:

lol.. "www.trafficshool.com" - I'm sure I'll be there soon enough!

I understand his feeling - I became really interested in a WRX after driving in a friends. I was
amazed when I switched to the sporty WRX from a Nissan Pathfinder- I actually enjoy driving now.
While I dont drive too dangerously, its great to drive a responsive and fast car..

I've really gotten into my subaru - I've turned into a bit of a WRC rally geek now!! I wont stray
from the thread too much, but you may like these: wrc.comwrc.comOpen ↗
rally.racing-live.comenOpen ↗ i-club.comi-club.comOpen ↗

A friend told me that there are versions of the WRX in Japan that have different engines and
transmissions, which are far more sport oriented than the ones we can get in the USA. He knows
someone in Milpitas, Calif. who could get one of the engine/tranny sets for him...

--
tanx, Howard

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

For some people, quantity IS quality...

"Danny Callen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I get your point but stereotyping is stereotyping. I still can't believe I'm even discussing such
an ignorant article. I've seen just as many bad/aggressive drivers in little Honda Civics, Mini
Vans (especially Dodge), pickup trucks, etc as SUV's. The difference is that there is a stigma
associated with the SUV that it is a "gas hog", and bad for the environment. The bleeding hearts
want you to believe that it is "bad" to own one. Well guess what..it's not. My SUV gets better
gas mileage and is more environmentally friendly than many mini vans, Pickups, and sedans. I can
fit about 4 bikes on top and at least two to four more inside depending on the amount of
passengers I have.

You know I respect your opinion Adam but we'll probably never agree on this one....

Danny Callen

I agree, I live in SoCal and that article pretty much describes all drivers here, I would also like
to see a comparison of just how many women to men drive SUV's here. There is an awful lot of women
SUV drivers in So Cal. I have had far more bad experiences with people in cars than with "monster"
SUV's. They always say "big truck, little [censored]" I think the writer of the article is suffering from
just plain little [censored] syndrome. Dave