SUV Protest

Claire Petersky said:

"Nuck 'n Futz" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's no excuse for damaging, defacing OR DISABLING another
person's property.

Period.

Quoted message said:

How do you feel about people who damage everyone's (vs. "another
person's) property? After all, we all have a common share in the air
we breathe. There are lots of people who damage it every day. Do you
believe that, because it belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one?
How do we go about dealing with those who would damage, deface, or
disable something that we all have a share in?

So who gets to decide? There are emissions standards that all vehicles (at
least in the US) have to meet -- standards set by democratically elected
officials. You don't like it? Vote in better people.

Ever stand near a Harley when someone starts it as loudly as they possibly
can? Or like Wog mentioned, ever inhale near a leaf-blower?

All I'm saying is that flattening the tires of some stranger's Explorer is a
cowardly way of expressing one's holier-than-thou self.

N&F

Quoted message said:

Nuck 'n Futz said:

Quoted message said:

There's no excuse for damaging, defacing OR DISABLING another person's
property.

Period.

Really?

If a vehicle driver were in the process of trying to run me over, I'd
feel very justified in disabling his property, if there were a way.

Frank, I think this is an argumentum ad absurdum. There is a huge
difference between a protest and self defence. It is silly to lump the
two together.

Quoted message said:

If a Harley driver were running without mufflers at all hours of the
night, deliberately waking all those who were trying to sleep, I'd
probably feel the same way.

But here the law would clearly disagree with you!

[email hidden] wrote (ridiculous stuff deleted):

Quoted message said:

To get back to the subject of this SUV protest, I wouldn't go around
letting the air out of their tires. But I can see why some might
consider it a valid method of protest. It's similar to a case I've
heard of, where wheelchair-bound guy went around letting air out of
tires of cars parked illegally in handicapped spaces.

How about calling or flagging down the cops and getting the miscreant a $300
ticket? How about KNOWING that the person was "illegally" parked and didn't
just lose or forget to display their placket?

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:17:03 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, a scud enslaved nobody,

Nuck 'n Futz said:

There's no excuse for damaging, defacing OR DISABLING another person's
property.

Period.

Go soak.

What's your excuse for polluting my neighbourhood or killing my pets
and friends with your noisey stinking ugly fossil burners?

CARS SUCK!
--
zk

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:06:39 GMT, <[email hidden]>,
another scud enslaved nobody, "Nuck 'n Futz" <[email hidden]> piddled:

Quoted message said:

All I'm saying is that flattening the tires of some stranger's Explorer is a
cowardly way of expressing one's holier-than-thou self.

How do feel about hit-and-run?

Whether it results in just minor property damage to your shiney scud
or death or injury to pedestrians and cyclists, about twenty percent
of you scud slaves prove it doesn't take backbone to be assholesl
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:06:39 GMT,
another scud enslaved nobody, "Nuck 'n Futz" piddled:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

{Nice ASSumption, BTW; bet you bought more gas in last month than I.}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All I'm saying is that flattening the tires of some stranger's
Explorer is a cowardly way of expressing one's holier-than-thou self.

Quoted message said:

How do feel about hit-and-run?

I thought the OP (and/or subsequent) talked about people flattening tires of
SUVs and leaving pamphlets explaining why. How did that morph into hit &
run?!?

Quoted message said:

Whether it results in just minor property damage to your shiney scud
or death or injury to pedestrians and cyclists, about twenty percent
of you scud slaves prove it doesn't take backbone to be assholesl

No idea what that even means.

N&F

wafflycat said:

Article in The Times this morning.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1778863,00.html

"Ecowarriors go into battle against 4x4s - with cycle pumps"

Includes...

"DRIVERS who park gasguzzling 4x4s overnight in Paris are receiving an
unpleasant surprise in the morning: flat tyres. A gang of young activists
are deflating the tyres of what they regard as anti-social urban tanks which
clog the narrow streets of the Left Bank."

"To the amazement of furious owners, the police say that it is not a crime
because property is not damaged. "We have had complaints, but it is not
clear that any offence is being committed," said an officer at the sixth
arrondissement."

"They expel the air slowly without setting off the vehicles' alarms, fixing
open bicycle pump hoses to the tyre valves and returning later to collect
their equipment. They leave a leaflet explaining their action."

Cheers, helen s

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense. If I happened to catch them would *I* arrest them?
Probably not. I would however make them pump up all the tires they'd
flattened using the same bicycle pumps they'd used to flatten them
before sending them home exhausted to Mommy and Daddy. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

gds said:

Quoted message said:

Nuck 'n Futz said:

Quoted message said:

There's no excuse for damaging, defacing OR DISABLING another person's
property.

Period.

Really?

If a vehicle driver were in the process of trying to run me over, I'd
feel very justified in disabling his property, if there were a way.

Frank, I think this is an argumentum ad absurdum. There is a huge
difference between a protest and self defence. It is silly to lump the
two together.

I was merely pointing out that the phrase "No excuse ... period" was
pretty dumb. There certainly can be plenty of excuses. I just picked
one that nobody could reasonable argue against.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If a Harley driver were running without mufflers at all hours of the
night, deliberately waking all those who were trying to sleep, I'd
probably feel the same way.

But here the law would clearly disagree with you!

Of course. And of course, there are times when laws are violated for
causes so moral and good that prosecution is rightly deemed impossible.

I'm not saying this anti-SUV prank is such a cause. But we need to be
careful about dealing in absolutes.

- Frank Krygowski

Nuck 'n Futz said:

[email hidden] wrote (ridiculous stuff deleted):

Quoted message said:

To get back to the subject of this SUV protest, I wouldn't go around
letting the air out of their tires. But I can see why some might
consider it a valid method of protest. It's similar to a case I've
heard of, where wheelchair-bound guy went around letting air out of
tires of cars parked illegally in handicapped spaces.

How about calling or flagging down the cops and getting the miscreant a $300
ticket?

Sure, that's the proper way to do it. Of course, flagging won't work,
because you won't see a cop in time. But phoning is certainly proper.
And we must be proper!

And the dispatcher will get the patrol car on the radio. And,
depending where the cop is and what he's involved in, he'll be there
in, oh, 20 minutes or so. By which time the miscreant will be out of
the handicapped space with his magazine and pack of cigs, and well into
the next jurisdiction.

And of course, when the cop arrives, you can give him the license
number, the description of the car and the description of the driver.
And the cop will duly note it down, and probably say "If we catch him
doing it again, we'll have a record of this offense too." IOW, they
just don't extradite for those sorts of offenses.

And anyway, the guy won't get caught doing it again in that
jurisdiction. The odds are just too slim. He'll do it again any time
he's in a hurry, or feeling lazy, and the most he'll suffer are perhaps
some glares from passers-by.

So as usual, the scofflaws will do what they want, because society has
gotten so over-polite that any negative feedback is frowned upon, and
the risk of legal punishment is so small.

Quoted message said:

How about KNOWING that the person was "illegally" parked and didn't
just lose or forget to display their placket?

If that were the case, I bet the person would never make that mistake
again. But you and I know that it's rarely the case.

Personally, I think a little minor, harmless, below-the-legal-radar
vigilante justice can be valuable.

- Frank Krygowski

Bob said:

BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense.

Hmm. I'm surprised letting the air out of tires could _ever_ qualify
as a felony. Care to give the details?

- Frank Krygowski

wafflycat said:

Article in The Times this morning.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1778863,00.html

"Ecowarriors go into battle against 4x4s - with cycle pumps"

Includes...

"DRIVERS who park gasguzzling 4x4s overnight in Paris are receiving an
unpleasant surprise in the morning: flat tyres. A gang of young activists
are deflating the tyres of what they regard as anti-social urban tanks which
clog the narrow streets of the Left Bank."

"To the amazement of furious owners, the police say that it is not a crime
because property is not damaged. "We have had complaints, but it is not
clear that any offence is being committed," said an officer at the sixth
arrondissement."

"They expel the air slowly without setting off the vehicles' alarms, fixing
open bicycle pump hoses to the tyre valves and returning later to collect
their equipment. They leave a leaflet explaining their action."

Cheers, helen s

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense. If I happened to catch them would I arrest them?
Probably not. I would however make them pump up all the tires they'd
flattened using the same bicycle pumps they'd used to flatten them
before sending them home exhausted to Mommy and Daddy. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

wafflycat said:

Article in The Times this morning.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1778863,00.html

"Ecowarriors go into battle against 4x4s - with cycle pumps"

Includes...

"DRIVERS who park gasguzzling 4x4s overnight in Paris are receiving an
unpleasant surprise in the morning: flat tyres. A gang of young activists
are deflating the tyres of what they regard as anti-social urban tanks which
clog the narrow streets of the Left Bank."

"To the amazement of furious owners, the police say that it is not a crime
because property is not damaged. "We have had complaints, but it is not
clear that any offence is being committed," said an officer at the sixth
arrondissement."

"They expel the air slowly without setting off the vehicles' alarms, fixing
open bicycle pump hoses to the tyre valves and returning later to collect
their equipment. They leave a leaflet explaining their action."

Cheers, helen s

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense. If I happened to catch them would *I* arrest them?
Probably not. I would however make them pump up all the tires they'd
flattened using the same bicycle pumps they'd used to flatten them
before sending them home exhausted to Mommy and Daddy. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:23:36 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, scud slave, "Nuck 'n Futz"

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:06:39 GMT,
another scud enslaved nobody, "Nuck 'n Futz" piddled:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

{Nice ASSumption, BTW; bet you bought more gas in last month than I.}

You lose, nobody. I haven't bought gas since 1998.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All I'm saying is that flattening the tires of some stranger's
Explorer is a cowardly way of expressing one's holier-than-thou self.

Quoted message said:

How do feel about hit-and-run?

I thought the OP (and/or subsequent) talked about people flattening tires of
SUVs and leaving pamphlets explaining why. How did that morph into hit &
run?!?

You brought up cowardice. I pointed out that statistically about one
in five of you scud slaves are irresponsible chikenshit slime. At
least these Parisian pranksters are leaving their calling cards in
vain hope that you caged goons might clue in.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whether it results in just minor property damage to your shiney scud
or death or injury to pedestrians and cyclists, about twenty percent
of you scud slaves prove it doesn't take backbone to be assholesl

No idea what that even means.

It means that you [censored] are whining widdle worms when you're not
blustering, bullying or boasting. Hit-and-run represents ~17% of MV
collisions and that number is rising. It's a repugnant state you've
wrought.
--
zk

15 Sep 2005 18:28:43 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,
"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Ecowarriors? Young activists? Horse hockey. They are most likely simply
typical kids acting out their antisocial angst. BTW, in Illinois we'd
simply call them heads (a cop term for arrestee) because here what they
are doing is a class A misdemeanor. It's a class 4 felony on a
subsequent offense.

Is their any offence committed by letting the air out of someone's
bicycle tires? Would such a complaint even be seriously entertained?
--
zk

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Sorry for the double post. I gave the first about a half hour before
: firing the second ... and then they both popped through. I issued a
: cancel on the one, but I don't think cancels are honored as well as
: they were in the good old days. Sorry again.
:
That's OK- seeing you call people imbeciles and then double post is reward
enough.

Claire Petersky said:

How do you feel about people who damage everyone's (vs. "another person's)
property? After all, we all have a common share in the air we breathe. There
are lots of people who damage it every day. Do you believe that, because it
belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one? How do we go about dealing with
those who would damage, deface, or disable something that we all have a
share in?

I'm wondering how you're managing to post on the 'net without using
electricity.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Quoted message said:

society has
gotten so over-polite

What society are you living in?

Quoted message said:

Personally, I think a little minor, harmless, below-the-legal-radar
vigilante justice can be valuable.

In my 'community' not so long ago, a dude was shot in
the head for letting the air out of someone's tire.

Anyway, what a sniveling weasel way to sit in judgment
on total strangers, letting air out of SUV tires. I
can see it if the driver swerves at you or
something malicious like that, sure, stab all
the f'n tires with a Gerber knife. But just for driving
the wrong kind of car as determined by the self-appointed
urban hipster large-car defamation brigade? Most of whom
undoubtedly grew up coddled and suckled by huge car cheap-
oil America themselves? I can see some jack-off johnny-come-
lately fixie convert letting the air out of the tire on my
obscenely large Chevy truck when I take it out for its
semi-annual chug around the neighborhood. How could he
know I haven't driven the thing once in the past 5 months?
He didn't bother to do that research. I wouldn't shoot the
[censored], but I would probably attempt to beat him with
my fists, and he would deserve it. (I would probably know
the guy too, so it could be a little awkward.)

Robert

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:42:21 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

How do you feel about people who damage everyone's (vs. "another person's)
property? After all, we all have a common share in the air we breathe. There
are lots of people who damage it every day. Do you believe that, because it
belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one? How do we go about dealing with
those who would damage, deface, or disable something that we all have a
share in?

I'm wondering how you're managing to post on the 'net without using
electricity.
I'm wondering how you're managing to post on the 'net without using
electricity.

Pedal power can easily maintain a notebook battery.

Not all electricity generation spews green house gasses - hydro, wind
and solar for instance. There are people online who do live off the
grid, ya know.
--
zk

15 Sep 2005 23:52:40 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] postured:
\whack

Quoted message said:

But just for driving
the wrong kind of car as determined by the self-appointed
urban hipster large-car defamation brigade?

Cars need to be put in proper perspective rather than the exalted
status they enjoy now. Remember when smoking was sexy? People finally
clued in that it was a deadly scam and society's perspective changed.
It's well past the time car culture be de constructed. It's a deadlier
scam than smoking.

All the die-hard scud slaves take cars so personally their priorities
are totally warped.

CARS SUCK! and so do _all_ the [censored] who defend that sickness that
is the status quo.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't shoot the
[censored], but I would probably attempt to beat him with
my fists, and he would deserve it.

You're one sick [censored].
--
zk

In rec.bicycles.misc Mark Hickey said:

Claire Petersky said:

How do you feel about people who damage everyone's (vs. "another person's)
property? After all, we all have a common share in the air we breathe. There
are lots of people who damage it every day. Do you believe that, because it
belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one? How do we go about dealing with
those who would damage, deface, or disable something that we all have a
share in?

I'm wondering how you're managing to post on the 'net without using
electricity.

No telecybernetic powers necessary, Seattle is 91% hydro and wind power.
Additionally IIRC, one has the option of only buying 'green' energy,
which Claire might or might not subscribe to.

http://www.seattle.gov/light/aboutus/customerguide/#PowSup

Fuel Mix for Year 2003

Generation Type Percentage
Hydro 89.29%
Natural Gas 5.00%
Nuclear 2.99%
Wind 1.78%
Coal 0.74%
Other 0.2%

--
Dane Buson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"Ah well, back to the cutting edge on the coal-face of e-commerce."
-- Charlie Stross