Suggestions for power training

ruleof72 said:

I am just about ready to make the jump up to training with power. Before I spend the $$$'s I would like some feedback/confirmation to make sure I get the most I can out of the investment.

I own a power meter and I train with power, so I'm not biased against the idea; but, unless you have $1500 or so burning a hole in your pocket, I'd have to say that you'd do just as well with a heart montior, sensible training and keeping a log, either written or on your PC.

Training smart is what will make you faster and while a power meter will give you more data (than you need), it won't make you any smarter.

ruleof72 said:

My question is can I really make good use of the Powertap, especially outside since I live in a rolling hills (Atlanta) area and all local rides for me involve lots of start/stop with hills that are short. Can I really train effectively using a Powertap? I have a Kurt Kinetic trainer which helps for the indoor sessions.

Any feedback?

If you already own a KK, you can probably make due with their power computer ($50). I think it works by measuring wheel speed and you have to make sure you tighten it the same amount each time. Do the calibration as detailed in the thread. http://www.cyclingforums.com/t386350.html

But since you have a limited amount of time, and you want to become competitive in 4/5 crits (also my goal), using the KK is the most time-effective way to train.

My schedule looks like:
Mon: rest
Tues: L6: 2 minute intervals/4-5 rest, repeat (1 hr)
Wed: L5: 4 to 5 minute intervals, equal rest, repeat. (1hr)
Thurs: L4: 2 x 20 minutes (1hr)
.Fri: Easy recovery.
Sat/Sun: race, or L3/4, outside (1.5-2 hrs each)
If you only have an hour on the weekends, then keep it as intense as possible

The L6 will help you deal with the surges in racing, and the L4/L5 will improve your FTP.

In this way you could get ready on 6-7 hrs/wk.

workingguy said:

But since you have a limited amount of time, and you want to become competitive in 4/5 crits (also my goal), using the KK is the most time-effective way to train.

I agree with this. If you do most of your riding in the local rides, you're probably not maximizing your FTP, which is a good indictator of fitness. You would probably benefit by doing longer sustained efforts at high intensity, which either a power meter or KK power computer would help guide you.

-Eric

Bullseye_blam said:

I agree with this. If you do most of your riding in the local rides, you're probably not maximizing your FTP, which is a good indictator of fitness. You would probably benefit by doing longer sustained efforts at high intensity, which either a power meter or KK power computer would help guide you.

-Eric

My thoughts exactly. I do have a powertap, so I know that in group rides, most of the time is spent noodling at < 150W. Then if there's a hill then power jumps to 400W for too long and I'm OTB. With an indoor trainer, or a flat road with no stops, you can do exactly the amount of effort that will help you improve. Most of my training is indoors. To keep it real, I do catch the occasional group ride or just noodling with the kid on the trail.

workingguy said:

My thoughts exactly. I do have a powertap, so I know that in group rides, most of the time is spent noodling at < 150W. Then if there's a hill then power jumps to 400W for too long and I'm OTB. With an indoor trainer, or a flat road with no stops, you can do exactly the amount of effort that will help you improve. Most of my training is indoors. To keep it real, I do catch the occasional group ride or just noodling with the kid on the trail.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Given my local ride options it really does seem that getting any kind of repeatable work done outside will be rough. So, I found a Kurt power computer on ebay that should help me keep track of power for now. I do have a copy of "traing and racing..." so that will help me get started. I can save my pennies and get a nice Powertap/software later in the year to use over the winter and into next year. Until then I will use the outdoor rides as opportunities to get some tempo/recovery work in.

Ergoman said:

Training smart is what will make you faster and while a power meter will give you more data (than you need), it won't make you any smarter.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Power meter data has greatly advanced my knowledge of the physics and physiology of cycling. I will never forget my first ride with a PM. I learned more in three hours than I had learned in the previous three years.

John

"Training smart is what will make you faster and while a power meter will give you more data (than you need), it won't make you any smarter."

john979 said:

I strongly disagree with this statement. Power meter data has greatly advanced my knowledge of the physics and physiology of cycling. I will never forget my first ride with a PM. I learned more in three hours than I had learned in the previous three years.

John

My point is that the information a power meter gives is worthless unless it can be used to improve performance. Most people already have more information than they need. They just don't make intelligent use of it.

Did your IQ increase after you used a power meter?

The one thing that I get from my PowerTap that I never get from anything else is reality. So yeah, for me riding with power data was the day that my real education began.

Ergoman said:

I own a power meter and I train with power, so I'm not biased against the idea; but, unless you have $1500 or so burning a hole in your pocket, I'd have to say that you'd do just as well with a heart montior, sensible training and keeping a log, either written or on your PC.

Training smart is what will make you faster and while a power meter will give you more data (than you need), it won't make you any smarter.

Ergoman,

Having a power meter allows me to train much more efficiently, as well as effectively, than what I used to do with just an HR monitor.

If you think that an HR monitor is just as good as a power meter, it is obvious you are not using the power meter to it's best advantage...

Might I suggest reading this forum some more and/or enlisting the help of someone that understands training with power a little better?

Jim

otb4evr said:

Ergoman,

Having a power meter allows me to train much more efficiently, as well as effectively, than what I used to do with just an HR monitor.

If you think that an HR monitor is just as good as a power meter, it is obvious you are not using the power meter to it's best advantage...

Might I suggest reading this forum some more and/or enlisting the help of someone that understands training with power a little better?

Jim

Jim,

The OP is 43 and considering racing as a Cat 5. If, to a rider with those aspirations, you think a $1500 power meter is $1450 more beneficial than a $50 heart monitor and smart execution of a good training plan then I suggest you need to quit reading this forum so much and get out and race in the real world.

Ergoman said:

Jim,

The OP is 43 and considering racing as a Cat 5. If, to a rider with those aspirations, you think a $1500 power meter is $1450 more beneficial than a $50 heart monitor and smart execution of a good training plan then I suggest you need to quit reading this forum so much and get out and race in the real world.

Yeah, but I'm an analytical and competitive 43😄 I realize that I (or very many of the rest of us for that matter) don't really "need" a power meter to get results but I do think it will help me do a better job of tracking and adjusting my training as I improve. I was a competitive runner in HS and College. I've always been able to push myself and strive to improve my abilities. But, I have never been the most naturally gifted. Most of what I gained was through continual effort over a long time. I want to get the most out of my limited training time and if I can afford to take advantage of a tool to help me improve I will do that, within reason.

Now, back to training so I can be a competitive Cat 5🙂

Ergoman said:

Jim,

The OP is 43 and considering racing as a Cat 5. If, to a rider with those aspirations, you think a $1500 power meter is $1450 more beneficial than a $50 heart monitor and smart execution of a good training plan then I suggest you need to quit reading this forum so much and get out and race in the real world.

What out in the real world where the people with power meters are getting the best bang for their buck training wise by learning from each ride. Every ride with a power meter is like a lab test. Yesterday I got to find out if my FTP had gone up or down after our Track Nationals. I know that I as at a peak for Nationals because I was hitting new 2-3min peak power PBs. If I had gone by feel ([censored]), HR (high) or ave speed (low due to lousy weather) I may never have bothered.

Training by heart rate for anything above L3 is a waste of time. Power is still better in the lower levels anyway. Can you tell me what heart rate, or lactate level, RPE or ave speed this years TdF champion will need to attain to win? I can tell you how much power he will need to produce!

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

If your finances allow, I would get one and you don't need to spend 1500. An "entry" level PT can be picked up for around half of that if you look around. I don't think that's exorbitant, if one considers that the bikes many 4/5 riders are on could be under a Protour rider... Regardless, any training plan has to be intelligent but a pm can, I think, really add to that regardless of your category.

While my time isn't as limited as yours (I can typically put in 10 -- 15 hours per week) I use a powermeter because my time is limited. Like Fergie mentioned, I have found since switching from traditional Hr monitoring that I get the maximum for my training hour by using a powermeter, whether the workout is indoors or out. A couple of random points that I also think are helpful, esp. for someone at the Cat 4/5 level: 1) You mention that your weight has stayed stable, well a pm can help with weight management/loss as calories can be easily tracked; and, 2) compared to heart rate, a pm download provide visual feedback as to the effort required for a particular type of event or course. Just my 02 . . .

JIM WV said:

If your finances allow, I would get one and you don't need to spend 1500. An "entry" level PT can be picked up for around half of that if you look around. I don't think that's exorbitant, if one considers that the bikes many 4/5 riders are on could be under a Protour rider... Regardless, any training plan has to be intelligent but a pm can, I think, really add to that regardless of your category.

I agree, you don't have to spend a "ton" in order to get a power meter. I am getting a nice powertap SL on a custom wheel for less than $1000. You are also correct about the bikes you see in racing. Many of them are well over $3000. I have a 3+ yr old Specialized Allez Elite that handles great, is fairly comfortable on long rides, and is durable. I have a lot of miles on it and the only thing I've upgraded is the wheels, which only cost me $250. When I got into cycling seriously I remember lots of people saying "it's not the bike, it's the engine". I know that my engine could use some improving and I figure a power meter will help me improve more than a new carbon fiber/unobtanium framed bike (not that I wouldn't like one🙂 ). I don't begrudge people for having nice bikes, I just choose to spend my $$'s a little differently.

My powertap originally went on a old Reynold 531 bike with 7402 series Dura Ace and Bar End shifters. The rear drop out had been brazed back together after cracking. The Powertap would have tripled the price of the bike but I was training with power. Havent looked back.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach