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Support For Hot Earth at Origin

Started by TomHendricks474 · · Last activity · 7 posts · 396 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 April 2004
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19 April 2004
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TomHendricks474
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  1. I think there is strongest support for a hot earth at the
    origin of life.

    1. Heavy volcanic activity would "bring chemical compounds
    to the surface that would otherwise not be found."
    2. The hotter it is (up to the end of liquid water at 100C)
    the faster the chemical reactions.
    3. The hotter, the faster the change and the quicker the
    origin would be and with zircons formed at 4.1-4.2 and
    life perhaps pushed back to 3.8 (West Greenland) there is
    little room left for life. Also this period seems hot. An
    origin in lower temp. would take too long and be too slow
    to fit the evidence.
    4. the Tm of both DNA and RNA is very high "what conditions
    would require this resistance?'
    5. "The total volume of the oceans ... passes through the
    hot basalt rock every eight million years." thus
    sterilizing the ocean. That suggests that there was not
    unlimited time for life to begin
    6. "the luminosity of the Sun presumably was only three
    quarters of what it is today, but the greenhouse effect
    of the CO2 rich atmosphere must have overcompensated for
    this difference." Also methane and even water vapor have
    greenhouse effect. Plus the hot earth was radiating heat.
    7. "meteorite impacts must have heated most of the seawater
    to boiling and saturated the atmosphere with dust for
    millenia."

    and these quotes

    "Both researchers (Wachtershauser, Stetter) agree in
    thinking that the origin of life happened in a rather hot
    environment. As I will explain, certain features of the
    family tree of life support this... The observation that
    hyperthermophilic adaptation is particularly widespread
    among archaebacteria led some researchers to believe that
    adaptation to extreme conditions is not a feature acquired
    during the course of evolution, but one that most of today's
    organisms have lost in the course of an evolution away from
    hyperthermophilic ancestors

    Evidence for this... comes not ony from the archae bacterial
    domain. If one screens the entire tree of life for
    thermophiles, one tends to find them in the deepest
    branches" (though as the author points out this only takes
    us back to the last commmon ancestor)

    Quotes from Life on The Edge, M. Gross.

    If true then prebiotic life was those chemicals and that
    chemical system which survived this hot environment - and
    through that heat cycle was forced into novel variants that
    allowed it to continue and to continue to improve its
    ability to adapt to that environment.

  2. I'll add another point. When the earth cooled the rains
    began and the seas formed. Yet it is obvious that the water
    came from water vapor (100C+) not melting ice. It had to be
    hot and it had to be near 100C the boiling point of water.

  3. [email hidden] wrote or quoted:

    Quoted message said:

    Evidence for this... comes not ony from the archae
    bacterial domain. If one screens the entire tree of life
    for thermophiles, one tends to find them in the deepest
    branches" (though as the author points out this only takes
    us back to the last commmon ancestor)

    Which tells us the earth was bombed back into the dark ages
    long ago by meteoric impacts - and the only things that
    survived lived around deep undersea vents.

    Interesting, perhaps - but rather irrelevant if you are
    trying to look any further back than the last such event.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden] Remove
    lock to reply.

  4. << > Evidence for this... comes not ony from the archae

    Quoted message said:

    bacterial domain. If one screens the entire tree of life
    for thermophiles, one tends to find them in the deepest
    branches" (though as the author points out this only takes
    us back to the last commmon ancestor)

    TT Which tells us the earth was bombed back into the dark
    ages long ago by meteoric impacts - and the only things that
    survived lived around deep undersea vents.

    Interesting, perhaps - but rather irrelevant if you are
    trying to look any further back than the last such event.

    TH But that brings up real problems. When do you think
    life began? This from a recent bio textbook: "The more we
    learn about earth's early history the more likely it seems
    that earth's first organisms emerged and lived at very hot
    temp. Rubble from the forming solar system slammed into
    early earth from 4.6-3.8 bya, keeping the surface molten
    hot. As the bombardment slowed down, temp dropped. By
    about 3.8 bya ocean temperatures are thought to be dropped
    to a hot 49-88C."

    That suggests for me that life IF started between 3.8 or
    earlier was in a hot environment. If not how do you explain
    the Issua evidence? How do you explain the high Tm for RNA
    and DNA. How do you explain life starting up so quickly.
    Also the bombardment was not all or nothing. It would have
    been decreasing in intensity throughout that period IMO.

    I hope your answer is not panspermia, because there is
    strong evidence against that too. (And even if panspermia
    were true - and it is not - the RNA would have to have been
    selected THERE - wherever there could be - in a hot temp. So
    we're back to square one.)

    Comment?

    --
    __________
    |im |yler timtyler.orgtimtyler.org [email hidden] Remove
    lock to reply.

  5. "TomHendricks474" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestissä
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'll add another point. When the earth cooled the rains
    began and the seas formed. Yet it is obvious that the
    water came from water vapor (100C+) not melting ice. It
    had to be hot and it had to be near 100C the boiling point
    of water.

    You are right Tom, but 100 C is a limit only when air (gas-)
    pressure is one present athmosphere 1 bar or 100 000 Pa.
    When the earth cooled firs time, all water and a lot of
    methane were in the athmosphere and the air pressure was far
    above the critical pressure for water 15,86 bar. The first
    liquid water was formed on the poles when the local
    temperature dropped below the trippel point of water +374,2
    C. So the water based life could start in any temperature
    below this and probably in a much higher temperature than
    +100C. As surface pressure and temperatures dropped
    cradually only those species that could live in lower
    temperatures could live on the surface, but there is still
    life today deep under rock and near deep sea hot vents tha
    can survive higher temperatures than +100C.

    Antti Järvi [email hidden] delete forename when
    answering

  6. "Antti Jarvi" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestissä
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "TomHendricks474" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti
    viestissä "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'll add another point. When the earth cooled the rains
    began and the seas formed. Yet it is obvious that the
    water came from water vapor (100C+) not melting ice. It
    had to be hot and it had to be near 100C the boiling
    point of water.

    You are right Tom, but 100 C is a limit only when air (gas-
    ) pressure is


    one

    Quoted message said:

    present athmosphere 1 bar or 100 000 Pa. When the earth
    cooled firs time, all water and a lot of methane were in
    the athmosphere and the air


    pressure

    Quoted message said:

    was far above the critical pressure for water 15,86 bar.

    CORRECTION: SHOULD BE 221 bar NOT 15,86 bar. I AM SORRY
    Antti Jarvi

    Quoted message said:

    The first liquid water was formed on the poles when the
    local temperature


    dropped below the

    Quoted message said:

    trippel point of water +374,2 C. So the water based life
    could start in


    any

    Quoted message said:

    temperature below this and probably in a much higher
    temperature than


    +100C.

    Quoted message said:

    As surface pressure and temperatures dropped cradually
    only those species that could live in lower temperatures
    could live on the surface, but there is still life today
    deep under rock and near deep sea hot vents tha can
    survive higher temperatures than +100C.

    Antti Järvi [email hidden] delete forename when
    answering

  7. "Antti Jarvi" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestissä
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "TomHendricks474" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti
    viestissä "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'll add another point. When the earth cooled the rains
    began and the seas formed. Yet it is obvious that the
    water came from water vapor (100C+) not melting ice. It
    had to be hot and it had to be near 100C the boiling
    point of water.

    You are right Tom, but 100 C is a limit only when air (gas-
    ) pressure is


    one

    Quoted message said:

    present athmosphere 1 bar or 100 000 Pa. When the earth
    cooled firs time, all water and a lot of methane were in
    the athmosphere and the air


    pressure

    Quoted message said:

    was far above the critical pressure for water 221 bar. The
    first liquid water was formed on the poles when the local
    temperature dropped below the

    Another correction PLEASE READ "CRITICAL TEMPERATURE" NOT
    trippel point sorry Antti Järvi

    Quoted message said:

    point of water +374,2 C. So the water based life could
    start in any
    temperature below this and probably in a much higher
    temperature than


    +100C.

    Quoted message said:

    As surface pressure and temperatures dropped cradually
    only those species that could live in lower temperatures
    could live on the surface, but there is still life today
    deep under rock and near deep sea hot vents tha can
    survive higher temperatures than +100C.

    Antti Järvi [email hidden] delete forename when
    answering

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