Super Prestige Results

?? 18th, 27th, 28th and 35th on 36 finishers and that on a track that
wasn't even heavy ??

Kenny

Tom said:

USA represents pretty well in Super Presitge race today. Trebon rolled
in 18th. Not too shabby. Results can be seen here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/cross.php?id=cross/2004/dec04/SPDiegem04

Hey dumbass,

18th place for a pro is called LOSING. How many times do I have to tell
you people that this isn't 7th grade gym class.

They should have stayed home.

Magilla

But when you are racing against the best in the world, 18th ain't too
shabby, as mentioned before. Yeah, they didn't win, but I'm betting
you wouldn't have even been in the mix, and I'm also pretty certain
that Mr. Trebon more than likely had to start the race in the back.
You're right, this isn't 7th grade gym class, it's the world's best
cross riders lining up against you. If it was 7th grade gym class,
I'm betting they would win. Give these guys a little slack, they're
trying their best, and doing their best against the best in the world.
I just thought for a few minutes I might talk about actual bike racing
on here, instead of the usual drivel we all talk about.

Tom

Tom said:

But when you are racing against the best in the world, 18th ain't too
shabby, as mentioned before.

I know that many Americans have bought into lowered expectations (like,
52% of them) but this still seems a tad excessive. Perhaps you should have
titled your post "Mission Accomplished."

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom said:

But when you are racing against the best in the world, 18th ain't too
shabby, as mentioned before.

I know that many Americans have bought into lowered expectations (like,
52% of them) but this still seems a tad excessive. Perhaps you should have
titled your post "Mission Accomplished."

Well, Robert, most races don't end up with 15 first-place finishers, 28 in
second, 31 in third, and another sixty just off the podium.

I recall one tenth-place finish that made me very happy, and other wins that
were not so vivid. In my club rides (which include 2 former FR champions,
another six former pros, severak current Elite-1), I am content just to
finish with the pack.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

Tom said:

But when you are racing against the best in the world, 18th ain't too
shabby, as mentioned before. Yeah, they didn't win, but I'm betting
you wouldn't have even been in the mix, and I'm also pretty certain
that Mr. Trebon more than likely had to start the race in the back.
You're right, this isn't 7th grade gym class, it's the world's best
cross riders lining up against you. If it was 7th grade gym class,
I'm betting they would win. Give these guys a little slack, they're
trying their best, and doing their best against the best in the world.
I just thought for a few minutes I might talk about actual bike racing
on here, instead of the usual drivel we all talk about.

Tom

Your mentality is that of an amateur. For a professional rider, 18th
place is called losing. You'll never hear an NFL football team saying,
"Yeah, we lost, but we lost to one one of the best teams in the world,
so we feel really good about losing the game today."

Isn't Trebon a pro cyclo-cross rider too?

So, no, I'm not going to cut him any slack. You people in here are a
bunch of mindless cheerleaders and you look at the sport like a [censored]
instead of how a Vince Lombardi would.

If Lance got 18th in the Tour de France, he would learn how to make a
noose to hang himself in his garage.

If 18th place makes you happy, then go watch a parochial high school
basketball game with a bunch of white kids on the court.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla said:

If Lance got 18th in the Tour de France, he would learn how to make a
noose to hang himself in his garage.

That would make for how many nooses at the end of any of the last six
Tours? Or does anyone that wins a stage get some slack, no pun
intended? Or maybe if they are on the team that puts someone in first.
So we've got the carnage down to only between 27 and maybe 90,
depending on how you want to slice the bread. Maybe you like the
sprinters that take a couple of stages and anyone that was in the
final train, or maybe you don't. Could be six to twelve fewer nooses,
depending. If we let any team that had a stage winner in the Tour, its
only maybe 27, but that is awful generous. Maybe we need to hold it to
teams with two victories or better. Then we're creeping rapidly toward
90.

Actually, if I read the interviews in the mags correctly, the pros
race a lot of races that they have no expectations of winning and do
it for a variety or reasons, ranging from conditioning to the sponsor
wants them there anyway. That would be because they are pros.

And I'm guessing that any NFL pro receiver that ended up in the top 20
in pass receptions will be mentioning it a lot the next time contracts
come up. I'm also guessing that Peyton won't be the only quarterback
not getting a release in the off-season.

Actually, I think you're the one that sounds more like a soccer parent
that wants to know why the 17-year old kid coaching can't make their
Johnny a winner every time. Amateurs...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>

Quoted message said:

Your mentality is that of an amateur. For a professional rider, 18th
place is called losing. You'll never hear an NFL football team saying,
"Yeah, we lost, but we lost to one one of the best teams in the world, so
we feel really good about losing the game today."

Like the 49ers' Kevan Barlow celebrating yesterday after scoring a touchdown
so they only lost by 34 points instead of 41?

MagillaGorilla said:

Tom said:

But when you are racing against the best in the world, 18th ain't

too

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shabby, as mentioned before. Yeah, they didn't win, but I'm

betting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you wouldn't have even been in the mix, and I'm also pretty

certain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that Mr. Trebon more than likely had to start the race in the back.
You're right, this isn't 7th grade gym class, it's the world's

best

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cross riders lining up against you. If it was 7th grade gym class,
I'm betting they would win. Give these guys a little slack,

they're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trying their best, and doing their best against the best in the

world.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just thought for a few minutes I might talk about actual bike

racing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on here, instead of the usual drivel we all talk about.

Tom

Your mentality is that of an amateur. For a professional rider, 18th

Quoted message said:

place is called losing. You'll never hear an NFL football team

saying,

Quoted message said:

"Yeah, we lost, but we lost to one one of the best teams in the

world,

Quoted message said:

so we feel really good about losing the game today."

Isn't Trebon a pro cyclo-cross rider too?

So, no, I'm not going to cut him any slack. You people in here are a
bunch of mindless cheerleaders and you look at the sport like a

[censored]

Quoted message said:

instead of how a Vince Lombardi would.

If Lance got 18th in the Tour de France, he would learn how to make a

Quoted message said:

noose to hang himself in his garage.

If 18th place makes you happy, then go watch a parochial high school
basketball game with a bunch of white kids on the court.

Magilla

Actually I am an amateur racer, since I know my own limitations, and
know that I don't have the time to become a pro bike racer. Would I
like to be? Sure, it could be a dream, but one that I'll have to
dispense with for the time being, as unfortunately I have too many
bills to pay.

As mentioned before, Trebon, first really big race (cross race) in
Europe nabs an 18th place. Could you do that? I'm thinking, umm,
no. I'm sure you wouldn't make it through the first few laps before
they pulled your ass from the race itself.

Actually, I have heard interviews with professional sports teams in
the US that have said just what you mentioned. They have mentioned
things like, "we came in here prepared, but we were beat by a better
team today" or some such nonsense like that. It's true. It happens.
There are a lot of professional bike racers that don't win one race in
their entire careers. Yet, they continue. Why can't we cheer on one
of our own (American citizen) who has made a break into the typically
Belgian and Dutch world of big time cyclocross across the pond? Why
are you such a hater, and can't cheer on a good performance by someone
who has worked hard to get there? I just don't understand your
rationale about things. Oh, I know, you're a moron. Well, I can't
say that for certain, but just from your previous posts, I can assume
so.

Tom

Tom said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Tom said:

But when you are racing against the best in the world, 18th ain't

too

<snip>

Quoted message said:

As mentioned before, Trebon, first really big race (cross race) in
Europe nabs an 18th place. Could you do that? I'm thinking, umm,
no. I'm sure you wouldn't make it through the first few laps before
they pulled your ass from the race itself.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Tom

No. I couldn't do that. That's why I'm not a pro bike racer. What
does my performance have to do with Trebon's poor performance? According
to your gay logic, Phil Liggett is also not allowed to criticize a pro
since he can't ride like they can.

As I stated before, 18th place sucks unless you're talking about the
Forbes list.

Thanks,

Magilla

In article <[email hidden]>,

Curtis L. Russell said:

MagillaGorilla said:

If Lance got 18th in the Tour de France, he would learn how to make a
noose to hang himself in his garage.

That would make for how many nooses at the end of any of the last six
Tours? Or does anyone that wins a stage get some slack, no pun
intended?

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/how_long_to_hang_somebody/dt21_22.h
tml

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

MagillaGorilla said:

18th place sucks.

Communist,

18th Place is great, if the sponsor feels he has got his money's worth.

--
Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/

Sandy said:

I recall one tenth-place finish that made me very happy, and other wins
that were not so vivid.

And it's quite possible that the American cyclocrossers were very happy
with their 18th, 27th, 28th, and 35th finishes (out of 36); however, my
claim is that this is less about Trebon's finish than the OP's claim that
the USA presented itself well. First, it's unseemly; second, it's
delusional.

Quoted message said:

In my club rides (which include 2 former FR
champions, another six former pros, severak current Elite-1), I am
content just to finish with the pack.

ACBB?

--
Still a proud member of the reality-based community.

Robert Chung said:

the OP's claim that the USA presented itself well. First, it's
unseemly; second, it's delusional.

He said represented. If the presentation was what could be expected,
wasn't the USA represented just fine?

--
Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/

Ewoud Dronkert said:

MagillaGorilla said:

18th place sucks.

Communist,

18th Place is great, if the sponsor feels he has got his money's worth.

What possible value could 18th place give to a sponsor?

Magilla

"MagillaGorilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

MagillaGorilla said:

18th place sucks.

Communist,

18th Place is great, if the sponsor feels he has got his money's worth.

What possible value could 18th place give to a sponsor?

Being mentioned in rbr of course! Sales must have soared to unprecedented
heights!

Benjo

MagillaGorilla said:

What possible value could 18th place give to a sponsor?

It'd probably not be the placing but the exposure during the race or in
reports afterwards, like the photos on CN.

--
Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Robert Chung said:

the OP's claim that the USA presented itself well. First, it's
unseemly; second, it's delusional.

He said represented. If the presentation was what could be expected,
wasn't the USA represented just fine?

You saying Japan represented well?

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Robert Chung said:

the OP's claim that the USA presented itself well. First, it's
unseemly; second, it's delusional.

He said represented. If the presentation was what could be

expected,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wasn't the USA represented just fine?

You saying Japan represented well?

I think that the US did represent well, especially in the world of
cyclocross, which as we all know very well, is dominated at the
top-most levels by the Belgians and the Dutch right behind them. J.
Page has been doing a great job cracking the top 20 of the largest and
most prestigious cross races in Europe this year, and Trebon and
company did pretty good for some American boys without much exposure to
the top level of racing in Europe that the other guys in the race have
had week in and week out. So yes, I think by their placings, they
did alright representing their teams, and the US. Take a look back
just a few years ago, nobody from the US was hitting the top 20, or
even getting close to it, in the big cross races in Europe. And this
might be quibbling about things, but there were 48 starters in that
Superprestige race, not 36. 36 was the number that finished.

My problem with Magilla, is that he's basically saying that 18th place
is [censored], and not worth the effort. I don't have a problem with him
criticizing racing in general, because we can all do that from the
comfort of our homes and computers. I'm just looking for him to say
something more along the lines of, "18th is kind of crappy, but
considering they've never been to Europe before, that's not too bad".
Which is what I'm trying to say. I would love to see them make the
podium, or top 10, which I think J.P. has done this season, but at
least let them get their feet wet first.

Page finished 10th the next day. Is that a bad result? Is that [censored]
as well?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/cross.php?id=cross/2004/dec04/sylvester04

I'm just trying to give some recognition where it might be due. I'm
hoping these guys might be able to un-cork something great at World's.
I'm not delusional in thinking that any one of the USA team members is
going to win that race, but what if??

Tom