SUV Protest

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:50:40 -0600, <[email hidden]>, Robert Uhl

Quoted message said:

Ambulances cost money.

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

TAXI
--
zk

gds said:

While SUV's get really bad press I imagine that in fact SUV's and pick
ups are the vehicles of choice for many environmentalists.
While tooling around central Paris or even downtown Chicago in an 6 mpg
Hummer is pretty sick, I think that many who consider themselves
environmentalists are involved in the types of outdoor activites for
which high clearance and 4wd are pretty important.
For myself I do a lot of back country hiking and rock climbing. Many of
the mountain roads that I use would be unpassable in a car. I will tell
you that my SUV does a lot less damage to roads and is a lot quieter
than the more fuel efficinet ATV's that wreak havoc in some of these
areas.

High clearance? Maybe. 4wd? I doubt it.

In 30-odd years of runnin' around the southern Appalachians (all the a's
are soft, thank you!), almost every time I hike up a trail, or wade down
a creek, and get to the point I think, "Nobody could possibly drive back
this far," there's a vehicle around the next bend. 2/3 of these are 20
year old Chevy or Ford sedans, and the rest are pickup trucks (at least
10 years old). The drivers don't go bouncing them around like they're
monster trucks. They probably contribute to erosion around the rocks
that are bigger than a foot tall by driving around them, but they get
plain old cars further back in the hills than a flatlander could believe.

The natural habitat of an SUV is a parking lot or freeway, when you can
tell THOSE two apart.

Pat

Quoted message said:

As a conservative estimate, I'd say 99% of SUV owners have no practical
need for the monstrosities. The trend is driven by a combination of
conspicuous consumption and stupidity.

- Frank Krygowski

A woman I know drives one of these things because she needs to haul
tents and stuff in it. Once a year. *Once* a year.

Yeah, real good reason to burn excessive amounts of fuel the rest of the
time...

OTOH, I know a disabled woman who drives one because it's the only
vehicle she can get into unassisted, plus there's room for her power
chair. Since she lives alone, the "unassisted" part is pretty important.

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

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Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:50:40 -0600, <[email hidden]>, Robert Uhl

Quoted message said:

Ambulances cost money.

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

TAXI

*SPLUTTER*

Where do you live that a taxi arrives faster than an ambulance? Cuz I
can tell you, that would be nowhere near where I live.

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

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Zoot Katz said:

14 Sep 2005 09:31:21 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, "Fritz M"

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

http://www.capsteps.com/sounds/suv.ra (requires Real Audio)

That's pretty good :-)

Here's another catchy tune:

Oh oh, you and me
In our sport utility vehicles
Cruisin to 7-11
For a bag of Frito Lays

Oh oh, you and me
In our sport utility vehicles
We'll slam into four wheel drive
And pick up a dozen eggs

QT video clip at:

http://www.bigidea.com/videos/veggietales/vt022/clip04.htm

Here's the opening tune from the "Rocky Dino Opera"
http://bikesexual.org/dinos/opera.html

A MIGHTY FORTRESS
Key: G Tune: "Luther's Hymn"

A mighty fortress is my car,
My great strong box of steel,
My shiny sporty four-by-four,
My urban sex appeal.
This safe on wheels may crash
And small cars I may smash,
Some slobs may be dispatched
But I shall not be scratched,
My sport ute is my fortress.

The world can see how cool I am,
How excellent is my life-style.
All tongues proclaim the brands I buy
My choices are such high style.
Now get out of my way,
Bike bums in spandex gay
And stupid old ladies!
Leave the road to me
In my shiny fossil fortress!

© 2001-2004 Lee Henderson.
Licence granted for free performance and reproduction for study.

Hehe. Applies more to a Hummer though, dontcha think?

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

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the black rose said:

A woman I know drives one of these things because she needs to haul
tents and stuff in it. Once a year. *Once* a year.

Yeah, real good reason to burn excessive amounts of fuel the rest of the
time...

Hmm... At what point does occasional use (e.g., carrying gear for camping
trips) become a "real good reason" to own a bigger vehicle than you need
for everyday use?

Would she need to go camping twice a year? once a quarter? once a month?
twice a month? every weekend?
--
Darin McGrew, [email hidden], http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, [email hidden], http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"There are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't."

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:58:19 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, the black rose

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:50:40 -0600, <[email hidden]>, Robert Uhl

Quoted message said:

Ambulances cost money.

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

TAXI

*SPLUTTER*

Where do you live that a taxi arrives faster than an ambulance? Cuz I
can tell you, that would be nowhere near where I live.

A map will tell you that.

The only ambulance I ever rode in took almost an hour to arrive but a
taxi couldn't have legally gotten there. Had I been only six blocks
from the hospital, I'd have crawled.

I've seldom waited more than 10 minutes for a taxi. They're usually
here in five minutes.

How much quicker is driving going to be after you figure in the time
it takes to park at the hospital?
--
zk

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:59:25 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, the black rose

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's the opening tune from the "Rocky Dino Opera"
http://bikesexual.org/dinos/opera.html

A MIGHTY FORTRESS
Key: G Tune: "Luther's Hymn"

A mighty fortress is my car,
My great strong box of steel,
My shiny sporty four-by-four,
My urban sex appeal.
This safe on wheels may crash
And small cars I may smash,
Some slobs may be dispatched
But I shall not be scratched,
My sport ute is my fortress.

The world can see how cool I am,
How excellent is my life-style.
All tongues proclaim the brands I buy
My choices are such high style.
Now get out of my way,
Bike bums in spandex gay
And stupid old ladies!
Leave the road to me
In my shiny fossil fortress!

© 2001-2004 Lee Henderson.
Licence granted for free performance and reproduction for study.

Hehe. Applies more to a Hummer though, dontcha think?

A scud's a scud and they all stink.

The vehicle in the opera is a Ford Extinction SUV.

The entire set, cast, props and lighting is transported by bicycles.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

How much quicker is driving going to be after you figure in the time
it takes to park at the hospital?

For heaven's sake, in a real emergency, one doesn't bother to park!

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

-------- __o
----- -\<. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

Zoot Katz said:

Quoted message said:

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

Quoted message said:

TAXI

If you're lucky you can share a ride with a doctor trying to get to
the hospital after having his SUV's tires flattened.

--kyler

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 02:22:49 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, the black rose

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

How much quicker is driving going to be after you figure in the time
it takes to park at the hospital?

For heaven's sake, in a real emergency, one doesn't bother to park!

That's typical irresponsible cager behaviour. So what's new?

If it's that much of an "emergency" one probably shouldn't be driving
themselves to hospital. If it's an emergency for a family member then
it's damn cheezy to snivel about the cost of emergency medical
personnel offering immediate aid and rapid transit to hospital.

The OP's hypothetical situation is set in an urban environment where
taxis generally are readily available.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

I heard this on NPR today. I'm not sure why but I found it humorous.
It seems that in the St. Germain des Pres district of Paris
environmentalists are protesting the presence of monster SUVs by
letting the air out of the tires. They then leave a pamphlet on the
windshield explaining their motives.

Here is a link to today's show (September 13th):
http://theworld.org/latesteditions/09/20050913.shtml
You can listen to the entire show or scroll to the bottom and click on
the "Geo Answer Interview".

So when will this start with [censored] motorcycles? They get great mileage
BUT most expel as much pollution out the tail pipe as an SUV. Most
motorcycles don't have the hi-tech pollution control that SUV's have...

reader said:

Quoted message said:

I heard this on NPR today. I'm not sure why but I found it humorous.
It seems that in the St. Germain des Pres district of Paris
environmentalists are protesting the presence of monster SUVs by
letting the air out of the tires. They then leave a pamphlet on the
windshield explaining their motives.

Here is a link to today's show (September 13th):
http://theworld.org/latesteditions/09/20050913.shtml
You can listen to the entire show or scroll to the bottom and click on
the "Geo Answer Interview".

So when will this start with [censored] motorcycles? They get great mileage
BUT most expel as much pollution out the tail pipe as an SUV. Most
motorcycles don't have the hi-tech pollution control that SUV's have...

Know what the biggest polluter is?

It's not the transport truck or the diesel bus......

It's not the Stupifying Ugly Vehicle......

It's not the 35 year old, crappy motorcycle.........

It's the gasoline powered air blower that lawn care companies use to
blow the [censored] off the driveway where they just cut the grass, onto your
driveway next door. They use 2 stroke motors (oil mixed with the gas),
and often have little or no noise protection and yup, more pollution
per hour of operation then the transport truck. Close second, the
gasoline powered lawn mower.

W

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

....

Quoted message said:

It's the gasoline powered air blower that lawn care companies use to
blow the [censored] off the driveway where they just cut the grass, onto your
driveway next door. They use 2 stroke motors (oil mixed with the gas),
and often have little or no noise protection and yup, more pollution
per hour of operation then the transport truck. Close second, the
gasoline powered lawn mower.

BBQ grills are also a major source in some areas, as are 2-stroke boat
motors. Some states have banned 2-stroke motors for most or all small
gasoline engines.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

It's the gasoline powered air blower that lawn care companies use to
blow the [censored] off the driveway where they just cut the grass, onto your
driveway next door. They use 2 stroke motors (oil mixed with the gas),
and often have little or no noise protection and yup, more pollution
per hour of operation then the transport truck. Close second, the
gasoline powered lawn mower.

BBQ grills are also a major source in some areas, as are 2-stroke boat
motors. Some states have banned 2-stroke motors for most or all small
gasoline engines.

And these are classic examples of how measuring on a per-unit basis can
skew the truth. When you consider that most leaf blowers and grills are
used only a few hours a week, for only a portion of the year, it is not
likely that the total amount of pollution from these sources compares
to what spews forth from the trucks and automobiles on our roadways or
what is pouring from our antiquated power plants.

Got some numbers on total pollution by source per annum to back
yourselves up?

-Buck

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

It's the gasoline powered air blower that lawn care companies use to
blow the [censored] off the driveway where they just cut the grass, onto your
driveway next door. They use 2 stroke motors (oil mixed with the gas),
and often have little or no noise protection and yup, more pollution
per hour of operation then the transport truck. Close second, the
gasoline powered lawn mower.

BBQ grills are also a major source in some areas, as are 2-stroke boat
motors. Some states have banned 2-stroke motors for most or all small
gasoline engines.

And these are classic examples of how measuring on a per-unit basis can
skew the truth. When you consider that most leaf blowers and grills are
used only a few hours a week, for only a portion of the year, it is not
likely that the total amount of pollution from these sources compares
to what spews forth from the trucks and automobiles on our roadways or
what is pouring from our antiquated power plants.

Got some numbers on total pollution by source per annum to back
yourselves up?

I have seen them, but don't have them immediately to hand. Keep in
mind, however, that in some parts of the country (Florida and So Cal,
for example), small gas engines are used all year around in boats and
lawn equipment, and over the course of a year a single lawn mower can
easily release more total emissions than a bunch of cars do. Even if
they run a lot fewer hours (and not all of them do, if they are used by
a landscaping company for example), their emissions per hour is so much
more that it outweighs the time effect. Most people don't use their
cars for more than a couple hours per day on a yearly average basis
either.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Buck said:

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

It's the gasoline powered air blower that lawn care companies use to
blow the [censored] off the driveway where they just cut the grass, onto your
driveway next door. They use 2 stroke motors (oil mixed with the gas),
and often have little or no noise protection and yup, more pollution
per hour of operation then the transport truck. Close second, the
gasoline powered lawn mower.

BBQ grills are also a major source in some areas, as are 2-stroke boat
motors. Some states have banned 2-stroke motors for most or all small
gasoline engines.

And these are classic examples of how measuring on a per-unit basis can
skew the truth. When you consider that most leaf blowers and grills are
used only a few hours a week, for only a portion of the year, it is not
likely that the total amount of pollution from these sources compares
to what spews forth from the trucks and automobiles on our roadways or
what is pouring from our antiquated power plants.

Got some numbers on total pollution by source per annum to back
yourselves up?

Lets see, I've seen the numbers, can't get ahold of them right now, a
lawnmower or gas blower running for one hour, pollutes more then a city
bus running for 8 hours. That actually may be getting worse, as at
least one company (Orion) is now offering a hybrid.

W

reader said:

So when will this start with [censored] motorcycles? They get great mileage
BUT most expel as much pollution out the tail pipe as an SUV. Most
motorcycles don't have the hi-tech pollution control that SUV's
have...

I'd like to see even one of these "eco-heroes" vandalize a Harley and then
stick around to discuss their "leaflet" with the owner.

There's no excuse for damaging, defacing OR DISABLING another person's
property.

Period.

N&F

"Nuck 'n Futz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's no excuse for damaging, defacing OR DISABLING another person's
property.

Period.

How do you feel about people who damage everyone's (vs. "another person's)
property? After all, we all have a common share in the air we breathe. There
are lots of people who damage it every day. Do you believe that, because it
belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one? How do we go about dealing with
those who would damage, deface, or disable something that we all have a
share in?

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Nuck 'n Futz said:

I'd like to see even one of these "eco-heroes" vandalize a Harley and then
stick around to discuss their "leaflet" with the owner.

There's no excuse for damaging, defacing OR DISABLING another person's
property.

Period.

Really?

If a vehicle driver were in the process of trying to run me over, I'd
feel very justified in disabling his property, if there were a way.

If a Harley driver were running without mufflers at all hours of the
night, deliberately waking all those who were trying to sleep, I'd
probably feel the same way.

IOW, "no excuse - period" simply means you haven't considered all
possibilities.

To get back to the subject of this SUV protest, I wouldn't go around
letting the air out of their tires. But I can see why some might
consider it a valid method of protest. It's similar to a case I've
heard of, where wheelchair-bound guy went around letting air out of
tires of cars parked illegally in handicapped spaces.

- Frank Krygowski