Suggestions for improving on the Kew crit hill

DaveB said:

Seeing I paid my membership for HCC on the weekend I'll probably now try
and go in the crits regularly. But to save the embarassment of being
dropped early I really need to improve my speed up that damned hill. I
was thinking of trying to get down there for a regular weekday practice
session and use it as an interval session, ride hard up the hill and
recover around the rest of the circuit. And concentrating on spending
more time in the saddle up the hill, rather than leaping out once the
corner is cleared and grinding away to the top. Anyyone got any other
suggestions?

DaveB

if its any consolation your at about the same stage i was 12 months ago!

ride more often!
r__ less often (no, that is not my bias) as your climb-trial times have gone backwards since you resumed it!

spin more! you'll feel fresher longer if you go down one/two gears and spin faster. maybe ride the SS more to give you tht spinnin feeling 😄
maybe even commute on that sucker?

Come out of that corner and get on a wheel asap

maybe pick one bod to follow/stick-to so you have less to think about?

"DaveB" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

recover around the rest of the circuit. And concentrating on spending more
time in the saddle up the hill, rather than leaping out once the corner is
cleared and grinding away to the top. Anyyone got any other suggestions?

Gear selection is a big factor given the hairpin washes off a good deal of
speed... it is even more crucial if there is any acceleration by the group
on this part of the course.... My first few races I sat most of the time up
the hill.. but now I feel more comfortable out of the saddle for at least
20m after the corner to both pickup speed and stretch my legs...

cheers,
GPL

DaveB said:

Seeing I paid my membership for HCC on the weekend I'll probably now try
and go in the crits regularly. But to save the embarassment of being
dropped early I really need to improve my speed up that damned hill. I
was thinking of trying to get down there for a regular weekday practice
session and use it as an interval session, ride hard up the hill and
recover around the rest of the circuit. And concentrating on spending
more time in the saddle up the hill, rather than leaping out once the
corner is cleared and grinding away to the top. Anyyone got any other
suggestions?

DaveB

How long is the hill? If it's short enough to sprint, then sprint! Otherwise it's an ITT

Ritch

ritcho said:

How long is the hill? If it's short enough to sprint, then sprint! Otherwise it's an ITT

Ritch

Its about 300m (?) with a 12m rise. coming straight out of a hairpin.
I have never looked at the speedo when comin out of the corner but Im guessing most are doing anywhere between 10kph(grrrrr) and 30kph (Agrade-showoffs!)

flyingdutch said:

Its about 300m (?) with a 12m rise. coming straight out of a hairpin.
I have never looked at the speedo when comin out of the corner but Im guessing most are doing anywhere between 10kph(grrrrr) and 30kph (Agrade-showoffs!)

4% grade I reckon is somewhere 25-30km/h at a high-ish intensity. This means a little under a minute for this effort...

My strategy for such a hill following a sharp corner is to get to the corner first. DaveB, you need to be first into that corner - first into the corner followed by a hard interval effort and then a little rest at the top...

Ritch

flyingdutch said:

if its any consolation your at about the same stage i was 12 months ago!

ride more often!
r__ less often (no, that is not my bias) as your climb-trial times have gone backwards since you resumed it!

spin more! you'll feel fresher longer if you go down one/two gears and spin faster. maybe ride the SS more to give you tht spinnin feeling 😄
maybe even commute on that sucker?

Come out of that corner and get on a wheel asap

maybe pick one bod to follow/stick-to so you have less to think about?

not trying to cause grief, but I dont see any reason why running, should hinder riding all that much, the only way it might do that is it actually takes cycling time away from you.

but you can kind of run to help your cycling, in particular interval sessions up hills, will help you build strength, when running flats try to stride out a bit more, I have found over time, striding out is very similar to riding a largish gear on my road bike.

and you can even shorten your stride and pick up your tempo, similar to spinning on a bike.

OR

ride a flat criterium course!!!! 🙂

"ritcho" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

4% grade I reckon is somewhere 25-30km/h at a high-ish intensity. This
means a little under a minute for this effort...

Yep, spot on... C grade 'hill' pace is anywhere from 27-32 on a normal
lap... Not sure about surges or the last lap, not looking at my trip
computer at that stage...

cheers,
GPL

"ritcho" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

4% grade I reckon is somewhere 25-30km/h at a high-ish intensity. This
means a little under a minute for this effort...

Yep, spot on... C grade 'hill' pace is anywhere from 27-32 on a normal
lap... Not sure about surges or the last lap, not looking at my trip
computer at that stage...

cheers,
GPL

MikeyOz said:

not trying to cause grief, but I dont see any reason why running, should hinder riding all that much...

you-trouble-maker 😄
r__ning uses predominantly the back of your legs, Cycling the front.
The only r__ners who seem to cross over well are the 'stair-climbers'
who are using their quads, ie the front of their legs

MikeyOz said:

OR

ride a flat criterium course!!!! 🙂

EXACTLY!
i spent about a dozen crits at hilly Kew course; best result 5th.
And coachster kept hinting i should try a flatty...
went to StK for 3 thirds, then Glenvale for a third and a win.

The funny thing is the same* average speed is the same at Kew with a hill as it is at StK/Glenvale without!!!

*D-grade at least 🙄

GPLama said:

Yep, spot on... C grade 'hill' pace is anywhere from 27-32 on a normal
lap... Not sure about surges or the last lap, not looking at my trip
computer at that stage...

cheers,
GPL

not sure in a race but in some of the trainin drills I have done up that bit i have hit the line doing 42kph, but that's without the race-ey bit before 🙄

I'll stick up for r*nning as well, it won't make you any better a cyclist but mostly it shouldn't hurt, particularly not at this level. And if you have any weight to lose I've found that its the most effective way to do that (which means uphill faster too!)

As to improving on the hill, find something of similar length but longer (maybe 20/30%) and do intervals, find something of similar length but steeper and do intervals. After that you won't even notice the hill.

PiledHigher

ritcho said:

My strategy for such a hill following a sharp corner is to get to the
corner first. DaveB, you need to be first into that corner - first into
the corner followed by a hard interval effort and then a little rest at
the top...

Ritch

me at the front? CHAMPAAAAAAAGNE comedy!!!

DaveB "have the ambo waiting at the top of the hill fellas"

ritcho said:

My strategy for such a hill following a sharp corner is to get to the
corner first. DaveB, you need to be first into that corner - first into
the corner followed by a hard interval effort and then a little rest at
the top...

Ritch

me at the front? CHAMPAAAAAAAGNE comedy!!!

DaveB "have the ambo waiting at the top of the hill fellas"

"PiledHigher" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

As to improving on the hill, find something of similar length but
longer (maybe 20/30%) and do intervals, find something of similar
length but steeper and do intervals. After that you won't even notice
the hill.

Yarra St (just off the boulie) comes in very close to same length, though it
is one steep strip.. 300m or so @ 11.5%... makes the crit track look like
all downhill, but it doesn't make it feel like it..

cheers,
GPL

"PiledHigher" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

As to improving on the hill, find something of similar length but
longer (maybe 20/30%) and do intervals, find something of similar
length but steeper and do intervals. After that you won't even notice
the hill.

Yarra St (just off the boulie) comes in very close to same length, though it
is one steep strip.. 300m or so @ 11.5%... makes the crit track look like
all downhill, but it doesn't make it feel like it..

cheers,
GPL

GPLama said:

"PiledHigher" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

As to improving on the hill, find something of similar length but
longer (maybe 20/30%) and do intervals, find something of similar
length but steeper and do intervals. After that you won't even notice
the hill.

Yarra St (just off the boulie) comes in very close to same length, though it
is one steep strip.. 300m or so @ 11.5%... makes the crit track look like
all downhill, but it doesn't make it feel like it..

cheers,
GPL

My favourite steep bit around here is Awaba St in Balmoral, Sydney. It's about 600m at about 12.5% average with the steep bit just near the end. Beautiful view behind as you climb, but a wall of asphalt in front!

Ouch!

Ritch

ritcho said:

flyingdutch said:

Its about 300m (?) with a 12m rise. coming straight out of a hairpin.
I have never looked at the speedo when comin out of the corner but Im
guessing most are doing anywhere between 10kph(grrrrr) and 30kph
(Agrade-showoffs!)

4% grade I reckon is somewhere 25-30km/h at a high-ish intensity. This
means a little under a minute for this effort...

My strategy for such a hill following a sharp corner is to get to the
corner first. DaveB, you need to be first into that corner - first into
the corner followed by a hard interval effort and then a little rest at
the top...

I'm with you up to the hard effort. The point of being at the front
is that you don't need to put in an effort - you'll still be hurting
the back of the bunch even if you just roll around it.

You can let the bunch soak up the hill, then roll past them on the
descent, and just keep on doing it, over & over. Sooner or later
the riders at the back will get shelled.

flyingdutch said:

Its about 300m (?) with a 12m rise. coming straight out of a hairpin.
I have never looked at the speedo when comin out of the corner but Im guessing most are doing anywhere between 10kph(grrrrr) and 30kph (Agrade-showoffs!)

When I've done some practice laps down there, I'm sure I ended up hitting 30 going around that corner, although I wasn't exactly smooth, and going a tad wide 🙄

quote='Bleve'ritcho said:

flyingdutch said:

Its about 300m (?) with a 12m rise. coming straight out of a hairpin.
I have never looked at the speedo when comin out of the corner but Im
guessing most are doing anywhere between 10kph(grrrrr) and 30kph
(Agrade-showoffs!)

4% grade I reckon is somewhere 25-30km/h at a high-ish intensity. This
means a little under a minute for this effort...

My strategy for such a hill following a sharp corner is to get to the
corner first. DaveB, you need to be first into that corner - first into
the corner followed by a hard interval effort and then a little rest at
the top...

I'm with you up to the hard effort. The point of being at the front
is that you don't need to put in an effort - you'll still be hurting
the back of the bunch even if you just roll around it.

You can let the bunch soak up the hill, then roll past them on the
descent, and just keep on doing it, over & over. Sooner or later
the riders at the back will get shelled.[/QUOTE]

Ha - I indulged a little by assuming a hard interval effort would leave the struggling rider towards the back of the pack by the top of the hill if he started near the front (better than gapping off the back when starting _from_ the back). I agree totally with your view 🙂

Ritch