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SUV mows down children

Started by Bill H. · · Last activity · 36 posts · 449 views

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Road Cycling
Published
3 May 2007
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5 May 2007
Original author
Bill H.
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  1. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQRH38.DTL

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

  2. Bill H. said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQR...

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    Question #1--What does this have to do with recreational cycling?
    Question #2--What is your area of expertise to come to a judgement,
    from the facts stated in the article, as to the cause of the accident?
    Question #3- What is your area of expertise as to what system of
    testing / retesting of older drivers will be of greatest societal
    benefit.
    Question #4-- You specify "rigourous testing on a road course designed
    to test reaction time and judgement." Do you know of such testing for
    drivers of any age?

  3. Bill H. wrote:
    ::
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQRH38.DTL
    ::
    :: "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    :: old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    :: hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.
    ::
    :: Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    :: seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    :: confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    :: 70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required
    :: to renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road
    :: course designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    I say make everyone be subjected to rigorous testing. I've seen lots of
    uncoordinated people try to pull stunts in cars that they have no business
    doing.

  4. "Bill H." wrote: "Brake failure" my ass. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    You can't possibly know that. Considering the number and extent of the
    injuries, it is certain the car will be examined to verify the driver's
    claim. Why don't you keep your mouth shut until the facts are know? I
    don't want to conceal anything, so I'll tell you I am 79.

  5. Roger Zoul said:

    Bill H. wrote:
    ::
    :: Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    :: seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    :: confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    :: 70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required
    :: to renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road
    :: course designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    I say make everyone be subjected to rigorous testing. I've seen lots of
    uncoordinated people try to pull stunts in cars that they have no business
    doing.

    Yup, I'd like to see a higher standard of testing enforced across the board.

    A post I wrote to somewhere else that's on-topic
    =============================================================================

    Meh, it's okay I guess.

    I'd rather see a bit of effort and cash expended on improving crappy drivers.

    1) Make the written test harder
    2) Emphasize driving safely around cyclists in the manual and test
    3) Mandatory written test every 2.5 years
    4) Mandatory on-road retest for license every five years
    5) Bigger fines for driving-while-being-a-jerk offense [1].

    I'll feel a little safer when it seems like you have to do a little more
    than fog a mirror to obtain and keep a automobile license.

    [1] Reckless driving, Driving on a suspended license, Driving while
    talking on the cellphone, etc.

    --
    Dane Buson - [email hidden]
    "In our country we have those three unspeakably precious
    things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the
    prudence never to practice either." -Mark Twain

  6. gds said:
    Bill H. said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQR...

    Quoted message said:

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    Question #1--What does this have to do with recreational cycling?

    Recreational cyclists have to deal with road hazards, not the least of
    which is bad drivers. If one of the kids had been riding a bike,
    would that make a difference to you?

    Quoted message said:

    Question #2--What is your area of expertise to come to a judgement,
    from the facts stated in the article, as to the cause of the accident?

    Well, I have some common sense, for one. Older drivers are worse
    drivers, by and large. Their hearing, eyesight, and mental acuity
    deteriorates every year...all part of the aging process. Studies have
    shown that the older one gets, the slower their reflexes...as well as
    their ability to judge things like how fast other cars are
    approaching.

    Also, at least one witness attested to the fact that the engine revved
    at least twice prior to the crash, which could be accounted for by the
    driver hitting the gas pedal while trying to hit the brake.
    Also...brakes don't just "fail" with no warning, especially on newer
    cars like a 2004 Honda Pilot. In any event, if the driver was going
    to crash and couldn't stop, why the hell would he aim for a bus stop
    filled with children? Even in the event of a brake failure, you can
    presumably still steer, honk the horn, turn off the engine...throw it
    into reverse (you'll kill your transmission of course)...do something

    I'll allow that there's still more to be known about this, but the
    fact that the driver didn't immediately get out of the car to help is
    a little odd. Even odder is the fact that, rather than deal with the
    emergency at hand, he decided to make a call on his cell phone after
    getting out of the vehicle.

    What's your explanation?

    Quoted message said:

    Question #3- What is your area of expertise as to what system of
    testing / retesting of older drivers will be of greatest societal
    benefit.

    I have none...but anything would be better than nothing...which is
    pretty much what most states are doing nowadays to ensure the maximum
    amount of revenue from license / registration fees. But given the
    facts that old people can't see, hear, or think as well as younger
    drivers, I think it's society's responsibility to take proactive
    measures to validate their ability to operate machines that, when used
    improperly, can kill people. It's the same reason that I don't want a
    90-year-old man flying a plane, regardless of whether I'm a passenger
    or not.

    Quoted message said:

    Question #4-- You specify "rigourous testing on a road course designed
    to test reaction time and judgement." Do you know of such testing for
    drivers of any age?

    No. If we were doing it, I wouldn't have suggested it. Some states
    have stricter laws for younger drivers, resulting in the suspension of
    a license for an infraction as small as a speeding ticket. I think it
    would be a good idea to suspend or revoke licenses for older drivers
    as well.

  7. Dane Buson wrote:
    :: Yup, I'd like to see a higher standard of testing enforced across
    :: the board.
    ::
    :: A post I wrote to somewhere else that's on-topic
    ::
    =============================================================================
    ::
    :: Meh, it's okay I guess.
    ::
    :: I'd rather see a bit of effort and cash expended on improving crappy
    :: drivers.
    ::
    :: 1) Make the written test harder
    :: 2) Emphasize driving safely around cyclists in the manual and test
    :: 3) Mandatory written test every 2.5 years
    :: 4) Mandatory on-road retest for license every five years
    :: 5) Bigger fines for driving-while-being-a-jerk offense [1].
    ::
    :: I'll feel a little safer when it seems like you have to do a little
    :: more than fog a mirror to obtain and keep a automobile license.
    ::
    :: [1] Reckless driving, Driving on a suspended license, Driving while
    :: talking on the cellphone, etc.

    This is good stuff. I'd like to see something like this put into practice
    across the US. I think we've become too lazy on the roads....too many
    distractions and too many people in too big of a hurry and caring too little
    about who they might hurt. And too little willingness to take responsibility
    for one's actions.

  8. Bill H. said:
    gds said:

    On May 3, 10:42 am, "Bill H." <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQR...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    Quoted message said:

    Question #1--What does this have to do with recreational cycling?

    Recreational cyclists have to deal with road hazards, not the least of
    which is bad drivers. If one of the kids had been riding a bike,
    would that make a difference to you?

    Quoted message said:

    Question #2--What is your area of expertise to come to a judgement,
    from the facts stated in the article, as to the cause of the accident?

    Well, I have some common sense, for one. Older drivers are worse
    drivers, by and large. Their hearing, eyesight, and mental acuity
    deteriorates every year...all part of the aging process. Studies have
    shown that the older one gets, the slower their reflexes...as well as
    their ability to judge things like how fast other cars are
    approaching.

    Also, at least one witness attested to the fact that the engine revved
    at least twice prior to the crash, which could be accounted for by the
    driver hitting the gas pedal while trying to hit the brake.
    Also...brakes don't just "fail" with no warning, especially on newer
    cars like a 2004 Honda Pilot. In any event, if the driver was going
    to crash and couldn't stop, why the hell would he aim for a bus stop
    filled with children? Even in the event of a brake failure, you can
    presumably still steer, honk the horn, turn off the engine...throw it
    into reverse (you'll kill your transmission of course)...do something

    I'll allow that there's still more to be known about this, but the
    fact that the driver didn't immediately get out of the car to help is
    a little odd. Even odder is the fact that, rather than deal with the
    emergency at hand, he decided to make a call on his cell phone after
    getting out of the vehicle.

    What's your explanation?

    Quoted message said:

    Question #3- What is your area of expertise as to what system of
    testing / retesting of older drivers will be of greatest societal
    benefit.

    I have none...but anything would be better than nothing...which is
    pretty much what most states are doing nowadays to ensure the maximum
    amount of revenue from license / registration fees. But given the
    facts that old people can't see, hear, or think as well as younger
    drivers, I think it's society's responsibility to take proactive
    measures to validate their ability to operate machines that, when used
    improperly, can kill people. It's the same reason that I don't want a
    90-year-old man flying a plane, regardless of whether I'm a passenger
    or not.

    Quoted message said:

    Question #4-- You specify "rigourous testing on a road course designed
    to test reaction time and judgement." Do you know of such testing for
    drivers of any age?

    No. If we were doing it, I wouldn't have suggested it. Some states
    have stricter laws for younger drivers, resulting in the suspension of
    a license for an infraction as small as a speeding ticket. I think it
    would be a good idea to suspend or revoke licenses for older drivers
    as well.- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    My first point was that while this may an issue for society at large
    it really isn't germain to cycling. Did this get posted to pedestrian
    sites or to bus stop sites? I don't mean to be silly but the
    relationship to cycling is less than to folks in general.
    My second point is that one should not jump to conclusions based on
    few vetted "facts" especially as they appear in a newspaper.
    My third point is that the sttistics you quote on older drivers are
    very much in dispute. There are some studies that show thqt older
    drivers have issues with reaction time etc. and do start to have
    higher accident rates. But some studies also show that older drivers
    have "less serious" accidents and much lower rates of DUI, excessive
    speding, and reckless driving than say males ages 16-25.
    Some of the more serious accidents involving older drivers have been
    linked to problems with medication and/or dramatic health events such
    as a heart attack, problems with blood sugar etc.
    My fourth point is that -in my view- the problem is not with testing
    but with enforcement. I think most folks have personal expereince that
    would suggest that many if not most (if not almost all) the dangerous
    driving they witness is behavioural based rather than skill based. So,
    if the problem is that drivers with good reflexes and skills as
    demonstrated on a test then go out and drive recklessly while
    intoxicated what impact would testing have? My choice is that there be
    increased enforcement of serious infractions such as DUI, reckless
    driving, road rage events, excessive speed, and running red lights. If
    that BEHAVIOR was curtailed I think that you would find far fewer
    driving related tragedies than worrying abou the 15 old folks a year
    that have a health event that ends up tragically.

    BTW pilot licenses are for life but you need to be retested every 2
    years no matter what your age. Still, most airplane accidents fall
    under "pilot error." It is rare that a flying accident is from
    catastrophic equipment failure.

  9. "Bill H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQRH38.DTL

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    What did the "SUV" have to do with it, would it have been prevented if he
    had been driving a Prius? Those evil SUV's just roaming around looking
    for something to destroy.

  10. DI said:


    "Bill H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQRH38.DTL

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    What did the "SUV" have to do with it, would it have been prevented ifhe
    had been driving a Prius? Those evil SUV's just roaming around looking
    for something to destroy.

    He probably wouldn't have been able to take out as many people. Moreover,
    it'd be a heck of a lot easier to lift a Prius than a Honda Pilot:

    Staff members and parents sprang into action, struggling to lift the Honda
    off the pinned children.

    "There were six of us in front of the vehicle trying to lift it, but there
    was nothing happening," Schrag said. "I was a little bit worried because
    of the gasoline dripping."

    A school janitor produced a jack, Schrag said, but the adults couldn't
    wedge the tool under the crushed car's front end. Finally, with what
    Schrag called "an incredible effort," the adults managed to lift the car
    enough to slip the jack into place, then raise the vehicle and free the
    students.

    --
    Bob in CT

  11. DI said:

    "Bill H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQR...

    Quoted message said:

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    What did the "SUV" have to do with it, would it have been prevented if he
    had been driving a Prius? Those evil SUV's just roaming around looking
    for something to destroy.

    True. Actually, a smaller car may have caused MORE damage and
    injuries, since the children would possibly have been crushed
    underneath instead of just "trapped" under the vehicle. In this case,
    the higher ground clearance seems to have been a good thing.

    I actually have nothing against SUVs, generally. I think they're a
    bit unnecessary for most folks, but it's their money and they're
    welcome to spend it however they please.

  12. gds said:
    Bill H. said:

    On May 3, 11:02 am, gds <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On May 3, 10:42 am, "Bill H." <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQR...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    > old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    > hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    > seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    > confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    > 70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    > renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    > designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Question #1--What does this have to do with recreational cycling?

    Quoted message said:

    Recreational cyclists have to deal with road hazards, not the least of
    which is bad drivers. If one of the kids had been riding a bike,
    would that make a difference to you?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Question #2--What is your area of expertise to come to a judgement,
    from the facts stated in the article, as to the cause of the accident?

    Quoted message said:

    Well, I have some common sense, for one. Older drivers are worse
    drivers, by and large. Their hearing, eyesight, and mental acuity
    deteriorates every year...all part of the aging process. Studies have
    shown that the older one gets, the slower their reflexes...as well as
    their ability to judge things like how fast other cars are
    approaching.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, at least one witness attested to the fact that the engine revved
    at least twice prior to the crash, which could be accounted for by the
    driver hitting the gas pedal while trying to hit the brake.
    Also...brakes don't just "fail" with no warning, especially on newer
    cars like a 2004 Honda Pilot. In any event, if the driver was going
    to crash and couldn't stop, why the hell would he aim for a bus stop
    filled with children? Even in the event of a brake failure, you can
    presumably still steer, honk the horn, turn off the engine...throw it
    into reverse (you'll kill your transmission of course)...do something

    Quoted message said:

    I'll allow that there's still more to be known about this, but the
    fact that the driver didn't immediately get out of the car to help is
    a little odd. Even odder is the fact that, rather than deal with the
    emergency at hand, he decided to make a call on his cell phone after
    getting out of the vehicle.

    Quoted message said:

    What's your explanation?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Question #3- What is your area of expertise as to what system of
    testing / retesting of older drivers will be of greatest societal
    benefit.

    Quoted message said:

    I have none...but anything would be better than nothing...which is
    pretty much what most states are doing nowadays to ensure the maximum
    amount of revenue from license / registration fees. But given the
    facts that old people can't see, hear, or think as well as younger
    drivers, I think it's society's responsibility to take proactive
    measures to validate their ability to operate machines that, when used
    improperly, can kill people. It's the same reason that I don't want a
    90-year-old man flying a plane, regardless of whether I'm a passenger
    or not.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Question #4-- You specify "rigourous testing on a road course designed
    to test reaction time and judgement." Do you know of such testing for
    drivers of any age?

    Quoted message said:

    No. If we were doing it, I wouldn't have suggested it. Some states
    have stricter laws for younger drivers, resulting in the suspension of
    a license for an infraction as small as a speeding ticket. I think it
    would be a good idea to suspend or revoke licenses for older drivers
    as well.- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    My first point was that while this may an issue for society at large
    it really isn't germain to cycling. Did this get posted to pedestrian
    sites or to bus stop sites? I don't mean to be silly but the
    relationship to cycling is less than to folks in general.
    My second point is that one should not jump to conclusions based on
    few vetted "facts" especially as they appear in a newspaper.
    My third point is that the sttistics you quote on older drivers are
    very much in dispute. There are some studies that show thqt older
    drivers have issues with reaction time etc. and do start to have
    higher accident rates. But some studies also show that older drivers
    have "less serious" accidents and much lower rates of DUI, excessive
    speding, and reckless driving than say males ages 16-25.
    Some of the more serious accidents involving older drivers have been
    linked to problems with medication and/or dramatic health events such
    as a heart attack, problems with blood sugar etc.
    My fourth point is that -in my view- the problem is not with testing
    but with enforcement. I think most folks have personal expereince that
    would suggest that many if not most (if not almost all) the dangerous
    driving they witness is behavioural based rather than skill based. So,
    if the problem is that drivers with good reflexes and skills as
    demonstrated on a test then go out and drive recklessly while
    intoxicated what impact would testing have? My choice is that there be
    increased enforcement of serious infractions such as DUI, reckless
    driving, road rage events, excessive speed, and running red lights. If
    that BEHAVIOR was curtailed I think that you would find far fewer
    driving related tragedies than worrying abou the 15 old folks a year
    that have a health event that ends up tragically.

    BTW pilot licenses are for life but you need to be retested every 2
    years no matter what your age. Still, most airplane accidents fall
    under "pilot error." It is rare that a flying accident is from
    catastrophic equipment failure.

    Good points.

    I'm not an expert. I just think that we should be doing a little more
    to make sure that those who are driving still have the capacity to
    competently handle a motor vehicle under all conditions, including
    driving at night, in heavy traffic, etc. Accidents will still happen,
    people will still get killed...I'll stipulate to that. But as one
    gets older, I think their judgment, hearing, and eyesight all slowly
    deteriorate, and what's more -- I think many elderly motorists don't
    realize how much worse they are than they used to be. Kind of like
    someone who goes for an eye exam and realizes they've been wearing the
    wrong prescription for the last two years and just "got used to
    it".

    Strict, consistent testing for drivers over a certain age may be able
    to prevent some of these accidents in the future.

  13. "Bill H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQRH38.DTL

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    How about this one?---

    http://pasco.tbo.com/pasco/MGBG79TJ81F.html

    PORT RICHEY - Just as she did each school day, Alyssa Tippett walked her
    younger brother home from Chasco Elementary on Wednesday afternoon.
    But this time it was anything but routine.

    Alyssa, 13, was walking west on the sidewalk along Bramblewood Drive to the
    family's apartment nearby on Isabella Drive when a 2004 Mitsubishi SUV
    struck her about 4 p.m.

    "He dragged her under the car," said Alyssa's sister, Ashley, 15, surrounded
    by friends and trying to hold back tears that later would come.

    Alyssa was flown by medical helicopter to Bayfront Medical Center in St.
    Petersburg. Her condition wasn't immediately known Wednesday evening.

    Her brother, John Dantouno, 9, was unscathed physically but was distraught
    after watching his sister get hit, said the siblings' grandmother, Grace
    Taylor.

    After hitting Alyssa, the red sport utility vehicle driven by Jose Martinez
    mowed down a small tree at 7513 Bramblewood Drive, hit a minivan in the
    driveway and then smashed into the partially open garage door.

    Somewhere along the way, he took out Dawn Hoffman's mailbox across the
    street. She was standing in her living room when something caught her eye
    outside.

    "I watched my mailbox go flying," said Hoffman, 32. "As soon as I opened my
    front door, the car was in the garage."

    John Kolesnick, 82, was at the home - where the SUV ended up - when he heard
    "a big noise." He and his son, K.C., 47, who owns the house, went outside to
    see what the commotion was and heard neighbors yelling.

    "There's a girl under there," they hollered.

    Hoffman saw Alyssa's feet sticking out from beneath the SUV and, with other
    neighbors, ran to aid and comfort the girl. They placed concrete blocks
    under the Mitsubishi's tires and jacked up the SUV to relieve the pressure
    on Alyssa while waiting for paramedics to arrive.

    Alyssa was conscious and talking, K.C. Kolesnick said.

    "She was telling me she didn't want to go to the hospital," he said.

    Obviously that wasn't an option, Kolesnick said.

    Outside in his driveway, he pointed to the fallen tree.

    "My tree saved her," Kolesnick said.

    The Florida Highway Patrol said Martinez, 58, of 8005 Banister Lane, told
    them he was driving with his wife west on Bramblewood when he swerved to
    avoid a bicyclist.

    "This is my first time in my life," he said about the accident.

    Martinez and his wife weren't injured.

    ---This article doesn't go into detail, but the "driver" was an
    elderly(possibly 60s or older) non-English speaking Hispanic who claimed he
    was under the influence of prescription drugs. I don't understand how people
    who can't speak the language can possibly safely navigate in traffic. He's
    lucky he didn't kill the girl.

  14. "Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Bill H." wrote: "Brake failure" my ass. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    You can't possibly know that. Considering the number and extent of the
    injuries, it is certain the car will be examined to verify the driver's
    claim. Why don't you keep your mouth shut until the facts are know? I
    don't want to conceal anything, so I'll tell you I am 79.

    Plus, the time I was in the car with Leo, he didn't mow down anyone.

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
    See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

  15. Bill H. said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQRH38.DTL

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    Although reaction times do tend to slow with age, young and relatively
    inexperienced drivers (particularly young male drivers) still command
    the lion's share of accidents attributed to driver error:

    With the aging of the US population, there is increasing attention to
    the risk of crashes among the elderly. In fact, drivers 80 years or
    older have a higher crash death rate per miles driven than any other
    group except teens.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    --

    John ([email hidden])

  16. "Gooserider" wrote: ---This article doesn't go into detail, but the
    "driver" was an

    Quoted message said:

    elderly(possibly 60s or older)


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    The article DOES go into detail--it gives his age as 58.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    non-English speaking Hispanic who claimed he was under the influence of
    prescription drugs. I don't understand how people who can't speak the
    language can possibly safely navigate in traffic. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Is there something about these tragedies that brings out the worst in the
    worst of us? What possible connection can you make between his language
    ability and his driving ability? Presumably he had a driver's license, or
    that would have been mentioned in the story along with all the other
    details.

  17. John Thompson said:
    Bill H. said:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/03/BAGJ1PJQRH38.DTL

    "Brake failure" my ass. The problem was with the driver, a 70-year
    old man who, most likely, got confused or distracted and ended up
    hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.

    Anyone else think we need to keep old people out of the driver's
    seat? Their reaction time is slower, and they're more likely to get
    confused. I know there's plenty of perfectly lucid drivers in their
    70s or 80s out there...but I think they should at least be required to
    renew their license annually through rigorous testing on a road course
    designed to test reaction time and judgment.

    Although reaction times do tend to slow with age, young and relatively
    inexperienced drivers (particularly young male drivers) still command
    the lion's share of accidents attributed to driver error:

    With the aging of the US population, there is increasing attention to
    the risk of crashes among the elderly. In fact, drivers 80 years or
    older have a higher crash death rate per miles driven than any other
    group except teens.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

    A eighty year old person's response time is equivalent to that of a
    person twenty years of age yapping on a cell phone.

    The WHO has reported that traffic collisions are the leading cause of
    death among persons age 11 to 26.

    Older persons are more physically fragile. A survivable injury to a
    thirty year old often proves fatal to a senior citizen.
    --
    zk

  18. gds said:

    My first point was that while this may an issue for society at large
    it really isn't germain to cycling.

    Get used to that.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
    little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo Emerson

  19. Dane Buson said:


    I'd rather see a bit of effort and cash expended on improving crappy drivers.

    1) Make the written test harder
    2) Emphasize driving safely around cyclists in the manual and test
    3) Mandatory written test every 2.5 years
    4) Mandatory on-road retest for license every five years
    5) Bigger fines for driving-while-being-a-jerk offense [1].

    I'll feel a little safer when it seems like you have to do a little more
    than fog a mirror to obtain and keep a automobile license.

    [1] Reckless driving, Driving on a suspended license, Driving while
    talking on the cellphone, etc.

    I'd only differ with you in asking for mandatory jail time for driving
    with a suspended or revoked license. Twice the suspension time would
    be a good start.

    Pat

    Email address works as is.

  20. Patrick Lamb said:
    Dane Buson said:

    I'd rather see a bit of effort and cash expended on improving crappy drivers.

    1) Make the written test harder
    2) Emphasize driving safely around cyclists in the manual and test
    3) Mandatory written test every 2.5 years
    4) Mandatory on-road retest for license every five years
    5) Bigger fines for driving-while-being-a-jerk offense [1].

    I'll feel a little safer when it seems like you have to do a little more
    than fog a mirror to obtain and keep a automobile license.

    [1] Reckless driving, Driving on a suspended license, Driving while
    talking on the cellphone, etc.

    I'd only differ with you in asking for mandatory jail time for driving
    with a suspended or revoked license. Twice the suspension time would
    be a good start.

    Pat

    Email address works as is.

    I'm with you on most of this but California is proof that anything can
    be screwed up. I took both a written test and a driving test last year
    and had points taken off the driving test for shifting my 5 speed 1, 3,
    5, as if I didn't know what I was doing. I explained that there was no
    need to wear the clutch and gears shifting into every one for a slow
    acceleration but he marked me down anyway. When I did a few double
    clutch racing style down-shifts to prove I knew what I was doing he was
    not impressed. It wasn't by the book, so didn't count. Even the
    so-called experts, aren't.
    Bill Baka

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