Suspension fork flex

On Sun, 30 May 2004 11:08:40 +0100, "Doki" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The cheapo RST Capa fork on my mountain bike appears to
flex and move backwards relative to the rest of the bike
under braking. Gentle braking gives you a nice judder
through the whole bike. Is it worth me bothering to strip
it down and rebuild it, or is the whole thing likely to be
buggered? If it is buggered, has anyone any experience of
using rigid forks on an MTB designed for suspension forks?

Don't waste your time with a fork rebuild - new bushes and
seals will probably cost more than a new fork if you shop
around for NOS.

There are several rigid forks available for suspension
geometry, and lots of happy customers. I've got a cheap
steel one on a bike which previously had a 100mm travel
fork. Most rigid conversions will lower the front of the
bike, so you get steeper head and seat angles, less trail
and a lower BB height, which is not always an unalloyed
benefit. Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your
milage may vary

Kinky Cowboy said:

Doki said:

The cheapo RST Capa fork on my mountain bike appears to
flex and move backwards relative to the rest of the bike
under braking. Gentle braking gives you a nice judder
through the whole bike. Is it worth me bothering to
strip it down and rebuild it, or is the whole thing
likely to be buggered? If it is buggered, has anyone any
experience of using rigid forks on an MTB designed for
suspension forks?

Don't waste your time with a fork rebuild - new bushes and
seals will probably cost more than a new fork if you shop
around for NOS.

I don't especially want to replace a knackered cheap fork
with a working cheapo fork TBH. If I were going to swap
forks, I'd probalby go for one of the decent names. OTOH,
I've not been riding long and probably wouldn't take
advantage of the improved perfomance.

Quoted message said:

There are several rigid forks available for suspension
geometry, and lots of happy customers. I've got a cheap
steel one on a bike which previously had a 100mm travel
fork. Most rigid conversions will lower the front of the
bike, so you get steeper head and seat angles, less trail
and a lower BB height, which is not always an unalloyed
benefit.

I thought the idea of suspension geometry corrected forks is
that they're longer than normal ones, so the bike keeps the
same geometry? AFAIK my forks only have 50mm or so of travel
to start with.

On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:20:02 +0100, "Doki" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Kinky Cowboy said:

Doki said:

The cheapo RST Capa fork on my mountain bike appears to
flex and move backwards relative to the rest of the bike
under braking. Gentle braking gives you a nice judder
through the whole bike. Is it worth me bothering to
strip it down and rebuild it, or is the whole thing
likely to be buggered? If it is buggered, has anyone any
experience of using rigid forks on an MTB designed for
suspension forks?

Don't waste your time with a fork rebuild - new bushes
and seals will probably cost more than a new fork if you
shop around for NOS.

I don't especially want to replace a knackered cheap fork
with a working cheapo fork TBH. If I were going to swap
forks, I'd probalby go for one of the decent names. OTOH,
I've not been riding long and probably wouldn't take
advantage of the improved perfomance.

Quoted message said:

There are several rigid forks available for suspension
geometry, and lots of happy customers. I've got a cheap
steel one on a bike which previously had a 100mm travel
fork. Most rigid conversions will lower the front of the
bike, so you get steeper head and seat angles, less trail
and a lower BB height, which is not always an unalloyed
benefit.

I thought the idea of suspension geometry corrected forks
is that they're longer than normal ones, so the bike keeps
the same geometry? AFAIK my forks only have 50mm or so of
travel to start with.

For a 50mm travel fork, you can probably get a rigid
replacement the same length (420 to 430mm), as you say
eliminating geometry changes. These forks are generally sold
as replacements for 75-100mm suspension forks, in which case
my comments about geometry changes apply.

My comments about shopping around for NOS suspension
forks are based on the following; cheapest rigid fork
£30, 2001 Rock Shox Jett C £40. There are some good
reasons for running a rigid fork, but saving a lot of
money isn't one of them.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your
milage may vary

Kinky Cowboy said:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 12:20:02 +0100, "Doki"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I thought the idea of suspension geometry corrected forks
is that they're longer than normal ones, so the bike
keeps the same geometry? AFAIK my forks only have 50mm or
so of travel to start with.

For a 50mm travel fork, you can probably get a rigid
replacement the same length (420 to 430mm), as you say
eliminating geometry changes. These forks are generally
sold as replacements for 75-100mm suspension forks, in
which case my comments about geometry changes apply.

My comments about shopping around for NOS suspension forks
are based on the following; cheapest rigid fork £30, 2001
Rock Shox Jett C £40. There are some good reasons for
running a rigid fork, but saving a lot of money isn't one
of them.

Where's that? I've not seen any offers around the bike shops
here, or do you tend to have to ask? What are the good
reasons for having a rigid fork? I can see that you could
save weight, sprint a bit better etc.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Kinky Cowboy said:

On 30 May 2004 18:19:33 GMT, [email hidden]

(R15757) said:

Doki wrote:

<< What are the good reasons for having a rigid fork? I
can see that you could save weight, sprint a bit better
etc. >>

Much better out of saddle acceleration/climbing, more
control under braking and smooth turns. Increased
maneuverability of front end at slow speeds. Reliability
on long rides. Increased intensity of experience, more
fun. Just one man's opinion on that last one.

Get a light rigid fork that flexes a bit and big tires.

Robert

All of the above and it teaches you to ride better,
easier to lift the front over stuff instead of riding
through it, precise front wheel positioning which is
pretty much essential for a lot of trials moves.

For a cheap suspension fork, try chainreactio-chainreactio-Open ↗
ncycles.com/viewproduct.asp?category=Forks&ModelID=168 2

Kinky Cowboy*

Dear Kinky,

Hmm . . . this guy seems to ride pretty well, is lifting
his front wheel over stuff, and is awfully precise,
despite the handicap of front suspension:

ssdt.orgIMG 3903.jpgOpen ↗

In fact, everyone in the event runs front suspension (and
has been for over fifty years).

Of course, things are probably drastically different in
bicycle trials, but the "precise" part was where my faith
was shaken.

Erm, there's precise and then there's precise. First of all,
motorcycle trials riders ride bikes weighing, ohh...70 kg
for a really light example:

gasgas.comspecsOpen ↗
125.pdf

70 kg = 154 lbs.

I daresay that without suspension damping, they'd just break
those motorcycles when they dropped the front wheel onto
something.

Bicycle trials riders use somewhat lighter mounts, and are
able to attenuate the landing forces with their arms and
legs rather more effectively. I don't know of any
competitive trials bike that comes with front suspension, as
shown in this series of competition photos:

biketrials.comindex.shtmlOpen ↗

Honesty compels me to mention one exception. Ryan Leech,
trials demo rider, runs an MX Comp on his bike.

ryanleech.comhardwareOpen ↗

Note that Leech is a fabulously skilled and quite famous
triallist, but he does not normally ride competitions.

On the other hand, he does this:

ryanleech.comberkcourtseries.jpgOpen ↗

And can also manage a 103 cm sidehop (for which the fork
might actually help).

ryanleech.commultimediaOpen ↗

-RjC.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

Quoted message said:

Honesty compels me to mention one exception. Ryan Leech,
trials demo rider, runs an MX Comp on his bike.

I believe he's sponsored by Zoke... he kinda has to use it.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Ryan Cousineau said:

...

Quoted message said:

Note that Leech is a fabulously skilled and quite famous
triallist, but he does not normally ride competitions.

On the other hand, he does this:

ryanleech.comberkcourtseriesOpen ↗
.jpg....

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

On Sun, 30 May 2004 20:09:31 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Kinky Cowboy said:

On 30 May 2004 18:19:33 GMT, [email hidden] (R15757)
wrote:

>Doki wrote:
>
><< What are the good reasons for having a rigid fork? I

All of the above and it teaches you to ride better,
easier to lift the front over stuff instead of riding
through it, precise front wheel positioning which is
pretty much essential for a lot of trials moves.

Kinky Cowboy*

Dear Kinky, Of course, things are probably drastically
different in bicycle trials, but the "precise" part was
where my faith was shaken.

Erm, there's precise and then there's precise. First of
all, motorcycle trials riders ride bikes weighing, ohh...70
kg for a really light

Quite. I'd want to be VERY precise if I was doing some of
the stuff these guys do
trialskings.com1.jpgOpen ↗ That girder
edge he's landing on is narrower than the tyres.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your
milage may vary

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 00:09:58 GMT, Kinky Cowboy
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 30 May 2004 18:19:33 GMT, [email hidden]
(R15757) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Doki wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<< What are the good reasons for having a rigid fork?
I can see that you could save weight, sprint a bit
better etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Much better out of saddle acceleration/climbing, more
control under braking and smooth turns. Increased
maneuverability of front end at slow speeds. Reliability
on long rides. Increased intensity of experience, more
fun. Just one man's opinion on that last one.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Get a light rigid fork that flexes a bit and big tires.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All of the above and it teaches you to ride better,
easier to lift the front over stuff instead of riding
through it, precise front wheel positioning which is
pretty much essential for a lot of trials moves.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For a cheap suspension fork, try

chainreactioncycles.comviewproduct.aspOpen ↗
=Forks&ModelID=1682

Quoted message said:

Hmm . . . this guy seems to ride pretty well, is lifting
his front wheel over stuff, and is awfully precise,
despite the handicap of front suspension:

Quoted message said:

ssdt.orgIMG 3903.jpgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

In fact, everyone in the event runs front suspension (and
has been for over fifty years).

Quoted message said:

Of course, things are probably drastically different in
bicycle trials, but the "precise" part was where my faith
was shaken.

I've seen Hans Rey out riding many times, on a standard MTB
w/ front suspension. Suspension fork precision doesn't seem
to be an issue for him.

Matt O.

In article <[email hidden]>,

ZeeExSixAre said:

Quoted message said:

Honesty compels me to mention one exception. Ryan Leech,
trials demo rider, runs an MX Comp on his bike.

I believe he's sponsored by Zoke... he kinda has to use
it.

I wouldn't go that far. It's more that Leech really does a
kind of very freeriding/street form of trials, and for that
riding a suspension fork makes sense. The Marzocchi
sponsorship almost certainly came about via Norco. He's very
closely connected to Norco (their design office would be
less than 10 miles from his house), is credited as a major
design resource for the frame he rides. Norco in turn uses
Zokes on every serious bike they produce, resorting to
Suntour parts only on the cheapest machines.

Believe it or not, Marzocchi does make a rigid fork, though:

(original Marzocchi.com URL deleted to spare your sanity. It
was 521 characters)

tinyurl.com2n9d4Open ↗

BMX only, max rider weight 145 pounds for this particular
one. Wouldn't fit on Leech's bike.

Bet I could beat him in a time trial, though,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau said:

... Believe it or not, Marzocchi does make a rigid
fork, though:

(original Marzocchi.com URL deleted to spare your sanity.
It was 521 characters)

tinyurl.com2n9d4Open ↗

For those who prefer the actual URL: <marzocchi.-marzocchi.-Open ↗
com/template/detailSPAForks.asp?IDFolder=113&LN=UK&OEM=&mCO-
=ucmPhhfuuj%602%2FJoufsp2%21BTD%2D%21ucmPhhfuuj%2FJoufsp5%2-
1BTD&mCW=BOE%21ucmBooj%2FUftup2%21%3F%3E%21%283112%28%21BOE-
%21ucmPhhfuuj%2FCju2%21%3E%212%21BOE%21ucmPhhfuuj%2FUftup3%-
21%3E%21%28FYQFSU%2131035%28&mCJ=%21JOOFS%21KPJO%21ucmPhhfu-
uj%21BT%21ucmBooj%21%21PO%21ucmPhhfuuj%2FJoufsp2%21%3E%21uc-
mBooj%2FJEPhhfuup%21%21JOOFS%21KPJO%21ucmPhhfuuj%21ucmPhhfu-
uj%602%21PO%21ucmPhhfuuj%2FJoufsp2%21%3E%21ucmPhhfuuj%602%2-
FJEPhhfuup%21&IDOggetto=2607>. 😉

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area